Author Topic: Drug Testing at Work  (Read 3895 times)

Offline Ghandi

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Drug Testing at Work
« on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 08:47:48 AM »
How often do you get drug tested at work?

I'm applying for a job now (well, I've basically been hired after my positive results come in from the drug test) and I got drug tested today. It was actually pretty sneaky because he scheduled me for two 3-hour meetings today and tomorrow and he canceled them when I got in and gave me a drug test. I'm not worried about the results - I know that I will pass - but I was just surprised that he would be so coy about it. It was done by a cheek swab and not a urine test, which I found a little odd.

There's also random drug tests at the work, although generally "random" drug tests aren't so random.

Offline K-man

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #1 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 09:12:01 AM »
Generally I've only been drug tested upon being hired.  I wouldn't have any problem with random drug tests though.  In fact I'm all for them.

We do randomly drug test our drivers.  And it is truly random.

Offline scottws

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #2 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 11:20:28 AM »
I've only ever been drug tested prior to being hired.  At the ice company they did random drug tests for the drivers, but I technically wasn't a driver so I never had to do it.  They also tested CDL-licensed drivers (including me) if they had an accident in a company vehicle.  Those last two things are required by Ohio law.

Offline nickclone

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #3 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 11:44:38 AM »
Drug testing sucks, I don't see the point. If someone is a crack head...you're gonna know it. However, being an alcoholic is ok for some reason?

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #4 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 11:48:48 AM »
Alcohol is a legal product.  That's the difference.

Personally, I don't like the idea of drug testing either.  Why have a 4th Amendment if the courts are going to keep finding ways of nerfing it?

Offline nickclone

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #5 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 11:51:35 AM »
Alcohol is a legal product.  That's the difference.

Personally, I don't like the idea of drug testing either.  Why have a 4th Amendment if the courts are going to keep finding ways of nerfing it?

So, who cares about the legality of it? If they're drug testing just to see who may or may not be breaking the law, thats lame. If they're doing it to maintain a safe work environment, I could at least begin to understand it.

Offline iPPi

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #6 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 12:15:13 PM »
Never.

Offline K-man

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #7 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 01:55:56 PM »
I see the double standard with alcohol.  However, if for whatever reason my job tested for alcohol I would quit drinking because I'm in a good job, I make a decent amount of money, and to me that's worth more than being a slave to a substance.

Offline K-man

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #8 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 02:02:45 PM »
So, who cares about the legality of it? If they're drug testing just to see who may or may not be breaking the law, thats lame. If they're doing it to maintain a safe work environment, I could at least begin to understand it.

Well, aside from the safety aspect of it, it's a good way to determine the quality of employee being hired.  Most drug users I know aren't the most reliable people in the world, and there are huge potential liability issues.  Of course there are going to be exceptions, but I definitely would not knowingly hire a drug user into my company.  I'd also have strong reservations about hiring a compulsive drinker into the company as well.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #9 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 02:06:52 PM »
That's my thinking too.  A habitual user of illegal drugs is less apt to be honest, forthright.

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #10 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 03:59:14 PM »
I don't necessarily agree with that. I've known plenty of honest and dishonest people on both sides of the table. Obviously many drugs will create dishonesty due to the nature of the drug, and that is understandable. I guess it depends what drug you are talking about - you can't really lump them all into one category. For instance, I see a huge disparity between a guy who is doing lines in the bathroom at work and a guy who likes to smoke a joint to unwind on the weekends.

Offline scottws

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #11 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 04:23:44 PM »
That's my thinking too.  A habitual user of illegal drugs is less apt to be honest, forthright.
...and might do worse things like embezzle petty cash to buy drugs, do the drugs on the premises, not come in to work at all, etc.  I've seen it all first hand.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #12 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 04:41:49 PM »
Quote
that's worth more than being a slave to a substance.

Lets not kid ourselves though, if you're quitting a recreational activity that you enjoy simply because your boss doesn't approve, you're basically the definition of a slave.


We don't really do that here for the most part, but I disagree with it under most circumstances.  Test prospective employees before you hire them? Fine.  Test people who operate heavy machinery, doctors, teachers, and people who are in positions to put the public or other employees at risk (within reason)? Fine.  Test an accountant, banker, or whatever?  No go.   It's none of your business. Your employer should be keeping the fuck out of what you do when you're not on their dime or representing them and focus on your job performance.

I could understand the argument that it was to weed out those predisposed to stealing and fucking up if it a.) actually had statistical evidence showing that Johnston was going to rob you blind to pay for the joint he smokes while fishing on the weekend and b.) employers were free and willing to weed out those predisposed to stealing and fucking up for other reasons, like chronic lack of sleep, playing MMORPGs, facebook addiction, poor financial planning abilities, other hobbies, personal bankruptcy, divorce, bad upbringing, cigarette addiction, being fucking stupid, shifty eyes, taking unnecessary prescription medication, cosmetic surgery, any strikes on any academic records going back to grade school, bad social skills, blah blah blah. 

