Topic: Jade Empire (PC) -> Update: This is FREE "On The House" Next On EA Origin

[angrykeebler]

Looks like Circuit City will have this Jade Empire SE for the PC on sale for $29.99 the week of 3/11/2007-3/17/2007.

oh man, I am all over that.

[MysterD]

oh man, I am all over that.

Same here.
I been fiendin' for this one for a while.

[Xessive]

Oki doki, I have some good news! I finally got tot see Jade Empire on PC in action!

It looks pretty amazing (compared to its Xbox counterpart)! It's pretty much everything we expected.

The only thing I'm gonna comment on is the new control scheme. Bioware did a hell of a job making the game for keyboard+mouse! The movement controls are essentially the same as any FPS game you've played; WASD to move and mouse mouse direction.. Now the movements are not the same as the Xbox, where the character actually runs in the direction you're moving your left stick in.. Now, the character strafes and moves backward with the side and back keys. Unfortunately this also applies to the control pad controls. It's nothing like the Xbox controls at all. So if you loved the Xbox controls, you might have trouble with the PC variation. I tried playing with a controller and the controls are now just like any FPS game on the Xbox! With the left stick to move forward/back and strafe, and the right stick to rotate.. The only controls which are the same are the combat controls.

Now, I can appreciate the effort Bioware invested to make the game more Keyboard+mouse savvy, but honestly I don't think the controls really needed any changes at all. The original controls were a lot more like the KotOR style, where if I press back the character turns and runs toward the camera. Such controls would not bother me at all if I'm playing with the keyboard+mouse, so I don't really see the need to change. The original controls were like most 3rd person action games on PC (even Splinter Cell), and they definitely suited the game. Oddly enough the controls now feel a lot like Gothic.. I was a little confused when I read the Gamespot review and they said that the controls feel like they're made for keyboard and mouse combos.. I always thought they would work for kb+mouse anyway, but now I understand exactly what they meant.

The new control scheme is acceptable, but it would have been nice to have the old control style for the control pad. Sometimes I wanna lay back and play. The combat is definitely made for the joypad.. It's very playable with kb+mouse but it's a lot more enjoyable with the pad. As it is now, I'm comfortable with the movement controls as long as I use the kb+mouse, but in the combat I prefer the controller (which are exactly the same as Xbox).

Anyway, so to summarize: I don't really see why they changed the controls so radically. Did anyone really complain about the KotOR controls? If anything it would have been nice if they gave us the option of original controls and new controls.

EDIT:
According to the official forums, quite a few people are complaining about the same thing I am not alone!

[Pugnate]

I ordered the game wheee.

[Xessive]

I ordered the game wheee.

Nice, have you played the Xbox version before?

I've decided I'm not gonna go for it until I see some change in the control scheme.. It's too strict the way it is, and this is one game I'd love to just be able to play with my cordless joypad.

[Pugnate]

Nope, otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered. I just find it incredible when people buy a game for two systems.

[MysterD]

Oki doki, I have some good news! I finally got tot see Jade Empire on PC in action!

It looks pretty amazing (compared to its Xbox counterpart)! It's pretty much everything we expected.

The only thing I'm gonna comment on is the new control scheme. Bioware did a hell of a job making the game for keyboard+mouse! The movement controls are essentially the same as any FPS game you've played; WASD to move and mouse mouse direction.. Now the movements are not the same as the Xbox, where the character actually runs in the direction you're moving your left stick in.. Now, the character strafes and moves backward with the side and back keys. Unfortunately this also applies to the control pad controls. It's nothing like the Xbox controls at all. So if you loved the Xbox controls, you might have trouble with the PC variation. I tried playing with a controller and the controls are now just like any FPS game on the Xbox! With the left stick to move forward/back and strafe, and the right stick to rotate.. The only controls which are the same are the combat controls.

Awesome.

