Topic: To prepare for the arrival of Metal Gear Solid 4...

[K-man]

I've begun a play through of all the previous MGS games.  I finished the first one on Friday (which probably makes like the 30th time or something).  It was kind of hard to get into at the beginning because the graphics (like every other ps1 game) haven't aged well at all.  About an hour into it I ceased to even notice.  I was again reminded just how beyond anything else the game was at that time.  Blew through it in 3 sittings.  Started MGS2 last night.  Again amazed at the transition, and just as pissed when I started playing as Raiden.  Still an amazing game so far.  I'm very glad I'm doing this.  I haven't played through any of these games in years.  I may even try to get through Portable Ops.

I'm really anxious and saddened to see the conclusion of a story arc that I've followed for the past ten years.  Even longer if you count the original metal gear for NES (which wasn't completely faithful, but told approximately the same story). 

[Quemaqua]

I played the original obsessively when I was younger, and I've gone through MGS twice, but through 2 or 3 attempts I've never managed to get through MGS2.  Not really sure why.  It's cool, I can just never seem to make it happen.  Because of this, I've never even started MGS3, which is the one I really want to play.  Arg.  I did play through a bit of AC!D as well, and that game was awesome, yet I couldn't finish it just because it required so much actual effort.  Being portable, most of the time I just couldn't invest the energy that it wanted me to.

[Pugnate]

A month ago, out of curiosity, I downloaded this 162MB MGS4 E3 trailer just to see what the hype was about. Now I've never actually played a MGS game, though I've found my brother raving about it on countless occasions. Well, him and gazillions of other rabid fans across the internet.

So I watched it, and I couldn't help but laugh to the very end. I wanted to post about it earlier, but couldn't find the right context. It was pretty ridiculous. Everything from the voice acting, to the music, to the character models (Some redheaded chick with hair so rigid, that I suspected it was dead squirrel... either that or she used a lot of hair gel), looked extremely cheesy, and didn't seem like it would fly by today's standards. With a lot of old school PC developers getting mulitplatinum hits on the consoles (Bioshock, Mass Effect etc), I feel the market has moved on from this stuff. What they did in the trailer, can't be pulled off without some form of self parody. If the cutscene were an actual piece from a theatrical movie, people would be rolling down the aisles laughing, taking down ushers with them.

I personally think the game may sell below expected in the longer run, at least in the European/North American market.

Umm... I hope you don't think I am shitting all over your thread here. I am sure my concerns won't matter to you, since you grew up with the series. Likewise, I have a lot of childhood stuff I love (Robotech, Transformers), that will give most normal people a Grade 6 ruptured cerebral aneurysm.

Anyway, I found a lower rez version of the video I watched:

It was kind of hard to get into at the beginning because the graphics (like every other ps1 game) haven't aged well at all.  About an hour into it I ceased to even notice.

I can relate. Recently I decided that I'd finally finish Half-Life 1, which I finished, along with Opposing Force and Blue Shift over a weekend. When I started, I couldn't help but laugh at the character animations, and low rez textures. But thirty minutes was all it took, and I am glad I did it, because the game rocked.

[K-man]

Eh, I can see how the uninitiated would find a lot of it cheesy.  Hell, I find some of it cheesy and I'm a huge fan.  That's admittedly Kojima's style.  He lays a story base down that could be believable/teetering on the edge of believable.  Then it seems he'll just throw some shit in out of left field.  There are things throughout all three MGS games that annoy me like that. 

And Que, it actually would be sort of OK to play MGS3 before 2 since the events in the game happen well before 2.  3 will shed some light on a few surprises in MGS2, but mostly stuff you wouldn't find out about until the end of both games.  I highly recommend playing through 3, as it is technically (and story-wise) probably the best game of the series.

I think the game will sell as expected, and sell a lot of PS3's in the process.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah Pug, you can't understand this stuff unless you sort of get into it and see it.  It is weird and cheesy, but on some levels, that's kind of the point.  It's really impossible to understand the strange way the games present themselves, much less the appeal, without actually diving into one.  They aren't for everyone, but I think if you find the gameplay engaging at all they pretty much end up being impossible to dislike despite all the oddities (provided you don't generally find that kind of thing unappealing, in which case... don't bother).

[scottws]

Yeah, I think the MGS series is a bit overrated.  The gameplay is fun and, for the lack of a better term, solid, but there is just as much cutscenes, codec conversations, and movies and those things are all ridiculously cheesy.

I remember I almost got fired from a job because I stayed to see the end of the 30-min final cutscene in MGS2.  I didn't want to have to fight the final boss again to watch it later.

[Xessive]

That trailer does kinda make it seem extra cheesy, especially for someone new to the series. Although the Raiden vs Vamp fight was funky.

Check out the trailer that came out in Sept 2006 (it's about 6 mins).

