Topic: Vista vs XP power requirements. (Now with a 56k Warning)

[Pugnate]

Does anyone have access to power requirements for browsing and word processing in XP and Vista Aero? I'd like to know how big of a difference it is, and if turning off Aero in Vista will lower the power requirements to XP levels. Thanks in advance.

[Pugnate]

Alright I guess Scottws was kidding about Vista requiring 300 watts to look at.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page11.html

According to that and other sources, the power requirements between Vista and XP are virtually the same, even with Aero.

I was asking because I need to figure stuff about a UPS I got.

[scottws]

I wasn't kidding, I just thought since it used the GPU that it would consume a lot more power.  But now that I have it and use the Aero interface, I haven't notice my PC being hot or a lot of fan noise at all.  I guess it's not like trying to render Crysis.

[Pugnate]

Oh well. I am glad I looked it up because essentially the sector of the city I am living in had a power breakdown. Yes, living in a third world country is very rewarding. Anyway... basically this sector is siphoning off of other sectors, so essentially I am facing 4 hours of no power a day. 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the evening, for a period of at least three months. 

Now I bought a 1000VA UPS (600 watts) which is supposed to provide 2 to 3 hours of backup to three systems using CRT monitors -- when used for browsing and non gaming stuff.

Keeping in mind that my system has a 22'' LCD, how many hours should I be getting for a single system? I am thinking 5-6 hours in one go? I was surprised to note that my 22'' LCD requires 48 watts to operate:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewSonic-VX2235WM-Monitor-Speakers-Silver/dp/tech-data/B000I91MXC

While a 15'' CRT requires 70-80 watts depending on the monitor? I had no idea the difference would be that huge, especially taking into factor the size difference between the two.

By the way, my room how has two 1000VS UPS' (one provides backup to three rooms in the house), both of which make some noise, and make my room smell off car battery.

[scottws]

2-3 hrs?  UPS's are usually designed to provide you enough time to save your work and shutdown the system softly.  Most are designed to last 15-30 minutes.

[Pugnate]

lol welcome to the third world. Those 15 min UPS' are with dry batteries. These use car batteries. The home UPS I have can run two cieling fans and two lights for about  6 hours.

I might have to get a generator as well.

[idolminds]

Heh, I actually saw instructions a while back for a do-it-yourself UPS that lasts several hours. I've been wanting to build one for my comp since the power can drop out randomly-ish.

[Cobra951]

I have a 1300 VA (like 780 watts) APC UPS, and its applet tells me its has 22-26 minutes of power when the consumption is around 200 watts.  APC support claims the app is extremely conservative in its estimates, but even if it lasts twice as long at 200 watts (which is more in line with what the literature claims), I still wouldn't consider it a replacement for a generator.  It does not use car batteries, but they are lead-acid equivalent, using some sort of a mesh that's supposed to prevent leakage if the case breaks.  There are 2 of them hooked up together, and they are much smaller than car batteries.

How does one get car-battery UPS's around here?  Building one seems dangerous.

Edit:  These are my batteries.  12V 9AH sealed lead-acid (SLA).  It uses 2, so that's 18 AH.  Car batteries are like 50 -70 AH, right?

I saw a forum where someone was suggesting using marine deep-cycle batteries instead of car batteries.  He was saying that car batteries don't like deep discharges at all.

[Pugnate]

Well I didn't have power for five bloody hours. I need to get the fuck out of this country. This is getting depressing. Apparently the city's electric supply company (KESC) was privatized two years ago for a sale of 22 billion rupees, after the freakin' World Bank kept insisting it was a good idea. Looks like it wasn't, because the power company is two years later under a debt of 38 billion rupees, and can't seem to be able to pay it off. Their suppliers have essentially cut them off by 50%, and now KESC lost two of their own local grids under the extra pressure. They are estimating power cuts of 12 hours a day in a month if the KESC doesn't pay its bills.

Here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7280933.stm

The good news was that the UPS ran OK. I e-mailed their tech person earlier, and he estimated I should get six to nine hours of backup for my computer. Pretty crazy.

I also have a 1200VA UPS that is portable and has a dry battery. That I had for the occasional power losses, and it suited me fine till this power crisis. It gave about 15 minutes, enough to shut down, or for pr0n emergencies. j/k.

[Pugnate]

Well I thought you guys might get a kick out of this:

Here is the UPS for home use. It can power three tube lights and ceiling fans for 4-6 hours. The UPS is actually on top of another box that holds the batteries.



Here is the computer UPS. I can't wait for all these UPS' to cause a minor explosion.



Here is my now retired UPS. It had a dry battery and was good for a clean shutdown. It was 1200VA, but lasted 15 min. max.

[Cobra951]

You're not pulling any punches with those, are you?  Jeez.  That is fricking huge.  I think my whole UPS is the size of the box that sits on top in the 2nd picture.