Actually, no, I wouldn't support any of those reasons either.

Offline K-man

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #13 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 06:24:07 PM »
Lets not kid ourselves though, if you're quitting a recreational activity that you enjoy simply because your boss doesn't approve, you're basically the definition of a slave.

The boss not approving is one thing, the difference between drinking alcohol and having a job is entirely another.  I have financial responsibilities and obligations that are much more important than alcohol.  That's not being a slave, that's being an adult. 

We don't really do that here for the most part, but I disagree with it under most circumstances.  Test prospective employees before you hire them? Fine.  Test people who operate heavy machinery, doctors, teachers, and people who are in positions to put the public or other employees at risk (within reason)? Fine.  Test an accountant, banker, or whatever?  No go.   It's none of your business. Your employer should be keeping the fuck out of what you do when you're not on their dime or representing them and focus on your job performance.

It's been my experience that you're not tested unless you're providing them with a reason or valid suspicion to do so.  And it's not a stretch to think that a habitual drug user's job performance will be significantly less productive than someone who does not use drugs, which means it becomes a problem.


I could understand the argument that it was to weed out those predisposed to stealing and fucking up if it a.) actually had statistical evidence showing that Johnston was going to rob you blind to pay for the joint he smokes while fishing on the weekend and b.) employers were free and willing to weed out those predisposed to stealing and fucking up for other reasons, like chronic lack of sleep, playing MMORPGs, facebook addiction, poor financial planning abilities, other hobbies, personal bankruptcy, divorce, bad upbringing, cigarette addiction, being fucking stupid, shifty eyes, taking unnecessary prescription medication, cosmetic surgery, any strikes on any academic records going back to grade school, bad social skills, blah blah blah. 

Actually, no, I wouldn't support any of those reasons either.

I think most of what you listed there are valid reasons to discipline someone.  Maybe not at first, give them the chance to improve upon their problem.  But to put up with it continually as an employer?  Hell no.  I hate how people continually make excuses for their behavior and actions.  We're living in a world in which we feel entitled to too many things and want to cry about what we don't have, how our childhood sucked, how life is hard, etc.  That works for a while, but eventually the excuses are no longer valid and you have to take responsibility for yourself (but that's another discussion entirely).  You as an employee are selling a service to the company you work for.  If your service is below par (due to any of the reasons you listed), then you're essentially cheating the employer out of service.  Do I think the world is that cut and dry?  Not exactly.  I think some instances warrant a chance to correct the problem at hand.  But the mentality of working hard for what you want has been lost for the most part I fear, and I think that as a society that will come back to bite us in the ass hard at some point.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #14 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 07:15:33 PM »
Lets not kid ourselves though, if you're quitting a recreational activity that you enjoy simply because your boss doesn't approve, you're basically the definition of a slave.

I agree completely.  I think it's an unreasonable search, which is unconstitutional in this country.  They'll argue that it isn't, and that even if it is, it only applies to the government, not employers in general.  I disagree.  Laws and protections are meaningless if employers aren't bound by them.  It may seem that I contradicted myself, which is why I'm posting now, to explain.  Given that random drug tests are allowed, without any reasonable cause for them, I think their purpose is not only to make sure that employees aren't high on the job, but also to dig into their character, and their private behavior.  This should all be off-limits to other private citizens.  Most employers are private citizens.  Job performance should be the only determining factor.  It isn't.  I know drug tests serve their purpose.  So do roadside sobriety tests on passing drivers.  So would randomly dragging people into a closed room and interrogating them.  So would many forms of intimidation.  All these techniques are effective in revealing information that the victims would not give voluntarily.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #15 on: Friday, May 16, 2008, 10:54:33 PM »
I sort of agree with Cobra, because he's technically right, but on the other hand I find myself nodding a lot more reading what K-Man wrote.  People whine about rights in this country all the time, yet so many are just fucking scumbags who contribute nothing and spend their days draining in any way they can.  He said a lot of stuff I would more or less just parrot here... so while I understand the wrongness of certain specifics, I've also spent many years working around pathetic slackers who don't deserve any of the money they're paid.  I'm far from the epitome of career-mindset, but I pull my own weight and have a pretty firm work ethic, and it bugs me when other people don't.  Obviously that doesn't *directly* relate to some dude who smokes the occasional joint, as he might be a perfectly good worker, and the bridge here is a little thin, but people get away with so much it's hard to blame employers for trying to find ways to ferret out as many douchebags as they can.

It's a sad sign of the times, regardless.  If people were less shitty maybe there wouldn't be so much paranoia.

