Topic: Bioshock 1+2 -> Update: PC HD Remasters have some issues...

[MysterD]

Well, like I said, nothing stops piracy.  At best all they can do is make it somewhat inconvenient.  I thought Steam does a pretty good job with that, no?

Agreed. It does a pretty good job - way better than most. It does a good job of preventing piracy on day of release - but give it a small bit of tiime once somebody got their hands on the full game files (once the game is fully officially released), it'll eventually wind up cracked.

Best thing Steam has going on - it doesn't have any weird and stupid Steam-made DRM to make their customers avoid the game or go pirate the thing out of frustration. It really only cares about your one account and that's it, pretty much. Steam DRM doesn't do root-key, black-listing, or any other questionable measures. Steam DRM doesn't do install limits - as it cares about your one Steam account and that you can use your Steam game on any PC you feel.

Anything the publishers want to tact on for extra security measures - that's up to them. I think when the 3rd party publishers do that, adding extra Tages or Securom measures - it's pretty pointless myself. Steam's got a HUGE following now (over 70% of the PC digital distribution crowd, if you ask Brad Wardell) and many people basically tolerate it, for the most part. Adding extra DRM on a Steam version = Steam gamers just won't buy it upon release. And if they do buy a game from Steam, despite having extra DRM - it'll be cheap on one of those Steam cheap crazy sales (see STALKER: Clear Sky and X3: Terran Conflict, which both sold well w/ even during having Tages DRM w/ install limits during their cheap Steam sales - which were around $10 or less - oh, and X3TC did later have its Tages DRM w/ install limits removed at a later said date, in a patch/update).

EDIT:
Steam's supported in over 200 countries.

So, here's the other interesting thing about G4WL and XBL - it's only supported in 26 countries currently. So, if you buy a game from Steam and it has required G4WL support - and you ain't in any of those 26 countries or so - don't expect your MP features to work. You'll be stuck w/ only your SP portion of the game - if it has that. See the DIRT 2 PC boards on Steam w/ this thread in particular; Codemasters forums w/ this thread and also G4WL Forums on this thread, if you want to see some of that frustration...

[Quemaqua]

Cracking Steam games is slightly more inconvenient, but that's about it.  It's still fully doable to anyone with some common computing sense and an internet connection.

[MysterD]

Cracking Steam games is slightly more inconvenient, but that's about it.  It's still fully doable to anyone with some common computing sense and an internet connection.

Yeah - b/c even on a pre-load, you likely STILL won't have ALL the Steam files needed to even boot the game. You gotta' wait til release date when it does an update, until they give you the other files needed to even boot the game.

I think the other thing w/ Steam is - we *know* they have their crazy sales. So, Steam gamers in many instances won't mind waiting for their inevitable sales - and by that time, the game probably has been patched-up quite a bit. If it's something major huge and gamers have this "I must have this crack now" mentality like they did w/ say a Modern Warfare 2, then maybe gamers will pirate the Steam version.

Plus, I think Steam users also don't want to get hit w/ The Ban Stick from their Steam accounts, either...

[Quemaqua]

Let's just say that I don't think that's a worry due to extensive personal experience.  Though really, even if they did ban me I wouldn't care.  I have legit games I've bought that never worked right that nobody would ever offer any support for, yet my... alternative copies... that I acquired worked just fine.  And there are still people who insist Steam isn't the problem.  How cute.

[MysterD]

Let's just say that I don't think that's a worry due to extensive personal experience.  Though really, even if they did ban me I wouldn't care.  I have legit games I've bought that never worked right that nobody would ever offer any support for, yet my... alternative copies... that I acquired worked just fine.  And there are still people who insist Steam isn't the problem.  How cute.

Did you ever get a Steam-less copy of Killing Floor that actually worked for you?

[MysterD]

No LAN support and No Dedicated Servers for MP portion of Bioshock 2 PC.

[idolminds]

I'm sure the three people that were looking forward to multiplayer Bioshock are going to be crushed.

[Quemaqua]

The whole 2 of them?

[iPPi]

I was not even aware there was going to be MP support in Bioshock 2.

[MysterD]

The whole 2 of them?

Yeah, Idol and Que.

[Quemaqua]

I was not even aware there was going to be MP support in Bioshock 2.

Exactly.

[iPPi]

Launch Trailer

The game does seem somewhat interesting.  I mean it does look and play (from what I've seen in videos) very much like its predecessor.  That's not necessarily a bad thing.  That said, I probably won't pick this up anytime soon.

