Topic: Borderlands: Diablo with guns

[MysterD]

Hmm, try putting an exclamation mark with the question mark, making it come off as more an exclamatory statement than an inquisitive one i.e. "What about us Retail Box owners?! Huh?!! HUH?!!!"

Yeah - another one of my stupidities...
And believe me, I got many of those... 

[Xessive]

Haha whatever, man! Take it eeeeeasy!

I'm seriously thinking about the GOTY edition now.

Btw, patch 1.31 supposedly allows Steam achievements in Borderlands (I think we're on v1.40 right now). Have you tried registering your Borderlands CD key with Steam? It's possible that Gearbox have set up some arrangement with Valve (just like Epic did for UT3).

[MysterD]

Haha whatever, man! Take it eeeeeasy!

I'm seriously thinking about the GOTY edition now.

Btw, patch 1.31 supposedly allows Steam achievements in Borderlands (I think we're on v1.40 right now). Have you tried registering your Borderlands CD key with Steam? It's possible that Gearbox have set up some arrangement with Valve (just like Epic did for UT3).

Steam is not accepting Borderlands Retail currently.

[gpw11]

You know, I can't get back into this game at all.  I mean, I'd like to, but my quest log has like 40 unfinished quests and I don't know which are story related.  Most of them are at trivial difficulty now too, so it's kind of tedious.

[W7RE]

Oh, D, I knew it was probably rhetorical, I just wanted an excuse to bitch a little again.

[MysterD]

Oh, D, I knew it was probably rhetorical, I just wanted an excuse to bitch a little again.

VERY Understandable.

[Cobra951]

Well, I succumbed to temptation and got this as a downloadable.  It's 3.3 GB, so for about twice the space and money cost of most new XBLA games, I'm hoping to get at least 5 times the enjoyment.  It runs perfectly, and I mean perfectly (so far).  Smooth visuals and great control.  Loving it, but a little advice on all these guns piling up in my inventory would be helpful.  I'm afraid to sell most of these.  What's the stat hierarchy here?  Does accuracy always trump power?  Does elemental damage matter more than normal damage?  I read some of the posts here on sniping being iffy, and SMGs being great, and I finally got me one of those.  The other slot has this Lady Finger scoped pistol.  I sub in a scattergun occasionally, but those only seem useful just before you're about to become some ugly's lunch.  I'm at Level 8, and had to force myself to quit.  Have to get sleep.  I'll check in tomorrow.

[gpw11]

The gun system is really complex and I have a hard time judging a lot of guns for the most part.  That said, I'd always lean towards elemental unless the base damage is insanely high or there is some other bonus there. I believe elemental damage stacks, which makes quite a bit difference.

[Xessive]

The gun system is really complex and I have a hard time judging a lot of guns for the most part.  That said, I'd always lean towards elemental unless the base damage is insanely high or there is some other bonus there. I believe elemental damage stacks, which makes quite a bit difference.

Yep, back when I was playing I had a revolver with average base damage but it had "explosive" elemental bonus as well as a scatter effect (shotgun style) which made an insane difference! Just to give you an idea, I got that weapon when I was level 23, I was still using it as a primary weapon for my level 38 Hunter.

When i first started playing I used to just go with whatever had the highest damage and accuracy, it took me a while before I realized how much the elemental/effects really factor in.

[Cobra951]

I noticed the burning damage from this SMG is a gift that keeps on giving.  It sucks that I only have 2 weapon slots now.  I imagine the other 2 unlock eventually, or I get to buy them.  For now, the other slot goes to a repeater pistol with a scope.  Being able to size up enemies at a distance is a life saver.  I had my ass handed to me once by a spitter that looked no tougher than the other quadrupeds I was easily dispatching.  Then the game tells me about checking enemy levels.  Fallout 3 this is not.  Enemies don't scale with you; they are what they are, and I welcome that.  I never much liked the magically scaling bad guys in Beth games (though it was done much better in FO3 than in Oblivion).

