Author Topic: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company  (Read 4768 times)

Offline idolminds

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Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 12:18:51 PM »
Monster Cable: "Roar!"
Blue Jeans Cable: "STFU."

Monster things Blue Jeans Cable is infringing on some of their design patents. They make some vague threats. Too bad for them the president of BJC was a lawyer for nearly two decades. Long read, but Monster got owned.

Quote
Not only am I unintimidated by litigation; I sometimes rather miss it.
Classic.

Offline scottws

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 12:41:05 PM »
Monster cable needs to die anyway.  I think they are one of the biggest reasons cable prices are so high.

Cables at a store like Radio Shack and Best Buy are seriously marked up like a couple thousand percent.  A guy I know works at Best Buy.  They get store items at 5% over store cost.  I get all my cables through him.  Yeah, like I'm going to pay $40.00 for a USB cable when I can get it from him for like $1.05.  It's the same for every kind of cable.  I blame Monster for setting the bar high and desensitizing consumers to high cable prices.

Edit:  I finally read the guy's response.  Holy crap he bitch-slapped them to kingdom come!  That was awesome!
« Last Edit: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 01:45:15 PM by scottws »

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 01:08:42 PM »
I'm still enjoying that long read, but this really tickled me:

Quote
Also,  please provide me all of the information referenced above as it relates to your expired patent D323643, a copy of which I am attaching.

. . .

But if one grants the sort of breadth to these patents that you appear to wish to do, a problem arises for Monster.  D323643 is the least dissimilar to the Tartan connector of any of the patents, and stands as an obstacle to any claim of infringement of the others because it establishes prior art; if its scope, like the others, is granted the breadth you argue for, then the Tartan connector falls plainly under the prior art and cannot constitute an infringement of the later, and more dissimilar, patents.

See what he's doing?  Under patent law, something which was around before a patent was issued cannot infringe on the patent.  It's called "prior art".  He's using Monster's own expired patent to establish prior art.  :D

Edit:  Outstanding.  I think I have a new hero.  This attitude so needs to spread.

Monster cable needs to die anyway.  I think they are one of the biggest reasons cable prices are so high.

Cables at a store like Radio Shack and Best Buy are seriously marked up like a couple thousand percent.  A guy I know works at Best Buy.  They get store items at 5% over store cost.  I get all my cables through him.  Yeah, like I'm going to pay $40.00 for a USB cable when I can get it from him for like $1.05.  It's the same for every kind of cable.  I blame Monster for setting the bar high and desensitizing consumers to high cable prices.

I got a Pioneer upscaling/progressive DVD player for the 42" plasma set downstairs about 2 weeks ago at Best Buy.  That was around $90.  They wanted $60 for an HDMI cable.  Yeah, right.  Then the guy told me that they had a bunch of returned, opened 6' Monster component cables for $10 apiece.  I took one set.  I bet you they still made a good deal of profit.  Those probably go for $60 also, at retail.

My brother once told me of a website that sells HDMI cables for single-digit prices.  Gotta email him.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 01:30:25 PM by Cobra951 »

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 05:54:56 PM »
I agree.  Having just gotten an HDTV and a PS3, cable prices have really come to my attention.  There was a lot of "WTF?" going on when I was looking for an HDMI cable.  I've always disliked Monster, and frankly I don't think they even make a quality product.  I've known numerous people who've shelled out the extra money only to have the cables fail in some manner.

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I am "uncompromising" in the most literal sense of the word.  If Monster Cable proceeds with litigation against me I will pursue the same merits-driven approach; I do not compromise with bullies and I would rather spend fifty thousand dollars on defense than give you a dollar of unmerited settlement funds.  As for signing a licensing agreement for intellectual property which I have not infringed: that will not happen, under any circumstances, whether it makes economic sense or not.

Someone needs to just clear the red tape out of the way and give this guy a baseball bat.  That letter was awesome.  For those who just read the first few paragraphs... keep going.  It just gets better.

EDIT - Well, shit... I guess this guy offers his cable at cheap prices, too, so this isn't just blowing smoke (provided that the product works well, which he seems to address directly in a little FAQ there).  No wonder Monster wants him dead.  Ironically, they probably provided him with the best advertising he could possibly hope for.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline scottws

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 06:06:04 PM »
I don't think they are cheap.  They are charging $40-50 for 4' component cables.  Hell, 3' standard A/V cables are just shy of $50 and 6' standard stereo cables are $44.  That's crazy!