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Offline gpw11

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #16 on: Saturday, May 17, 2008, 03:13:44 AM »
The boss not approving is one thing, the difference between drinking alcohol and having a job is entirely another.  I have financial responsibilities and obligations that are much more important than alcohol.  That's not being a slave, that's being an adult. 

I disagree.  Allowing others to exert an unreasonable amount of control over your personal life simply because you can't think of a single other way to get by without bending over and giving them dominion over you is pretty much the opposite of being an adult.  Being an adult is taking on responsibilities, but not at the cost of  loss of your absolute personal freedom.  Having to explain to your boss why you slipped up and ordered that beer at the football game a week before the surprise test when it has nothing to do with your job performance or ability to fulfill your end of the contract is just being a bitch. Entering into a contract which has a stipulation stating you're not to drink (think oil rigs and dry camps), is an entirely different story as there is rhyme and reason to it.  Testing a stock broker is just exerting control, and if you've left yourself in a position where you're either not willing or able to fight for your right to make choices as a functioning adult, then you've made some bad choices. Choosing to not drink for financial, health, whatever, reasons is free will.  Being forced because you've become dependent upon a single employer and have no other way to possibly make that car payment isn't.

Quote
It's been my experience that you're not tested unless you're providing them with a reason or valid suspicion to do so.  And it's not a stretch to think that a habitual drug user's job performance will be significantly less productive than someone who does not use drugs, which means it becomes a problem.

And as such, you should be disciplined or punished based on performance, not the reason behind it.  If some financial planner can get away with doing blow off the back of hookers every Saturday night and still fulfill his part of the agreement, what is it to his boss how he spends his free time?  If he isn't performing, then that's the problem and it should be dealt with the same way regardless of the cause. Your employer doesn't need to know why you're a fuck up, just that you are a fuck up and they can deal with that as they choose.

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I think most of what you listed there are valid reasons to discipline someone.  Maybe not at first, give them the chance to improve upon their problem.  But to put up with it continually as an employer?  Hell no.

Same as above, it should be a case of being judged upon performance and whether or not you maintain the output agreed upon. There's no need for tests or intrusions into your private life, no need to estimate how someone's performance might be affected by certain variables because they eat meat, don't drink enough water, or bought a pickup with a high-interest loan. Look at the output, and if it isn't satisfactory, base the actions upon that, not the fact that they're too poor to afford a car, catch the bus, and as a result might get the flu and spread it around the office.

Quote
People whine about rights in this country all the time, yet so many are just fucking scumbags who contribute nothing and spend their days draining in any way they can.  He said a lot of stuff I would more or less just parrot here... so while I understand the wrongness of certain specifics, I've also spent many years working around pathetic slackers who don't deserve any of the money they're paid.  I'm far from the epitome of career-mindset, but I pull my own weight and have a pretty firm work ethic, and it bugs me when other people don't.  Obviously that doesn't *directly* relate to some dude who smokes the occasional joint, as he might be a perfectly good worker, and the bridge here is a little thin, but people get away with so much it's hard to blame employers for trying to find ways to ferret out as many douchebags as they can.

Yeah, I agree that you can't blame the employers, but as an employee you certainly shouldn't support it or anything else that diminishes your rights and gives your employer more control. The only reason to do so would be if it directly benefited you, and I have a hard time believing anyone here is really in direct competition for a promotion with the crack head over cubicle 13. People are going to try to take as much as they can from you, it's pretty much the nature of life, but you certainly shouldn't just let them for no reason.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #17 on: Saturday, May 17, 2008, 08:29:47 AM »
Yeah, I agree.  I don't really have any personal experience there because I've never been randomly tested for anything.  Have only been tested prior to being hired.

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Offline JacksRag(e)

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #18 on: Saturday, May 17, 2008, 04:00:44 PM »
Reading this thread over makes me kinda glad I enjoy neither of the activities.  I'm just a sadsack boring individual.

Offline WindAndConfusion

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #19 on: Saturday, May 17, 2008, 04:03:47 PM »
The boss not approving is one thing, the difference between drinking alcohol and having a job is entirely another.  I have financial responsibilities and obligations that are much more important than alcohol.  That's not being a slave, that's being an adult. 
I enjoy going shoe-shopping with my girlfriend, and I believe it's an important part of our relationship. She has fun buying things with my money, and I have fun standing around carrying the shit she bought with my money. That's not being pussy-whipped, that's being a nice guy.

Offline poomcgoo

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Re: Drug Testing at Work
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 11:06:24 AM »
I have to agree that most drug users are often of less integrity, but at the same time most drug users know ways to get around a drug test.  You can absolutely be tested for alcohol, too, it's just out of your system in about a day so it's only usually used for monitoring somebody who is not allowed to drink.