[MysterD]

Elizabeth Tobey of 2K unboxes the Bioshock 2 - Special Edition.

Very nice Special Edition, I must say.
Since I'm waiting on this game and all, I might just wait for a good price drop on the SE.

BTW, Uber-Edition looks cool...hehe.

[iPPi]

IGN gives it 9.1

It appears the MP, while fun, is mostly forgettable.  That is not surprising since it feels that the MP is just tacked onto this game, given its predecessor's lack of an MP component altogether.  Overall, I think it's analogous to the Metroid Prime and the Metroid Prime 2 that had MP.  That said, it does appear the MP component is actually somewhat robust since it does have a progression system like Modern Warfare.

Overall, it seems that it's basically the same game, but a different story with drastically different characters. 

I'm somewhat interested, but there is no way in hell I'm going to pay full price for this game.  I'll wait for it to come down in price before buying it.

[K-man]

A big part of me would like to have the CE extras. 

[MysterD]

A big part of me would like to have the CE extras. 

Same here.
It looks really sweet.

It's as if these game companies are making all these big-profile games w/ CE's - and man, a lot of the CE's lately look like the version to get.

[Pugnate]

Just saw the video review.

I am confused because I thought this was supposed to be a prequel?

And didn't we kill EVERYONE in rapture? Where'd all these people come from?

[MysterD]

Just saw the video review.

I am confused because I thought this was supposed to be a prequel?

And didn't we kill EVERYONE in rapture? Where'd all these people come from?

SP portion = sequel, 10 years after Bioshock 1.
MP portion = prequel to Bioshock 1.

EDIT:
Bioshock 2 Reviews.
8 from Eurogamer (out of 10) for PC, PS3, and X360.
4 stars from GameSpy (out of 5) for X360 and PS3.

[iPPi]

From what I'm reading, it appears that the original Bioshock is the better game.  This is somewhat disappointing to hear because in the last several months, we've had a plethora of sequels emerge (Modern Warfare 2, Uncharted 2, Assassin's Creed II, Mass Effect 2, etc.) and in each one, their scope and what they accomplished completely eclipsed their predecessors.  Every sequel generally brings something new to the table and offers a better experience (MW2 has a better paced campaign and spec ops, Uncharted 2 offers a longer, more varied campaign and a decent multiplayer, AC2 offers a much more better game than its original, and the same can be said about Mass Effect 2). 

Unfortunately, this is not the case with Bioshock 2 based on what I'm seeing from reviews. 

Waiting for a price drop.

[Quemaqua]

This shouldn't be at all surprising.  The man who was the soul of the game never worked on the sequel.

[Pugnate]

I remember hearing in the IGN review that while the game was fantastic looking, it wasn't as good looking as the first game.

That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe they meant it has less of a visual impact, but that's not how they worded it.

[K-man]

This shouldn't be at all surprising.  The man who was the soul of the game never worked on the sequel.

Not to mention that the original game really wasn't set up for a sequel.  Upon reading Giantbomb's review I have less interest in playing it now...

[beo]

Can't say I was hyped for this one at all. When I first heard about a sequel, all I could think was "why?" - add to that the fact that the brains behind the original were gone and I saw no reason to get excited. I did still get it however, since I found a site selling pre-order copies with the art book for £30, whereas the retail price for the standard edition is £50.

A couple of hours in and it feels like more of the same - same plasmids, same enemies, same environment... Coming off of the back of playing mass effect 2, I'm quite "meh" about it. I certainly don't dislike it and I'll keep playing, but at this point it feels more like an expansion pack rather than a new game. About what I expected really, it's pretty and enjoyable but almost remarkably unremarkable so far - hopefully the story picks up a bit and draws me in.

[MysterD]

1Up - Review for PS3 and X360
B+ grade
Video Review.
Written review.

EDIT:
Destructoid article asking 2K Marin's Melissa Miller and Digital Extreme's Mathieu Berube about Bioshock 2 MP.

[Pugnate]

Does anyone else find the whole school grading system lame for video games? Yea having a percentile system is pretty standard as well, but the letter grading system feels like it should stay on the report card.

[idolminds]

PC games upset over lack of controller support.