I guess the price premium comes from the fact they are a small operatoin and seem to do everything custom-to-order.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 06:19:19 PM »
Shit, you're right.  All I was looking at was their low-end HDMI cables.  Though the prices on their higher end ones aren't terrible compared to what you'll spend at Best Buy.  Well under half price.  The component stuff is nuts, though.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline shock

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 06:29:01 PM »
I never understood why their prices are so god damn high.

I bought an HDMI/DVI cable on Amazon for $25, while it was going for 150+ at Best Buy from Monster Cable.  That was a while ago.. but it's absolutely ridiculous.  My cable works perfectly and has worked for about 4 years now without a problem.
Suck it, Pugnate.

Offline JacksRag(e)

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 06:30:54 PM »
At the least, they mention that the higher-priced cables aren't really necessary and that you would be ok with just the lower priced cables somewhere on the faqs, I think.

And the site you're talking about, Cobra, is monoprice.com, I believe.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 08:45:36 PM »
That was really awesome. The problem with trademark/patent law generally isn't in the laws themselves, but the jackassery going on in the lower levels of the Patent and Trademark Office as well as all the invalid lawsuits that get thrown around in hopes of a settlement.  If more people were like this guy (or rather if more people had the luxury to be like this guy) that would happen a lot less.  Again, that was awesome.


Monster cable needs to die anyway.  I think they are one of the biggest reasons cable prices are so high.

Cables at a store like Radio Shack and Best Buy are seriously marked up like a couple thousand percent.  A guy I know works at Best Buy.  They get store items at 5% over store cost.  I get all my cables through him.  Yeah, like I'm going to pay $40.00 for a USB cable when I can get it from him for like $1.05.  It's the same for every kind of cable.  I blame Monster for setting the bar high and desensitizing consumers to high cable prices.

Edit:  I finally read the guy's response.  Holy crap he bitch-slapped them to kingdom come!  That was awesome!

I worked at Futureshop, which is a Canadian branch and competitor of Best Buy (interesting legal dynamic there by the way) for a few months when I had to make some money on paper for taxation purposes.  I think I've talked about this before, but it sucked.  In fact, the only way it could have sucked more is if I really had to work there and actually took it seriously rather than spending my time fucking around pulling pranks, seeing how far I could push my 30 bosses, completely fucking up their inventory, and then displaying complete shock and indignation when I got called on anything.  Anyways, all that aside I had the same discount (it's not actually just pure cost +5%, but total projected cost +5%.  I.E. they figure shipping, labour, and a variety of other things into it, so the price they're actually paying for the product from the manufacturer is actually lot lower.) and spent a lot of time figuring out the markup on pretty much everything in the store and to be honest I don't think Monster is completely to blame for high prices on cables; it's more of an effect of the competitive business model used by electronics retailers.

About 80% of the stock is break even on costs or pretty close to it.  Think about what you see in a Best Buy store.  Games: No markup at all. Computers, Televisions: very little markup (when I was there HD and LCD tvs actually had almost no markup).  Appliances: Large - almost no markup, small - medium scale markup. And so on and so forth.

These companies have little markup on big ticket items which bring people into the store because that's where shit is the most competitive.  That's where people used to make all the profit, and that's why these stores have killed smaller appliance and electronics stores.  They make almost all of their money off of shit that most people figure you can't get most other places (computer components like DVD burners and videocards) as well as what is typically considered an accessory.  That's not limited to cables at all.  Ink is a huge one (although this is more of a huge scam between the manufacturer and the store rather than just the store itself), as is paper, CD cases, little LED key chains, all that kind of shit.  That's what pays the massive rent for these large stores as well as all their labour.  The warranty sales make up the profit.  The price of cables from standard usb, CAT5, phone, all the way to HDMI reflect this and it would remain the same even if Monster wasn't around.

That's not to say, however, that the entire high end cable market isn't a scam.  It totally fucking is from the way they induce interference on demo units to help the salesman prove that you need to buy a monster power bar and cable set for an extra $200 all the way to the simple fact that it aparently doesn't make any difference: insulated cable is insulated cable no matter what it costs.  There was a story on digg about a guy at some conference (which I'm guessing had something to do with the A/V industry) tricking a group of people into thinking that plain old copper wire (it also could have been a coat hanger) had the best picture over pretty much the most expensive cables out there.