[Antares]

Wow. In case of blackout, pug will be the only house on the street with lights and Internets.

[Quemaqua]

In case of a blackout, I have... uh, candles.

[scottws]

He'll be like Kevin Smith's character The Warlock in Live Free or Die Hard.

[Pugnate]

Yea unfortunately every other house has this. They have to. Plus everyone is purchasing gas powered generators, which are in the long run cheaper than using electricity... still an added expense. (By gas, I mean natural gas, and not petrol )

In other news price of oil has gone up to $112. Bloody hell.

[Cobra951]

Which translates to gas (petrol) at $3.50 a gallon, at a time when many of us are losing employment and employment opportunities.  This is the worst time to be an American in my lifetime.  I was less afraid of Vietnam than I am of what's happening here now.  Not to minimize the bullshit happening with your electric utility company.

[WindAndConfusion]

Apparently the city's electric supply company (KESC) was privatized two years ago for a sale of 22 billion rupees, after the freakin' World Bank kept insisting it was a good idea. Looks like it wasn't, because the power company is two years later under a debt of 38 billion rupees, and can't seem to be able to pay it off. Their suppliers have essentially cut them off by 50%, and now KESC lost two of their own local grids under the extra pressure. They are estimating power cuts of 12 hours a day in a month if the KESC doesn't pay its bills.

This is basically what happened in California in 2000 and 2001.

lol welcome to the third world.

California only looks like the third world.

[Quemaqua]

You'd be hard pressed to call it anything else.  We certainly have enough illegally-immigrated Mexicans and welfare-hobos.

Also, gas is within a few cents of $4/gallon here.

[Pugnate]

Which translates to gas (petrol) at $3.50 a gallon, at a time when many of us are losing employment and employment opportunities.  This is the worst time to be an American in my lifetime.  I was less afraid of Vietnam than I am of what's happening here now.  Not to minimize the bullshit happening with your electric utility company.

No of course. Let's just vent in this thread heh.

The fuel price hits third world countries pretty hard as well, especially when it comes to public transport, power generation, food items etc., which would have an impact on inflation. Having said that, most of these countries found oil to be pretty expensive even when it was at $60 a gallon, so they at the very least invested in some alternative fuel sources.

For example, in Brazil and Argentina, most cars run on alcohol and natural gas. In Pakistan and Bangladesh, CNG (natural gas) is in most cars along with petrol and is effective for when traveling at speeds up to 100kmh. You can alternate between CNG and Petrol as a driver.

You guys should find this interesting. Apparently CNG is used in some American public transport as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas

Right, so CNG generators are pretty cool. In fact if we run the house on a CNG generator instead of electricity, we will get about 75% savings. The only issue is that it needs a steady stream of gas, which isn't always available.

None of this means that the KESC crisis is any easier. Them generators are about a thousand bucks, and I've already spent about six hundred dollars on the two UPS systems.

Which translates to gas (petrol) at $3.50 a gallon, at a time when many of us are losing employment and employment opportunities.

I might sound like some conspiracy nut, but I always thought the Bush family had little reason to invest in alternative fuel sources with them having virtually everything invested in oil fields of Saudi Arabia.

This is basically what happened in California in 2000 and 2001

CA went through a power crisis?

Also, gas is within a few cents of $4/gallon here.

I had no idea. I guess CNG isn't a viable option for the USA's problems.

In the Indian subcontinent, there are vast reserves of natural gas. CNG is about 75% cheaper.

[Antares]

I paid $45 this morning to fill up my Mini.  Outrageous.

Most of the electricity in the US is actually still generated by coal.  There are a few vehicles here that run off natural gas, but right now for some reason there is a huge push for E85 Ethanol fuel, despite the fact that we could never produce enough plant matter to fulfill demand if vehicles here were capable of running it.

[scottws]

Which translates to gas (petrol) at $3.50 a gallon, at a time when many of us are losing employment and employment opportunities.  This is the worst time to be an American in my lifetime.  I was less afraid of Vietnam than I am of what's happening here now.

I'm with you.  I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.  Inflation is out of control.  Necessary goods are skyrocketing in price.  Debt is at an all time high as well as foreclosure rates.  It feels almost certain there will be a Great Depression II.

But a friend of mine works in the financial industry and he isn't all that concerned.

[Pugnate]

On a side note, I found this interesting. It is a graph showing power consumptions of next gen consoles.

I'm with you.  I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.  Inflation is out of control.  Necessary goods are skyrocketing in price.  Debt is at an all time high as well as foreclosure rates.  It feels almost certain there will be a Great Depression II.

I hope that's not true of course, but I have a feeling that things will return to normal after the elections take place.

[scottws]

Interesting.  I wonder if the Wii results are a reflection of just how much power consumption has jumped with the latest graphics hardware or if the Wii's hardware is just well designed, optimized, and implemented.

Did it say anything about what the PC specs were?  Obviously, knowing that will help put it in a frame of reference.  And knowing if the PC was in use for gaming during its entire test or if there was some time spent looking at a desktop.