By the way, this is set 9 years after the events of Shadow Moses (MGS1), did Snake age rapidly or do you think the plot has some crazy twist?

[scottws]

Does it matter?  The plot for MGS2 was impossible.  Kojima & Co. do whatever they want.

[Pugnate]

Yes a lot of people tell me this quirkiness is part of the package.

[Xessive]

Does it matter?  The plot for MGS2 was impossible.  Kojima & Co. do whatever they want.

Well, no.. I just wanted to know what y'all think about it.

I'd really love to play MGS3 as well.

[scottws]

Well, no.. I just wanted to know what y'all think about it.

Oh I didn't mean to sound like I was snapping at you.  Basically I just meant that obviously looking at the plot of MGS2, it doesn't have to make sense about Snake's age according to Konami.  It's just as likely that it won't be some weird twist, he'll just be old 9 years after MGS1 for no reason.

[K-man]

There's a definite reason why Snake looks a lot older, but I'm not going to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't played it.

[Xessive]

Oh I didn't mean to sound like I was snapping at you.  Basically I just meant that obviously looking at the plot of MGS2, it doesn't have to make sense about Snake's age according to Konami.  It's just as likely that it won't be some weird twist, he'll just be old 9 years after MGS1 for no reason.

Hahaha don't worry about it I'm always trying to make sense of the plots in MGS games

[gpw11]

I played through MGS1 and MGS 2 a couple times each.  I liked both of them quite a bit and find the series to be one of the better franchises out there.  I think Pug might be being a bit harsh on it in that the cornyness of the whole thing is a lot less evident when you're actually playing it.  The overall tone is a bit like the signature of the series.  When it comes down to it, the games do a very good job of conveying emotion and making the player feel the tension/drama/whatever.  Compaired to say, Splinter Cell, the franchise is pretty much untouchable in what it does.

[Quemaqua]

Agreed.  I think the Splinter Cell games more or less do nothing but suck.

[Xessive]

Splinter Cell is alright for stealth gameplay but they suck when it comes to story. Hopefully ConViction will be different.

MGS is more arcade-stealth-action, as oppose to Splinter Cell which is more tactical.

[Pugnate]

Agreed.  I think the Splinter Cell games more or less do nothing but suck.

 

Splinter Cell is alright for stealth gameplay but they suck when it comes to story. Hopefully ConViction will be different.

Chaos Theory was Splinter Cell at its peak. It was superb.

I think the storytelling in the first three games wasn't so bad. They did the well with the medium. Double Agent was when the series lost direction, so to speak.

Hopefully ConViction will be different.

I have this weird feeling that they are taking that open world direct with medium to somehow use the Assassin's Creed engine.

I think Pug might be being a bit harsh on it in that the cornyness of the whole thing is a lot less evident when you're actually playing it.  The overall tone is a bit like the signature of the series.  When it comes down to it, the games do a very good job of conveying emotion and making the player feel the tension/drama/whatever.

Well, I think if you show that video to anyone who hasn't experienced the series, you will get more than a few laughs. I am sure my attitude would be different had I played the games.

But as I understand it, the goofiness isn't unintended, and is part of some self parody? Well, I might just buy the first Metal Gear Solid to experience a piece of gaming history.

[Xessive]

Chaos Theory is by far the best in the series, so far. I have faith in Ubisoft Montréal.

Yo if you go MGS1 make sure to have an original copy (not crucial but better). There was one part where I had to contact Meryl and Campbell tells me her codec frequency is located on the back of the CD case!

I love little things like that

(click to show/hide)

In the Playstation version of MGS1, during the fight with Psychomantis, you realize that Psychomantis can predict all of your movements and it's impossible to hit him. Solution? Plug your controller into the player 2 slot and he will react with something like "What? How did I not see that?! Arrgh!"

[Pugnate]

Chaos Theory is by far the best in the series, so far. I have faith in Ubisoft Montréal.

Yup. I also have high hopes for Assassin's Creed PC, and Far Cry 2.

Also Xessive, that spoiler is hilarious and somewhat endearing. I can appreciate an inside joke like that.

Yo if you go MGS1 make sure to have an original copy (not crucial but better)

They did an updated version?

[K-man]

They released Twin Snakes for the Gamecube.  It was farmed out to Silicon Knights.  They added gameplay elements from MGS2 like first person shooting mode that effectively broke the game.  They also re-recorded all of the dialogue, and changed some of it in the process.  They ended up removing what I felt were the best lines in the game.  They redid all of the cut scenes as well, but it's like they amped John Woo up on meth and set him loose.  They're really over the top and kind of take away from the atmosphere.  It's worth a play through if you're a fan, but if you're looking for THE experience then the PS1 version is still the way to go.