I can see what idol means by the UI being a train wreck.  LOL!  Trying to assess weapons against each other while at the vending machine is a bloody chore. But I need to play much more before I really get a feel for everything.

[Cobra951]

I put in some solid time into this yesterday, into the wee hours of today.  It's very addictive, but damn if doesn't get hard as nails.  It's getting so that I need to be about 3 levels higher than what I'm fighting before I'm in any semblance of control.  And those fast fuckers with armored heads and shoulders (alpha skags?) are a bitch, even if I'm Lv 18 and they're 15.  And I'm tired of guys with missile launchers owning my ass.

I'm playing as Roland.  I gravitate toward soldier class the first time through in games with a choice.  But I'm not too happy with the turret special ability.  The problem is that it doesn't stop anything charging me.  At first, the fight often ended up behind the thing.  Now what I'm doing when I see that about to happen is to hop over it and then engage in a pincer attack.  That's real helpful with the frontal armor on these guys, but it prevents me from using the secondary benefits of the turret.

My biggest gripe is typical for this sort of game.  I have to spend *way* too much time managing inventory.  The limited carry capacity and lack of loot storage flatly pisses me off.  I keep finding weapons that are going to take days of grinding to be able to use, but it's either carry them, sell them, or (gasp!) drop them.  I was momentarily happy to see a buyback option at vendors, hoping it would work like Mass Effect's.  But no.  What you sell is only available for buyback for a short while.  Also, I'm still not comfortable with what's what, in terms of utility.  That, though, I see as a legitimate challenge.  I need to get a better grip on how the weapon stats come together into killing power.  All I know is that so far, it seems like I'm hitting the bad guys with tennis balls with a lot of what I pick up.

So it's certainly not a walk in the park.  It keeps beckoning me, so it must be doing things right.  Technically, it's mostly perfect, with the frame rate so far dipping way down only when those crab worms smother me with goo.  Usually it's rock steady, and there's never ever a streaming hitch, which is the bane of Mass Effect.  This engine is clearly meant for full-time fast action.  Well done.

Oh, and I hope whoever designed the vehicle driving controls dies horribly in a fire.

[idolminds]

Hopefully the upcoming balance patch addresses some of your issues. That was a problem I noticed while playing: if you're 2 levels below an enemy they can be nearly impossible to kill, but 2 levels above and you practically one shot them. The damage your gun does is affected by your level instead of being just a flat damage amount.

And yes, the UI is all sorts of trouble and very obviously not designed for the PC. Its impossible to compare weapons, your inventory is really small, etc. But don't worry too much about weapons you can't use yet. Sell them unless they seem really uber-good, because by the time you level up enough to use them you'll probably have found something even better.

[Cobra951]

No, I'm fine with level as a multiplier for damage and defense.  That's typical RPG stuff.  I just don't feel confident that I have things properly figured out because I'm having so much trouble at Level 17-18 dealing with hordes of fast armored animals at 2-4 levels below me.  I keep thinking I'm missing something.  You say you can practically one-shot guys 2 levels below you, but that's far from my experience.  I can only do that to those suicidal Level-3 guys who keep popping out in the road just outside of the first "town".

Also WTF is up with the constant respawning?  I'm fine with respawns that happen when you leave an area and later return, but this is ridiculous.

[idolminds]

Hmmm, not sure what could be the problem there. Maybe you need to pick up a stronger gun? I ended up playing 90% of the game in co-op and we did every side mission so we pretty quickly outleveled everything and stayed there.