Offline scottws

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 08:57:46 PM »
Yeah, I guess you're right.  I've noticed that accessories for things just seem ridiculously expensive.  $30 for a piece of rubber or pleather that goes around your  cell phone.  $300 for some shitty iPod dock.  $100 for an iHome, which must be the most ugly A/V device ever made (orange lights on top, blue backlight for the clock?  Why?!).  And of course $125 for a HDMI cable.

Hell I saw Radio Shack selling a single white LED for $4.99.  Meanwhile I've found them online for $0.15/ea.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 09:13:08 PM »
My cousin used to work for DigiKey, a large electronic parts company. She got an employee discount on pretty much everything. You know those watch batteries that you go to a store and pay $3 each for? She could get them for $0.15.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 10:10:29 PM »
OK, so that's the explanation of why some stores try to rip you off blind on certain items.  That doesn't mean you have to let them.

The link Que supplied above to the cheap Tartan HDMI cables tells the story straight.  If HDMI works, it works perfectly.  It's digital.  While there may be some authority behind expensive analog cables, the same logic doesn't apply to digital.  Resistance losses due to narrow gauge or using tin instead of gold or silver don't matter, as long as the bits make it across.

Offline K-man

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 10:52:26 PM »


My brother once told me of a website that sells HDMI cables for single-digit prices.  Gotta email him.

He's probably referring to Monoprice.com

Got a 6 ft hdmi cable for around 8 bucks shipped when I bought my ps3.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 11:00:54 PM »
Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day when a friend was talking about how much his PS3 cables cost. HDMI either carries a signal or doesn't.  A price variation shouldn't really exist apart from different prices for different lengths.

And yeah, you're totally right about not having to let them 'take you'. You have other options so if you don't need something right away don't go into a brick and mortar store.  With electronics and electronic accessories, all they really sell is convenience and customer service for those who don't want to spend hours researching products (although those motherfuckers will lie like goddamn bitches in order to sell you a shitty or faulty product as long as the markup/commission/bonus is high).  Don't forget every time you're walking into a store you're paying for the shipping, the rent, the utilities, the sales staff, and every thing else associated with having a nice looking storefront.  You have to keep that in mind if price is really an issue.  But at the same time, you can't really just blame retailers.  Manufacturers play a part as well, but retailers have a ton of overhead to cover that an online store or warehouse won't. 

Oh, and in case you can't tell I fucking hate sales people.  Oh, and the consumerist.com but I don't even know why I brought that up.

Offline ren

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 06:27:37 AM »
That was the greatest thing I've read in so long.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 11:17:41 AM »
I missed the bread before and only saw the ham salad.  :)

That was really awesome. The problem with trademark/patent law generally isn't in the laws themselves, but the jackassery going on in the lower levels of the Patent and Trademark Office as well as all the invalid lawsuits that get thrown around in hopes of a settlement.  If more people were like this guy (or rather if more people had the luxury to be like this guy) that would happen a lot less.  Again, that was awesome.

I'm not sure what you mean by jackassery at the lower levels of the patent office, but I couldn't agree more about the abuse of the legal system based on patents.  Legal bullying is so easy under our system.  A simple change would curb all that tremendously, and that's to make the loser in any civil litigation pay court costs and attorney's fees all around.  If defending yourself when you know you're right won't bankrupt you, then you're much more apt to do it in earnest.  This would have the added benefit of curbing abuse of product liability laws as well.

That's not to say, however, that the entire high end cable market isn't a scam.  It totally fucking is from the way they induce interference on demo units to help the salesman prove that you need to buy a monster power bar and cable set for an extra $200 all the way to the simple fact that it aparently doesn't make any difference: insulated cable is insulated cable no matter what it costs.  There was a story on digg about a guy at some conference (which I'm guessing had something to do with the A/V industry) tricking a group of people into thinking that plain old copper wire (it also could have been a coat hanger) had the best picture over pretty much the most expensive cables out there.

I'm in agreement here too.  The fact is that copper is an excellent conductor, and that the advantage of using precious metals is negligible.  As long as the construction is of good quality all around, there is no need for gold or silver anywhere.  All the claims of fancy cable construction, like the stranding process, are bullshit as well.  High-cost cables have been the snake oil of hi-fi salesmen since I was your age.  And as the signals go digital, they become even more of a shameless ripoff.