BTW, surely this has been mentioned elsewhere, but MGS1-3 have been repackaged in the past week and sold for 29.99.  They're the special editions of 2 and 3 too.  Very much worth the money.  I own all the games to start with and I even bought a copy (that will remain unopened).

[Pugnate]

Unfortunately, I gave away my PS2 a few years ago. But I bought MGS1 on eBay, so yay. Will post my impressions at some point.

They released Twin Snakes for the Gamecube. 

Right, I've seen the gang here talk about Twin Snakes, and even found my brother mentioning it. I do have a GC, but would rather not play it if it has been sullied.

It was farmed out to Silicon Knights.

Ahh the guys who sued Epic, because they couldn't figure the Unreal Engine.

[Quemaqua]

Just let your usual sensibilities lie dormant.  The first time I played the first MGS I was utterly weirded out because the story would be all serious, then it would suddenly seem corny, then it would go back to serious, then it would seem to just start making fun of itself.  It's sort of weirdly brilliant once you wrap your head around it, but until that point in time it will likely confuse you.  Just try to enjoy the gameplay, which is still pretty damned fun even today, I think, as long as you haven't utterly exhausted the stealth genre.  Generally once you start enjoying the game, you start to figure out the other stuff by proxy.

[K-man]

I actually envy pug.  I wish I could go back and experience the game for the first time again.

There's actually a nice story about how I got the game.  Coming from someone who played Metal Gear incessantly, I was overjoyed the day I opened up my PSM in 98 and found a preview for MGS.  Jaw just absolutely hit the floor.  At this time I was only aware of Metal Gear through the NES game and Snakes Revenge, which I also owned.  At that time there wasn't a ton of gaming-related info on the net, so I was unaware that Snakes Revenge wasn't done by Kojima and wasn't considered canon.  In fact this was the first time I realized that what I played wasn't the true metal gear, and that there was a sequel I never saw.

So anyhow, I watch for info for the following months like a hawk.  A few weeks before release, the strategy guide hits at Wal Mart.  I pick it up and study it much more than I was studying the books to my freshman college courses at the time.  I anxiously await the day of release...It finally arrives.  Keep in mind that Cookeville was a fairly bustling college town at that point....about 50k people and quite a few stores that sold video games.  I went to every one of them, even wal mart.  Nothing.  not ONE copy.  At this point I'm fucking distraught.  Waiting all this time and I don't even get to play the game on release.  At the time I was seeing a girl that worked about 45 minutes away.  On the way back, I'm passing a podunk walmart (it wasn't even a super center!) in the podunk town of Carthage, TN.  I figure "what the hell" and stop in.  Sure enough there's 10 copies of the game.

The next two or three days were a blur.  I most certainly did not attend classes.

[gpw11]

Unfortunately, I gave away my PS2 a few years ago. But I bought MGS1 on eBay, so yay. Will post my impressions at some point.
Right, I've seen the gang here talk about Twin Snakes, and even found my brother mentioning it. I do have a GC, but would rather not play it if it has been sullied.

Ahh the guys who sued Epic, because they couldn't figure the Unreal Engine.

They've also made a few totally kick ass games.  As for the Epic suit, it's about breach of contract since Epic allegedly didn't meet their own contractual deadlines with the engine.  Epic's motion to dismiss was denied so we at least know there's enough evidence that it deserves a court case.  Beyond that we'll have to wait and see if there's anything shady.

[Xessive]

Yup. I also have high hopes for Assassin's Creed PC, and Far Cry 2.

Also Xessive, that spoiler is hilarious and somewhat endearing. I can appreciate an inside joke like that.

They did an updated version?

I meant don't go for a bootlegged copy if you can help it.. Also I think the PC version has a different Psychomantis battle.

[poomcgoo]

MGS is without a doubt in my top 5 games of all time.  I remember buying it the day it was released and just being blown away more than any other game save for maybe the first time I booted up Mario 64.  Even as outdated as it may be, the story is incredible and like Que mentioned, there is something about the way the game presents it's serious story with a unique sense of humor is just perfect.  It takes its story very seriously, but will make fun of the fact that it's a video game which is just classic, especially for a huge fan of gaming.  It still remains as the only game I've beaten more than 5 times.  It's that good.  The gameplay may be a little simple by today's standards, but it's definitely fun, and the story will absolutely engage you because it truly hasn't been outdated.  This game was way ahead of it's time.

[scottws]

Maybe I should play it (the original MGS), but I have 4 things holding me back:

1)  I don't have a PSX.
2)  My PS2 is broke.
3)  I hear Twin Snakes sucks.
4)  I thought MGS2 was pretty crap.

[K-man]

Maybe I should play it (the original MGS), but I have 4 things holding me back:

1)  I don't have a PSX.
2)  My PS2 is broke.
3)  I hear Twin Snakes sucks.
4)  I thought MGS2 was pretty crap.