Not supporting the controller was not a decision that we made lightly," community manager 2K Elizabeth responded, with the company having explained:

    We made quite a number of significant changes to UI / HUD for the PC version of the game. The decision was made early on not to support controllers at all in order to ensure that we got the mouse and keyboard control absolutely right. This of course required a redesign of large parts of the UI and the player HUD. For example, we removed the Weapons and Plasmid Selection Radials in favor of a custom created Weapons Selection Strip which more accurately reflects the keyboard layout.

Does that sound like a BS answer to anyone else? Especially since the original game supported both control schemes and UIs.

[Quemaqua]

Fuck, I just don't understand anyone anymore.  First off, that sounds utterly like bullshit.  You don't abandon one control setup to somehow make sure you get the other one right.  That's completely nonsensical.  Yet at the same time, what in the name of fuck would a PC gamer want to plug in a controller for in the first place?  I swear I just don't understand people at all anymore.

[scottws]

Fuck, I just don't understand anyone anymore.  First off, that sounds utterly like bullshit.  You don't abandon one control setup to somehow make sure you get the other one right.  That's completely nonsensical.  Yet at the same time, what in the name of fuck would a PC gamer want to plug in a controller for in the first place?  I swear I just don't understand people at all anymore.

I use an Xbox 360 wireless controller on my PC when I'm playing console-style games.  I definitely wouldn't use one for something like Bioshock though.

[MysterD]

Fuck, I just don't understand anyone anymore.  First off, that sounds utterly like bullshit.  You don't abandon one control setup to somehow make sure you get the other one right.  That's completely nonsensical.

Agreed.

Yet at the same time, what in the name of fuck would a PC gamer want to plug in a controller for in the first place?  I swear I just don't understand people at all anymore.

Console games that wind-up on the PC, they sometimes don't have decent PC KB/mouse controls - see Res Evil 4 PC; Alone in the Dark PC; etc etc. Of course, this probably ain't the case w/ Bioshock 2 - the KB/mouse controls for this PC game were fine in the original, so they're probably fine again there in the sequel.

As far as I'm concerned, if the same exact game also is available on the X360 system (since their main device is a 360 GamePad), the PC version of that game should support that control scheme also (since that is the main PC Gamepad game designers will actually support - especially if the game is a G4WL Logo game). I always thought it was odd that Two Worlds - which was multiplatformed on PC and 360 - has gamepad support on the X360 (obviously), but the PC version only had KB/mouse support. It just seems odd - since Microsoft 360 Controllers works on BOTH platforms.

If a X360 console gamer for some reason wants to get the PC version of a game like Bioshock 2 (for some reason - say maybe their best friend is a PC gamer and they wanna play each other over G4WL; hell, I dunno) and this console gamer has X360 and is used to those controls, they should be able to plug their 360 controller into the PC and play some Bioshock 2 PC. Another thought - this also could be a good way to get a console gamer who might be a diehard fan of the game to pony-up and also buy the PC version; especially down the line, if the PC version gets like dirt-cheap.

Since the PC is such an open platform, the PC should always be all about options, if you ask me. The more options, the better. Look at Borderlands PC or GTA4 PC - both games support your choice of KB/mouse or gamepad. Go ahead, take your pick. You're the gamer, so you decide.

Most of the time, if the KB/mouse controls ain't botched on the PC version in some shape or form, for FPS games like Borderlands and Bioshock, I'd rather have KB/mouse.

BTW - on another note, I'm glad to hear they made specific PC style UI/HUD for our version that is supporting KB/mouse fully. Sweet.

[MysterD]

GameSpot Review
8.5 for Bioshock 2 - X360 and PS3
Written review.
Video Review - Low-Def.
Video Review - High-Def.

[Pugnate]

Fuck, I just don't understand anyone anymore.  First off, that sounds utterly like bullshit.  You don't abandon one control setup to somehow make sure you get the other one right.  That's completely nonsensical.  Yet at the same time, what in the name of fuck would a PC gamer want to plug in a controller for in the first place?  I swear I just don't understand people at all anymore.

haha I had almost the same reaction on Shacknews.

Who the hell uses a controller to play a shooter on the PC?... yet how lazy are these people that they can't add simple controller support?

[iPPi]

Considering it's a multiplatform release, the support for it should all be there in code.  I think they were just too lazy to implement it into the PC version and are just making a lame excuse to cover the poor effort on the developer's side.

[MysterD]

haha I had almost the same reaction on Shacknews.
Who the hell uses a controller to play a shooter on the PC?

They wouldn't be in the majority here on the PC - that's for sure...hehe.