Now, I can appreciate the effort Bioware invested to make the game more Keyboard+mouse savvy, but honestly I don't think the controls really needed any changes at all. The original controls were a lot more like the KotOR style, where if I press back the character turns and runs toward the camera. Such controls would not bother me at all if I'm playing with the keyboard+mouse, so I don't really see the need to change. The original controls were like most 3rd person action games on PC (even Splinter Cell), and they definitely suited the game. Oddly enough the controls now feel a lot like Gothic.. I was a little confused when I read the Gamespot review and they said that the controls feel like they're made for keyboard and mouse combos.. I always thought they would work for kb+mouse anyway, but now I understand exactly what they meant.

The new control scheme is acceptable, but it would have been nice to have the old control style for the control pad. Sometimes I wanna lay back and play. The combat is definitely made for the joypad.. It's very playable with kb+mouse but it's a lot more enjoyable with the pad. As it is now, I'm comfortable with the movement controls as long as I use the kb+mouse, but in the combat I prefer the controller (which are exactly the same as Xbox).

Anyway, so to summarize: I don't really see why they changed the controls so radically. Did anyone really complain about the KotOR controls? If anything it would have been nice if they gave us the option of original controls and new controls.

KOTOR's controls on the PC were great.

EDIT:
According to the official forums, quite a few people are complaining about the same thing I am not alone!

Sounds like you guys want a patch, hehe.

[Xessive]

I can't help but feel like I'm knit-picking because everything else about the game is great, and I know that Bioware deliberately changed the controls to try to cater to the PC fans. I feel bad that it kinda backfired. I honestly don't believe anyone would have had any trouble with the original controls at all. I think we would have heard the complaints back during KotOR 1 and 2.

So yeah I'm gonna wait for a patch Until then, Oblivion! And pretty soon, Shiverin' Isles!

[JacksRag(e)]

I played it with both a controller and the keyboard, but I much prefer the keyboard/mouse config.  It's not because of the way the character moves, but more from the way combat feels.  It's much more comfortable attacking by pressing a mouse button than using the controller's buttons, if that makes sense.  I felt like I was just wildly flailing around hitting air with the controller, while I felt more in control, so to speak, with the mouse button. 

Who knows?  I personally like using the keyboard to a controller, anyhow, so I could be biased.

[Xessive]

I played it with both a controller and the keyboard, but I much prefer the keyboard/mouse config.  It's not because of the way the character moves, but more from the way combat feels.  It's much more comfortable attacking by pressing a mouse button than using the controller's buttons, if that makes sense.  I felt like I was just wildly flailing around hitting air with the controller, while I felt more in control, so to speak, with the mouse button. 

Who knows?  I personally like using the keyboard to a controller, anyhow, so I could be biased.

I'm comfortable with both.. Thankfully the combat is pretty much exactly the same on PC as the Xbox version. I can play it with the keyboard/mouse or gamepad equally, no problems there. However in explore mode the controls are just a little uncomfortable for me, correction, VERY uncomfortable with the gamepad. I can bare it with the kb/mouse, but it becomes a little strenuous after a while. I don't understand why they just didn't give us the option since the new controls are so radically different.

[gpw11]

You know, I've run across that once before but can't think of where.  Strafing is great in some games and a welcome addition in others that didn't originally have it, but it's just whacked when it gets added in for no reason.  I can't think of it adding anything to JE and I'd much rather have typical 3rd person controls for a game like this.  I haven't played it, but I know what you're saying.

I kind of hope they release a demo.  I want to play it again, but don't want to drop the money to find out that the higher res really isn't worth it. 

[MysterD]

You know, I've run across that once before but can't think of where.  Strafing is great in some games and a welcome addition in others that didn't originally have it, but it's just whacked when it gets added in for no reason.  I can't think of it adding anything to JE and I'd much rather have typical 3rd person controls for a game like this.  I haven't played it, but I know what you're saying.

I kind of hope they release a demo.  I want to play it again, but don't want to drop the money to find out that the higher res really isn't worth it. 

