Author Topic: Outlawing cyberbullying  (Read 3338 times)

Offline idolminds

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Outlawing cyberbullying
« on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 12:29:04 AM »
Our government at work.

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Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Internet trolls and 99% of Xbox Live users beware!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #1 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 12:32:16 AM »
Well, we all knew it would happen.  When people stop policing themselves, it becomes necessary for someone else to police them.  I'm not very thrilled about this and would rather not see it go through, at least not the way it is now.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #2 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 12:38:57 AM »
But does this really need policing? Oh no, someone said some bad things about me ON THE INTERNET! What ever shall I do? For fucks sake, tell your kids to ignore it. That's your job as a parent. If its so bad, maybe they shouldn't use the internet. Or cell phones. We all lived without them at one point.

You know this is totally a showpiece law. "We're protecting the children!" because elections are coming. How the fuck do you enforce it? The FBI is going to track down all these people? Whos even going to make such a call. "I'd like to report a crime. Some anonymous moron called me a name on the internet. Track him down and ruin his life. Thanks."

Offline gpw11

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #3 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 12:44:07 AM »
I don't know.  Harassment and uttering threats are both already crimes, really what they should be doing is researching the technology to allow people to punch jackasses in the face over the internet.  That's generally what keeps people in line in social interactions anyways.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #4 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 06:44:50 AM »
Yeah, see... what idol says is what I'm afraid of.  It just doesn't make sense.  I know that harassment can be a big deal, and a big problem, but there's no good way to enforce this without invading people's rights.  And touchy little dipshits who can't take criticism or can't understand that they're actually douchebags and people are just responding to their douchebagism are going to start abusing the living hell out of it.  Let's face it, what happened to Megan Meier was pretty sad, but you can probably count legitimate cases like that in the US on one hand, and even then it's questionable whether or not there's anything that should legally be done about it.  Like idol said, if somebody was actually being a fucking parent, none of it would have happened in the first place.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline scottws

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #5 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 09:03:04 AM »
But does this really need policing? Oh no, someone said some bad things about me ON THE INTERNET! What ever shall I do? For fucks sake, tell your kids to ignore it. That's your job as a parent. If its so bad, maybe they shouldn't use the internet. Or cell phones. We all lived without them at one point.

You know this is totally a showpiece law. "We're protecting the children!" because elections are coming. How the fuck do you enforce it? The FBI is going to track down all these people? Whos even going to make such a call. "I'd like to report a crime. Some anonymous moron called me a name on the internet. Track him down and ruin his life. Thanks."
I think you gloss over it a bit.  Kids now are setting up hate websites about other kids in their class and other kids comment on it and bash the kid.  You know in school you can't just "ignore it."  School is pretty much your social life.

I even saw a news story recently where the parents of a girl's friend set up a Myspace page posing as a boy at school that she liked, and they talked for awhile then all of a sudden they used their private chatter and made it public and everyone turned on her and taunted her, and she killed herself.

Some crazy shit is happening out there man.  Saying "ignore it" is not going to make the crushed emotions and taunting at school go away.  The shit that's happening now is a whole lot worse that what was going on in schools when we were kids.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #6 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 09:37:41 AM »
Yeah, all that ever happened to me was being physically beat up in school. A mean website is way worse. :P

That incident you mentioned is the main reason for this new law, but there was more to it. Heres this interesting tidbit:
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After telling her mother, Christina "Tina" Meier, about the increasing number of hurtful messages, the two got into an argument over the vulgar language Megan used in response to the messages and the fact that she did not log off when her mother told her to.[4] After the argument, Meier ran upstairs to her room. She was found twenty minutes later, hanging by the neck in a closet.
Bad parenting. Your (most likely emotionally depressed) child is getting harassed and then brings it to your attention. Instead of giving good advice and helping you argue with her over the language she was using in response to it.

I don't think a mean website is really any big deal. Kids in school say shit behind your back all the time. The only difference is you don't know about it. A website you can find and then read these things. Thats whats changed. Again...ignore it. Anyone that would post such a thing is a loser (who takes time to make a website about a person they hate?), and the same could be said about people that believe what they read on such a site.

But I forget that kids are total wusses now and stuff is always someone elses fault.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #7 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 10:29:21 AM »
I don't know. I don't really seeing this as infringing on rights or doing any more government parenting that already happens. The new law just seems allow people to put cases like the Megan Meier thing through court more easily rather than creating a group of people to actively police the thing. So, when something really bad happens, there can be a lawsuit because there's some sort of law in the books and the case doesn't need to be made from scratch. Think of it like an updated version of the slander laws. While those seem to be abused often, in principle they aren't entirely bad things.

I suppose you can argue that this people new avenues of abuse, but that's going to happen either way. That's a problem with the society, not the laws.