Offline WindAndConfusion

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 05:48:18 PM »
My brother once told me of a website that sells HDMI cables for single-digit prices.  Gotta email him.
Amazon has HDMI cable "Used & New" from about $5 including shipping and handling. You could buy a dozen HDMI cables and a handful of adapters for the same price as a single Monster cable.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 07:04:22 PM »
Speaking of copper, it came to my attention a while back that the Chinese have been buying all of it that they can get their hands on.  The price has gone up quite a bit because of that, and people have actually taken to stealing it.  My aunt and uncle had their business (an answering service) grind to a halt because someone in their area went around and stole all the copper out of everything.  I don't know the exact details, but apparently stealing copper has become a major problem because of the scarcity.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline gpw11

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #18 on: Thursday, April 17, 2008, 01:12:07 AM »
Speaking of copper, it came to my attention a while back that the Chinese have been buying all of it that they can get their hands on.  The price has gone up quite a bit because of that, and people have actually taken to stealing it.  My aunt and uncle had their business (an answering service) grind to a halt because someone in their area went around and stole all the copper out of everything.  I don't know the exact details, but apparently stealing copper has become a major problem because of the scarcity.

Huge problem.  People (junkies) will break into construction sites here and rip out all the copper wiring. It's not really all that lucrative though.  High risk, a lot of time and work, and in the end of the day it's not like it's all that expensive. The scrap yards that buy it pay little because they know there's a high chance it's stolen and you can't sell it anywhere else or do anything with it. Pretty funny but not quite as funny as a year or so ago when people were stealing catalytic converters for platinum and whatever other precious metals are in there.   

Offline scottws

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 04:53:49 PM »
I was just thinking of Blue Jeans Cable and came across the Wikipedia page for Monster Cable.  Apparently Monster Cable has sued the companies that own Monster energy drink, the movie Monsters, Inc., the show Monster Garage, and the Monster.com employment website.

That's ridiculous.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 05:30:17 PM »
It's surprising that they would go anywhere.  The word "monster" can't possibly be trademarked.  Not in a sane world anyway.  (Maybe that's where my assumption fails.)

Offline scottws

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 06:07:06 PM »
Yeah, I wonder if they actually think they have a chance in any of those cases.  Though it seems that Monsters mode of business seems to try to sue companies for infringement but as part of a settlement agreement let them continue using the name under a license agreement (with royalties, of course).  Another form of potential income if you will.  They better be careful with that though.  Keep it up and judges might start throwing their cases out before they go anywhere.

Oh and another thing.  "Blue Jeans Cable" seems to be the high-end brand here.  They claim "broadcast quality" on their wires... the very best stuff.  Their "Tartan Cable" brand is definitely aimed more at the home user.  Much more affordable ($12.00 for Tartan 6' component vs. $51-58 for Blue Jeans 6' component).  Also the Tartan connectors are much more stylish than the Blue Jeans ones.  I went ahead and ordered 2 pairs of components and 2 pairs of stereo.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday, May 13, 2008, 07:10:38 PM »
Even if they have somehow trademarked 'Monster', isn't there a rule that trademarking any common word like that only protects you from direct competitors and companies trying to deliberately mislead people?

Offline scottws

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday, May 20, 2008, 04:45:57 PM »
It should be noted that trademark rights generally arise out of the use and/or registration (see below) of a mark in connection only with a specific type or range of products or services.

...

The extent to which a trademark owner may prevent unauthorized use of trademarks which are the same as or similar to its trademark depends on various factors such as whether its trademark is registered, the similarity of the trademarks involved, the similarity of the products and/or services involved, and whether the owner’s trademark is well known.
So it doesn't look like Monster Cable can truly try to trademark just the work "monster" or have any hope of the courts siding with them when they sue a company such as Monster.com or the producers of Monster Garage since they are clearly no where close to the same types of products or services.

I think Monster Cable is just hoping for some settlement money (to prevent the likelihood of far more expensive legal fees if the case went to the courtroom proper) or for someone to agree to sign a licensing agreement which would bring in additional revenue.

Offline scottws

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Re: Monster Cable messes with the wrong company
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday, May 20, 2008, 05:11:52 PM »
I just came across a letter from Mr. Kurt Denke himself about this whole mess.  A very interesting read:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/blue-jeans-followup

A gem from the letter:

Quote from: Kurt Denke
Monster Cable has a history of threatening litigation over intellectual property disputes on the very thinnest of grounds. For example, Monster sued the Disney Corporation over the title to the movie "Monsters, Inc."--evidently taking the peculiar view that the word "Monster," because it is a trade name for a brand of cables, may no longer be used commercially in its original etymological sense to describe an actual monster.

Great stuff!