For those interested, CC will have Jade PC for $30 starting...tomorrow.

[MysterD]

This forum has been discussing how to try and "Unlock" The Rhino Transformation style, since it is locked in the game w/ the files actually there -- kind of like how in B&W2, an animal character was locked, but could be unlocked w/ a lil' bit of manipulation of the files....

[MysterD]

I been spending time w/ this one -- around 2 hours, almost.

All I can say is good stuff about this game. And yes, this is a lot of fun! The combat is even fun -- more fun than I expected it to be, actually, given w/ what has been said about it. The KB/mouse is freakin' great -- I tried to get it a lot similar to say my Oblivion set-up (Right mouse is block, other two mouse buttons are my attacks) and Fable set-up (Magic was my right control key in Fable, so Healing is that right control key for Jade Empire PC) for keys on the mapping -- and I'm happy w/ how I got it set-up and all.

Oh, how many styles of fighting are there in this game, actually???

Like typical Bioware fashion, PAUSE is your best friend! This is when I usually will start switching my styles up or hitting the key to switch to next/previous enemy. The PAUSE really makes it quite nice when you have multiple enemies on you and you want to switch to exactly a certain enemy. I wish other action-RPG games would take note of that. It's not nice when I have 4 guys on me in like say Gothic 1 or Gothic 2 and I hit the key to switch to the next enemy and it switches NOT to the one I want for an actual target b/c there is no pause key to make the target switching less cumbersome. In Jade, with PAUSE, Pause the game, can keep hitting "next target key" until I get that exact enemy I want, then un-pause it so I can hit the "intended enemy." Great success! Finally, a action-RPG game w/ a targeting system that gets it COMPLETELY RIGHT! Thank you namely to the inclusion of one key -- THE PAUSE KEY!

"No Target Mode" is nice to have to switch to and all, but naw -- but, it doesn't work as well as the targeting system w/ the usage of the PAUSE key and all. Not much wrong w/ it, but a few things. Like Oblivion when in 3rd person mode, it don't help in Jade Empire that there is NO CROSSHAIR on the screen to show me where I'd be aiming/swinging exactly. That's the biggest "no-no" here in Jade here. Plus, throw on top of it that it doesn't tell you your enemy's health when that mode is turned on, anyways -- which seems weird to me. I'll stick to the much better developed target system here, thanks.

I also have turned on "Block Only" For Evade. I was double-tapping too much for not trying to evade, and it did evade. Didn't like that. "Block Only" works best for me.

I have no problem w/ the way the strafing and evading is handled in this game -- especially since as when multiple enemies are on you, these keys can be very useful. Strafing is more useful here than in KOTOR, I found. KOTOR, it was almost useless for me to Strafe there. Here in Jade, throw the PAUSE and switch to next enemy, you can be switching to someone on your left or right w/ "next target" key. It can really do wonders here b/c it's Jade feels more direct action-orientated and more hands-on than KOTOR was. In KOTOR, you just could left-point-and-click w/ that right mouse button held down to attack, which felt more like NWN, and let the combat just go on its own -- whereas in Jade you have to click-to-attack for each swing.

I really like the way the story and philosophy has been spoken of in the game and all, so far.

So far, so good. I'm impressed w/ this, so far.

Here's where I'm at....

(click to show/hide)

Master Li just broke the boat -- that was awesome! -- and I spoke to Old Ming.

[gpw11]

It only gets better from there.

There are a lot of styles but you can miss a few and some of them essentially are the same.  For instance there's one that enables you to petrify your opponent, one that lets you freeze them, and one that stuns them (I don't think these are the exact effects, but you get the point).  The overall effect is pretty much the same but if you pull off a harmonic combo you recieve different bonuses, so there still is incentive to switch it up.

[Xessive]

I'm glad you're enjoying it MyD! It is a fantastic game!