Offline ren

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #8 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 10:44:40 AM »
Like Scott said, kids can get terrorized online. When you're that young the kids at school are basically your entire life. Your self-esteem is completely wrapped up in their perceptions of you. Minor bullying and name-calling is one thing, that's a part of life and the punishments for that should remain minor. On the other hand, some kids can be really fucking mean and need the threat of legitimate punishment to keep them in line.

This has little to do with parents. It's like bullying person to person. The victim won't want to tell his parents because they're embarassed, the bullier won't tell his parents so they don't get in trouble. Kids know how to use the internet and will cover their tracks so the parents won't find out.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #9 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 11:41:17 AM »
Oh, please.  Sticks and stones.  What more speech are they going to make criminal now?  One disturbed girl offs herself, and now it's the whole internet's fault.  Great.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #10 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 11:48:25 AM »
Wow. That is.. wow.

What's the next step? Websites with offensive language are banned? Watch out Maddox!

Offline ren

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #11 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 11:56:45 AM »
Oh, please.  Sticks and stones.  What more speech are they going to make criminal now?  One disturbed girl offs herself, and now it's the whole internet's fault.  Great.

I definitely did not read the article and just read the thread. You used the word criminal which made me go back and realize I was wrong on this. I had just assumed that they were saying kids were going to be liable for saying things online in the same way they would be at school and be punished in the same way.

After actually reading it I'm with Sy and "The new law just seems allow people to put cases like the Megan Meier thing through court more easily rather than creating a group of people to actively police the thing." and saying this will have no real impact to most people and won't matter.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #12 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 12:30:46 PM »
Well, my post was not aimed at you, but at the event.  It just happened to come after yours.  It's no secret that I support First Amendment rights above all special interests, as should anyone who believes the Constitution is the bedrock of our system of justice.

Offline ren

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #13 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 01:00:58 PM »
Then what do you think should be the punishment in the Megan Meier case?

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #14 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 01:44:11 PM »
There's a strong case for crippling civil liability.  In other words, a multi-million-dollar lawsuit where the defendants lose their shirts, and everything else.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #15 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 04:47:30 PM »
It's an interesting issue. On the Megan Meier case you'd be seriously hard pressed to blame any of that on bad parenting. The parents were very involved in their daughter's life in the way you should be involved in your manically depressed teenager's life.  Yes, there was an argument, but looking at the incident leading up to it as a whole, I'd be suprised if there wasn't one.  Multiple phone calls, girl getting extremely agitated, mother telling her to get off the internet and they'd talk about it when she'd get home, and she wouldn't. Argument ensues. Far from negligence or undue authoritarian exercises there. It's easy to say she could have handled it better, it's a different story to actually put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Where this comes into play is a twisted and malicious act by an adult toward a child, and the internet was used as a tool. It falls into a legal gray area, and as such there is a legislative vacuum where the police and federal government would not act because they knew technically no laws were broken simply because it occurred on the internet instead of in a chain letter, in person, on a physical bulletin board, or even on the phone. So, what are you left with?  No where to turn really.  Sure, there's civil court, but civil court by nature isn't meant for criminal acts.  There are things you can't put a price on and it's not a system built around justice - rather renumeration, and it's more of a pissing contest between lawyers with the higher paid often just winning out.  In some cases it serves the purpose, in others it does not.  Trust me, you would rather lose a civil loss of life case than a manslaughter or murder case.  It's not even about the jail time, it's about the burden of proof and official government and public recognition that yes, you are a criminal and capable of grossly immoral acts.

So, you have cases like this where there really is no sense of justice and what comes of it?  When people feel a system has failed a secondary system almost always rises up to take it's place and serve 'natural justice'.  The woman accused of harassing Meier has had every ounce of her personal information posted on the internet, her workplace and home have been flooded with calls, there has been vandalism to their house, and so on. A dangerous situation for everyone.  This is usually when lawmakers have to take notice and make it so that in the future the justice system can step in so there is at least a public perception of justice attempting to be served.

It's a bit of a tough issue because on one hand you have the freedom of speech, yet on the other you to consider that your freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose.  Practicality demands a trade off where if you expect freedom of speech while enjoying legal protection from the natural and instinctual reaction of violent personal retribution, some sort of compromise must be made where certain things are indeed off limits.  I'm not necessarily saying this is the case here, and I'd lean more towards it not being, but it's certainly far from the most worrying recent incident of free speech curbing I've come across lately.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #16 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 06:13:42 PM »
Heres another wrinkle. In this one particular case it was an adult bothering a minor. But in most other cases I imagine it would be fellow (underage) students bothering each other. Who do they go after then?

Offline gpw11

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Re: Outlawing cyberbullying
« Reply #17 on: Monday, June 09, 2008, 07:01:07 PM »
I'd imagine you'd still go after the kids, just like in any other crime (civil law = go after the parents).  Minors can still be charged, it's just the penalties are different.  It's kind of semantical, but Sav most likely hit the nail on the head; the law most likely wouldn't be there to be enforced whenever it could be, but enforced when there were no other options.  Realistically, it's far from the stupidest or most useless laws on the books.