... yet how lazy are these people that they can't add simple controller support?

That's what really baffles me - especially even more so now true since the first Bioshock PC had supported both KB/mouse and gamepad. 

[MysterD]

IGN gives it 9.1

It appears the MP, while fun, is mostly forgettable.  That is not surprising since it feels that the MP is just tacked onto this game, given its predecessor's lack of an MP component altogether.  Overall, I think it's analogous to the Metroid Prime and the Metroid Prime 2 that had MP.  That said, it does appear the MP component is actually somewhat robust since it does have a progression system like Modern Warfare.

Overall, it seems that it's basically the same game, but a different story with drastically different characters. 

I'm somewhat interested, but there is no way in hell I'm going to pay full price for this game.  I'll wait for it to come down in price before buying it.

From IGN's PC Review...

Rapture's halls aren't quite the visual spectacle they were when we saw them back in 2007, but the subaquatic city is still a terrifically detailed and engrossing setting. Water ripples down walls and pours from ceilings, blurring your vision, a reinforcement of your precarious position and foggy understanding of events within a city that, from the looks of things, should have imploded long ago. It's a reminder of the fragility of the human condition and how philosophical ideals, no matter how well-intentioned, will crack and seep into nothingness when put up against the eternal advance of the forces of nature. If you've got hardware that's powerful enough, it also shouldn't be too surprising to hear that this version of the game is noticeably sharper than on consoles and loads levels more quickly. I was running the game on a rig with a Core i7 960 3.2 GHz CPU, 2 GeForce GTX 260s in SLI, and 6 GB of RAM with Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (obviously quite a bit of power) and the game was running smoothly with maxed out graphical settings at 1920 x 1200 resolution.

...

The multiplayer suite isn't as robust as what PC gamers are going to be used to, but it's still a fun addition to a stellar single-player mode. I should also point out the PC version of BioShock 2 uses Games for Windows – Live, so you'll need to log into an account if you want to save or participate in the multiplayer.

[idolminds]

Controller support will not be added to the PC version.

Hey guys,

I talked to the dev team about controller support for BioShock 2, and I want to let you know that we won’t be adding this into the game in a patch. The decision not to support the controller was not made lightly, and to add it now would take a complete re-envisioning of the UI that the team worked so hard to create.

I’m sorry for those of you who are disappointed, and I want you to know that your comments and concerns have been heard and will be taken in to account when we are planning in the future.

Thanks,

-Elizabeth

A "complete re-envisioning of the UI"? I'm envisioning something like the console version UI, you know...they ones they already had to make.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, somebody over there is just being a fucking tool about it.  It shouldn't be an even remotely big deal.  Why you'd want to use a controller to play your FPS I will never know, you sophomoric little dipshit gamers of the modern era, but it still seems weird for a company to take such a hardline stance on this due to what appears to be sheer laziness.

[idolminds]

And its something thats pretty much a standard feature now. Even Crysis supported a controller, and that game was PC exclusive.

[Xessive]

And its something thats pretty much a standard feature now. Even Crysis supported a controller, and that game was PC exclusive.

Yeah, it even has a "gamepad-only" multiplayer filter.

I still find it weird that Fable PC doesn't support gamepads.

[MysterD]

I still find it weird that Fable PC doesn't support gamepads.

Agreed - especially since that game was first on an X-Box.

EDIT:

Controller support will not be added to the PC version. A "complete re-envisioning of the UI"? I'm envisioning something like the console version UI, you know...they ones they already had to make.

Bingo.

The laziness is what gets me, more so than anything.

I don't understand why they just don't port (from the 360) another Gamepad-baseD UI Inventory option into PC Bioshock 2 - so that if you use a PC gamepad like the X360 controller in Bioshock 2 PC, when you use the controller to access the inventory, it just brings up the Control-pad based Inventory (like the 360 version uses) INSTEAD of the PC-centric KB/mouse inventory.

Of course, on the KB/mouse, if they really want to cool about things here and go an extra mile here - they could have one key on the keyboard bring up the PC Inventory UI; while some other key on the keyboard brings up the Gamepad UI. Why not, right? Should be easy enuff to code.

Regardless, I ain't gonna lose sleep over this issue. For PC FPS's, give me the KB/mouse and a PC-style UI and I'm pretty much all set.

[beo]

so.... anyone else actually play the game, or is this just another bitchfest topic about some random non-issue?