By the way, the combat controls is exactly the same as the Xbox, I can play with the controller no problem.. It's the explore mode that's annoying.. The original controls were camera relevant, just like KotOR and Splinter Cell, or even Prince of Persia.. Left and Right are technically strafing to the camera's direction, but the character would turn and run in that direction. It made it a lot easier to play comfortably with a controller, and on PC I could move around without using the mouse much. On the Xbox you can rotate the camera to see your character from all angles, and you can also go into first-person view (great for screenshots). The more I think about it the more stupid it seems to have ever messed with the controls, especially considering that the combat is the same.. All they did was make the explore mode less appealing. Great effort.. I bet it was Gray Matter's doing, not Bioware.

[MysterD]

I'm glad you're enjoying it MyD! It is a fantastic game!

By the way, the combat controls is exactly the same as the Xbox, I can play with the controller no problem.. It's the explore mode that's annoying.. The original controls were camera relevant, just like KotOR and Splinter Cell, or even Prince of Persia.. Left and Right are technically strafing to the camera's direction, but the character would turn and run in that direction. It made it a lot easier to play comfortably with a controller, and on PC I could move around without using the mouse much. On the Xbox you can rotate the camera to see your character from all angles, and you can also go into first-person view (great for screenshots).

I think the "targeting w/ pause" is fine on the PC on the KB/mouse. It works better than any other "targeting" set-up in any other game. Well done w/ this style of controls.

The more I think about it the more stupid it seems to have ever messed with the controls, especially considering that the combat is the same.. All they did was make the explore mode less appealing. Great effort.. I bet it was Gray Matter's doing, not Bioware.

"Explore mode" is a lil' awkward b/c of two things, I think -- lack of a crosshair and I don't see enemy's health at all. If they didn't show you the health in target mode, that issue wouldn't matter.

If they can do the following to this "Explore" mode, I'd be happy:
1. Add the option to toggle on/off a crosshair so I can see where the hell I'm swinging, when I swing and all. 
2. When I hit a enemy, show me their health (like when you are targeting someone. it shows their health).

If those requests can be met, I might give it a chance.

[Xessive]

I think the "targeting w/ pause" is fine on the PC on the KB/mouse. It works better than any other "targeting" set-up in any other game. Well done w/ this style of controls.
"Explore mode" is a lil' awkward b/c of two things, I think -- lack of a crosshair and I don't see enemy's health at all. If they didn't show you the health in target mode, that issue wouldn't matter.

If they can do the following to this "Explore" mode, I'd be happy:
1. Add the option to toggle on/off a crosshair so I can see where the hell I'm swinging, when I swing and all. 
2. When I hit a enemy, show me their health (like when you are targeting someone. it shows their health).

If those requests can be met, I might give it a chance.

Dude, there are no enemies when you're exploring.. I think you're talking about "No Target" mode. I never really use that, so I'm not worried about it. Explore mode is when you're just running about in the game solving mysteries and talking to people (which is the majority of the game). I don't really need a crosshair in this game since there's need to aim at all, when you attack it's generally where your character is facing (regardless of the camera). I think that's why the Xbox version had a more 'cinematic' feel to it. The camera angle only steers your direction when you're running, otherwise you can look at your character from any angle and check out some sweet combat moves, or simply check out the way you run

[MysterD]

On the Xbox you can rotate the camera to see your character from all angles, and you can also go into first-person view (great for screenshots).

Looks like that first person mode is hidden in the PC version, too -- it's within the JadeEmpire.INI file.

And one I've seen written elsewhere:
To get first person view active (ie your character wont be seen) and toggleable via the 'v' key:

Under [Config1]:
Free Look=v

Under [InputOptions]:
Free Look=1

That can be nice if you wanted screenshots, etc. . .personally, I found it very irritating when trying to play with it and step next to things like scrolls, vases, etc; you get so close to them the icon that tells you whether you are close enough to break the vase, etc sometimes leaves the screen and you cant tell if you can break it or not.