[WindAndConfusion]

CA went through a power crisis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_energy_crisis

Both Enron and Arnold Schwarzenegger were direct consequences of the energy crisis.

[Pugnate]

Interesting.  I wonder if the Wii results are a reflection of just how much power consumption has jumped with the latest graphics hardware or if the Wii's hardware is just well designed, optimized, and implemented.

Did it say anything about what the PC specs were?  Obviously, knowing that will help put it in a frame of reference.  And knowing if the PC was in use for gaming during its entire test or if there was some time spent looking at a desktop.

Sorry I should have posted the link.

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-356-1.htm

Interesting.  I wonder if the Wii results are a reflection of just how much power consumption has jumped with the latest graphics hardware or if the Wii's hardware is just well designed, optimized, and implemented.

Yes, that's remarkable isn't it? Its a HUGE difference. I guess it is a combination of what you said?

Both Enron and Arnold Schwarzenegger were direct consequences of the energy crisis.

Load shedding in California is something I had never expected.

[Cobra951]

When the Wii was new, that huge power discrepancy was a headline, sort of.  It may be that the system is well designed, but I doubt it's the main reason.  You can tell by the heat output of anything putting out current levels of performance that it takes a hell of a lot more work than it used to.  You can't heat a bedroom with GC or PS2.

With all the push for "green" electrical products, it's a testament to the power of big money that game PCs and current-gen consoles have not come under attack.  When I have my PC, my 360 and my LCD TV on at the same time, the UPS shows 400 watts consumption.  (That spikes up by around 50 watts when the PC is doing 3D work.)  All this energy going to play videogames, when the most popular console in the market uses a tenth as much.   

[Pugnate]

In other news, the power situation is back to normal. Apparently the KESC and the government is waiting till the first of April.

Cobra, I don't have a Wii, so I haven't experienced its GPU capabilities first hand, but in terms of Watts the next gen consoles are consuming over 10 times the power. Are they really doing 10 times the work?

All this energy going to play videogames, when the most popular console in the market uses a tenth as much.

haha I know. I've gotten a bit more conscious about this stuff since the local power crisis.

I've been desperate for something new, and I've been thinking about getting a Wii. Trouble is that its $400 here. Worth it?

I already have a gamecube, so how much of a difference will I notice between the consoles? Also from Wii Sports, do any other games make effective use of the Wii stick thingee?

[Cobra951]

The Wii is much more limited in graphics power than the competition.  It's more like enhanced last gen.  Its top resolution is 480p.  Do the PS3 and 360 do 10X the work?  I wouldn't doubt it.  I'm sure there are technical papers on the overall throughput of all these systems somewhere.  If I find hard numbers, I'll post them.

But lots of heat means lots of inefficiency.  All that heat is power wasted.  I'd love to see that cured.  I don't know how it would be done, other than continuing to reduce the chip sizes and power requirements.  90 nm to 65 nm, for example.

Metroid Prime 3 makes great use of the remote as a pointer.  It takes the place of the mouse in FPS games.  Point where you want to look & shoot.  Pull the trigger.  All FPS games on the Wii need to be done this way, if it ever gets any.

[Pugnate]

Metroid Prime 3 makes great use of the remote as a pointer.  It takes the place of the mouse in FPS games.  Point where you want to look & shoot.  Pull the trigger.

Sounds more fun than a mouse! Have you tried No More Heroes?

Also on the subject of Wii efficiency:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/19/nintendo-still-dead-last-in-greenpeace-electronics-rankings/

[scottws]

I saw that in Wired.  It had nothing to do with the power consumption of the companies respective consoles or electronics.  It had to do with the environmental practices of the companies in relation to their manufacturing.  For instance Microsoft has moved to lead-free solder.

[WindAndConfusion]

In any case, Greenpeace isn't a reliable source. Especially for environmental issues.

[Cobra951]

I saw that in Wired.  It had nothing to do with the power consumption of the companies respective consoles or electronics.  It had to do with the environmental practices of the companies in relation to their manufacturing.  For instance Microsoft has moved to lead-free solder.

Yep.  One of the reasons the 360 fails so much.

[scottws]

Well, supposedly it wasn't necessarily the lead-free solder itself that caused the failures, but rather the manufacturing people not knowing how to properly use it.

[Ghandi]

In any case, Greenpeace isn't a reliable source. Especially for environmental issues.

Nonsense. I go to crazy hippies in life rafts for all my environmental news. 

[Pugnate]

I saw that in Wired.  It had nothing to do with the power consumption of the companies respective consoles or electronics.  It had to do with the environmental practices of the companies in relation to their manufacturing.  For instance Microsoft has moved to lead-free solder.

Yup. I think this graph had to do with PVC levels. I was pointing out that even though the Wiis are more efficient in terms of power consumption, they aren't so "green".