Twin Snakes doesn't suck per se, but it makes some changes to the original that hardcore fans (me) don't like.  If you play it you'll gather pretty much the same story.  I just think having a first person shooting mode effectively breaks the game.  And the cutscenes are really over the top, but entertaining at the same time.

I put MGS2 to bed last night.  Upon playing it again (this is only my second play-through) my opinion of it has changed for the better.  I'm not going to spoil anything, but the story became slightly more understandable the second time around.  But the game most certainly doesn't suck.  It just had a story twist that didn't sit too well with fans who waited years to play it.

Now I have to make the decision of whether or not I want to tackle Snake Eater again, or if I want to play through Portable Ops for the first time.  Portable Ops apparently fleshes out the canon quite a bit.

Regardless, my undying love for this series has been galvanized yet again.  I admit that it's not for some people, but fortunately I'm not one of them.

[TheOtherBelmont]

So who's getting the collector's edition?  I just preordered it yesterday and got that bonus DVD that has the history of all the Snakes and comes with a beta download key for Metal Gear Solid Online which goes live Monday.  The collector's edition itself comes with a bunch of goodies that I can't wait to get.

[Xessive]

Very few people would argue that Metal gear Solid 4 is not visually impressive; on the forefront of those people is the game's creator Hideo Kojima himself.

In an interview published in the latest issue of the British Edge Magazine, Hideo Kojima was asked if Metal Gear Solid lived up to his aspirations and his reply was that: "Game-wise, it's pretty close to the original vision: you sneak into the battlefield and can choose whether to do a stealth game or interfere with the battle more directly. But the graphic, side things like motion-blending and the size of the map, totally was not accomplished to my original vision - to my satisfaction."

According to Kojima, back when Playstation 3 was first announced, it was a "dream machine" which inspired them with lots of ideas, but "when we actually started developing the game, we realized there were a lot of restrictions and so it turned out how you see it today. The original vision was to go ten steps further; the reality was just one step, which isn't to say we didn't progress."

"I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn't really do that because of the CPU" Hideo Kojima concluded. "We're using the Cell engine to its limit, actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."

Source: Megagames.com

Kojima seems very 'Molyneux-esque' in his view on how MGS4 "should" have been.

[gpw11]

Totally bumping this old thread because search didn't turn up a more recent one dedicated to MGS4.  As you may know, I like checking out "Let's Play!"s from time to time. Basically, people play games and comment on them.  It's not a great concept for most games, but really shines for some.  I bought Persona 3 because of checking out one LP on the SA forums which was on the game - narrated from the perspective of the MCs Myspace page.

It works great for really old games that you've been interested in but can't play and games where the game mechanics would drive you insane if you were playing them yourself.  Obviously, creativity and good commentary is key. 

Well, Metal Gear Solid 4 is the perfect game because a.) it's fucked up as shit, and b.) there is no gameplay so you're not missing out on shit. So, I've been watchingTHIS LP on the game and have to know what people's opinions are.  I liked MGS and MGS2 even though the plot eventually turned nonsensical, but this is a whole different story.  There really isn't a great level design layout for stealth gameplay and, well....the cut scenes are garbage. 


I can see it being enjoyable, but can anyone take this series seriously from now on?

[PyroMenace]

MGS2 made it clear on how crazy Kojima wanted the series to go. At that point it was just one of those things where you watch it just for the sake of experiencing the unexpected and seeing if he can take it even farther. I mean how can you not enjoy a cyborg ninja and a vampire endlessly fight in the most epic way possible?

Also nanomachines.

[gpw11]

The entire series is like the most ridiculous magnum opus ever.

[PyroMenace]

It is what it is, love it or hate it.

[K-man]

You also understand that every Metal Gear game was made with the intentions of there not being a sequel.  So MGS2 had to stretch a little to tie into 1, 3 had to stretch some more, 4 basically had to work very hard to tie it all together.  I think they succeeded beautifully considering what they had tie up.  Some of it is nonsensical, sure.  But they always had a way of toeing the lines of "reality" in the games.

[TheOtherBelmont]

Didn't you guys know that Hideo Kojima is this awesome?

[gpw11]

You also understand that every Metal Gear game was made with the intentions of there not being a sequel.  So MGS2 had to stretch a little to tie into 1, 3 had to stretch some more, 4 basically had to work very hard to tie it all together.  I think they succeeded beautifully considering what they had tie up.  Some of it is nonsensical, sure.  But they always had a way of toeing the lines of "reality" in the games.

NANOMACHINES

By no means am I saying it's not enjoyable...it's just that it's retarded.

Didn't you guys know that Hideo Kojima is this awesome?

Ha, I was watching some of these while sick the other day.  Awesome. They also have ones from the guy who created Mario (not even going to try to spell it) and Gabe Newell...always in front of that same building.  Awesome.