EDIT:
I modified the JadeEmpire.INI and tried that. Pretty cool to have that "First Person" mode there, I must say.

I also put on showing FPS by turning  "ShowFPS=0" to "ShowFPS=1." It'd be great, if the FPS number was put in a corner somewhere. It can really get in the way of the damn text of the dialogue trees, when talking. So, back to "ShowFPS=0" it went.

[MysterD]

I'm around some 14-15 hours into this game. Damn, it's extremely good.

There's a good handful of side quests, quests with choices for solutions, awesome combat, and fabulous artistic graphics. The story's outstanding, so far.

I met the Drunken Master guy, Henpecked -- I like that style. Cool as hell. I feel like I'm Jackie Chan in that movie or something. One of my fav' styles.

What are everyone's favorite styles???

Spirit Thief, Leaping Tiger and Ice Shard are my fav. styles.
Oh, and of course, Drunken Master freakin' rocks!!!

[gpw11]

FRAPS is your friend.

[MysterD]

FRAPS is your friend.

FRAPS has been, for the longest time.

I use FRAPS on 99% of my games -- namely for all except for those w/ a built-in FPS counter like DS2.

I have before ran a game's in-game FPS-counter and FRAPS together, just to see how accurate both were w/ each other -- I did it w/ DS2, for a few minutes, just to see. Yuh, their counts were the same.

[MysterD]

Minor complaint. I just noticed this....

It's nice that in the journal, it's nice and sorted.
We have a filter for all "Active Quests".
There's one for "Main", one for "Sub", and one for "All."

Hoe come there's only one filter for "Completed Quests?"
We only have "All Completed Quests."
We should have a filter for "Main" and "Sub", as well.

[MysterD]

Just finished this one -- GREAT game, GREAT story, GREAT gameplay.
Awesome stuff.

Approximately 38 hours or so to finish; the game clocked me in at 37 hr 45 mins.

[Xessive]

Not bad man! It is definitely one of the best games around. I really wanna play the PC version now, but between JE and Shivering Isles, I'll have to spend my cash on SI (at least for now).

[Pugnate]

I tried it for a bit last night... it is very cool. I felt like Bruce Lee.

[MysterD]

Not bad man! It is definitely one of the best games around. I really wanna play the PC version now, but between JE and Shivering Isles, I'll have to spend my cash on SI (at least for now).

Yuh, it was great.

Jade Golem Transformation skill made the end-game parts a lot easier, though.

[Pugnate]

Well I gave Jade Empire a start and noticed it was just a wee bit choppy. I had FSAA on 4 so I turned it off, and continued to get that feeling...sexual heaaaaaaaaaaaling...err...umm...that choppy feeling. Anyway so I turned on fraps and noted the frames were locked at 30. I found it odd so I turned anti aliasing up to x16Q (highest mode that brings every game to its knees...)

Jade Empire continued to run at 30. So after a bit of research, apparently they've locked the frames to 30. That's just insanity for an action oriented game!

http://jade.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=558288&forum=108&highlight=30%20fps

Yes, it's capped at 30 fps. I believe it's a technical relic from the original Xbox release. However, to get around them would require an unnecessarily high amount of work, according to prior Bioware posts. A patch is unlikely to fix it. Heck, a patch is unlikely to appear, given what we know (or don't). Don't expect this to change. It's perfectly serviceable now, even if I would prefer a higher fps as a PC gamer.

Unnecessary amount of work? Is it just me, or are developers just losing their work ethic? People are paying $40 for a very old game. The least they can expect is some basic optimization. Anyway the game still rocks at 30fps.

I am actually normally quite OK with 30fps in an RPG, but prefer at least 60 in an action game. Well it isn't a big deal... just thought I'd mention it.

And I couldn't find an older Jade Empire thread, or did we not have one?

[PyroMenace]

Ummm... this is the community board, try the gaming board.

[Pugnate]

Ugh. 2 hours of sleep is bad.

[MysterD]

Jade Empire PC rocks in every way possible.

Here's the old thread for it

[Pugnate]

Well I've put in probably five-seven hours in this game, and I have to say I am not terribly impressed. It feels like they tried to cram an action game into the KOTOR engine or something. I am not convinced with the combat. Instead of being fast, exciting and violent... it feels like a game of chess. I find the controls difficult to master, and unresponsive. Using a mouse to do battle definitely has its disadvantages, and I am thinking of getting a wireless 360 controller. A lot of this probably has to do with my inability to do well in this game and pull off combos. It is just that with the current controls everything feels unresponsive.

The game is extremely linear, and walking around with only one companion feels cheap. Overall it definitely feels like a console game, and I find it ridiculous that IGN gave it 9.8

No wonder Tal Blevins stopped writing.

[MysterD]

Well I've put in probably five-seven hours in this game, and I have to say I am not terribly impressed. It feels like they tried to cram an action game into the KOTOR engine or something. I am not convinced with the combat. Instead of being fast, exciting and violent... it feels like a game of chess. I find the controls difficult to master, and unresponsive. Using a mouse to do battle definitely has its disadvantages, and I am thinking of getting a wireless 360 controller. A lot of this probably has to do with my inability to do well in this game and pull off combos. It is just that with the current controls everything feels unresponsive.

Pause key is your friend -- like any other Bioware game.

I thought the controls were great, myself. I liked the lock-on system for targeting enemies. And I used pause a lot, for when I decided to change who to target. Gothic 1 and 2 should've taken notes on that one.

Though, I find that doing hitting the "freelook" hotkey is best when on the defensive, for moving and dodging attacks. Works great.

The game is extremely linear, and walking around with only one companion feels cheap. Overall it definitely feels like a console game, and I find it ridiculous that IGN gave it 9.8

Have you got past the first location of the game?

It opens up w/ a good amount of side quests, after you leave the first location. Like KOTOR, the game gets much better once you leave the first location.

And, you'll eventually have, later on, a max of 3 in your group, for certain parts of the game. Trust me, Pug -- keep playing.

[Pugnate]

Yea I was pretty harsh. I mean I really enjoy the combat. Heck this is the first RPG where I am really impatient with the dialog because I can't wait to go kick some ass hehe.

Yea I am past the first location and am at the town with the water problem. I am enjoying the game, but I think the combat could have been done better. Then again I am not good at it, so that's probably the issue.

[MysterD]

Jade Empire: Special Edition has been released as DRM-FREE on GOG

For its launch, it'll be $10 (33% off).
Normally, it'll be $14.99.

[Xessive]

Jade Empire: Special Edition has been released as DRM-FREE on GOG

For its launch, it'll be $10 (33% off).
Normally, it'll be $14.99.

Awesome game but I don't recommend the PC version. It's basically broken with wonky controls.

EDIT:
Didn't have enough time to elaborate earlier. The PC version comes with higher resolution but unfortunately the menus and UI are all still low-res, and if you're on a widescreen they're stretched horizontally, looking particularly splotchy and just awful. It's as if zero effort was put into the porting of the UI. That's the only real visual problem with the game; the bigger issue is the controls.

Apparently someone at the studio that ported it thought it would be a good idea to make the controls more like a FPS (mouse to look, keys to move, camera locked movement), unlike the original which was more like Soul Reaver (camera not locked to character's facing). Oddly enough the controls revert when you enter combat. There's no proper gamepad support either, it was introduced in a later patch and it's still awkward since it's just the keyboard commands mapped to the gamepad; it does not resemble the original control scheme at all.

Great game, great story, very poorly ported to the PC. Damn shame.

[MysterD]

EA Origin -> Jade Empire PC = FREE next for On The House.
So, yeah - go get it !

EDIT:
It still on C+C2 for FREE On The House.
I'll let you know when Jade Empire PC flips FREE for On The House, if someone else don't beat me to it.