Yeah, the respawns are a little too quick. If you're taking it slow and careful going in to a place then you're going to be fighting the whole way out as everything is respawning behind you. But I guess their thinking is "More enemies = more kills = more loot"

[Cobra951]

Well thanks for the feedback.  My most effective weapons right are a Lv-15 SMG and a full-auto combat rifle (machine gun).  Neither has elemental properties, unfortunately, but my burning SMG is just way too weak now, and even a shocking SMG I picked up recently doesn't come close to the one I'm using, which has triple the damage stat of the others, a 60-round clip and very fast firing rate.  Problem is it eats the 720 rounds I can stack up too quickly in this lost cave where I mined some crystals.  The machine gun serves well as a backup, but then the fuckers respawn.  Well, OK, fine; so if they're endlessly respawning, where's my equally respawning ammo?  No such luck.  The game drops ammo clip types completely at random, most of which I can't pick up because I'm not using them and they're already maxxed.  So I end up running for my life back to the vending machines, using shotguns (which so far suck) and pistols to help clear the way.  It's just too out of control right now.  I need to get a better handle on the game, is all.  Once I do, I'll enjoy it a lot more.

[Cobra951]

While I'm at it, the first 3 DLCs are on sale on XBL for half price ($5) until Monday.  I grabbed General Knoxx while the getting is good.  It seems roughly equivalent to Broken Steel in FO3.  Level cap goes up +11 and the game can be continued after the story arch is finished.  And there's new goodies to be had too, of course.

[MysterD]

Gearbox on waiting for Title Update 1.41 to be approved; that it should be coming soon; and what to expect in the patch.

[idolminds]

Stupid consoles. I with they would just release the PC update already instead of waiting. We know thats not the one holding back the release.

[MysterD]

Stupid consoles. I with they would just release the PC update already instead of waiting. We know thats not the one holding back the release.

Blame 2K.
They giving PC gamers the crap treatment for some time - especially after Bioshock 2 PC fiascoes.

[Cobra951]

I <3 my stupid console.  Wouldn't be playing this great game without it.  I think I have the hang of it now, except that vehicle controls still suck unnecessarily.  Everything on foot feels right, and I'm completely hooked.  Spending way too much time on it.  And now I'm jumping in again.

[idolminds]

1.41 is out now!

11/02/2010: Borderlands Update 1.41 is now available for PC!

    * Level cap increase of 8 levels for all players.
      - Original Borderlands players will now be able to achieve level 58.
      - Owners of The Secret Armory of General Knoxx can achieve a record setting increase to a maximum level of 69.
    * Enemies now scale to new level caps throughout the whole game as long as playthrough 2 has been completed.
    * Item drops (with the exception of COM Decks) will now scale to new enemy level caps.
    * DLC4 Achievement/Trophy glitches that have affected some users will now properly award players for obtaining these achievements.

Sadly, it looks like you won't see anything different unless you've already played through the game twice or own General Knoxx.

[Cobra951]

And apparently the 360 version is still held up.  It's certified and all, but hasn't filtered down the system.  I await.

I'm Lv 43 (soldier) now, pingponging between Knoxx and playthrough 2.  Game is way too addictive.  Guns are everything.

[W7RE]

I just loaded the game up on Xbox and it patched, so I'm assuming that's the level cap update. I'm only level 44 though, so the level cap and re balancing won't be noticeable for me yet.

[Cobra951]

I just read on the Gearbox forums that all the big fuel tanks are missing after the patch.  Those are often a leg up to higher places.  Apparently, the big landmines in Knoxx are missing as well.  Odd.  I'm definitely not allowing the patch unless this turns out to be false.  I play solo anyway.

[idolminds]

Wow, that sucks. Guess I'll wait for the fixed patch. Not like it matters since I'm only on playthrough 2 anyway.

[Ghandi]

Borderlands is 10 bucks today on Steam.

[MysterD]

Borderlands is 10 bucks today on Steam.

That's a hell of a deal.

[Ghandi]

This game is like crack...I need to stop playing. I installed today and played up to level 19.

So far I haven't had much difficulty. I picked the soldier class and went with the infantry tree - picked 5/5 increased bullet damage and 5/5 increased sentry damage, and 2/5 in the skill that reduces the cooldown on sentry when you shoot. I'm mowing everything down without a problem so far. Just killed the guy that gives you the first piece of the vault key and he didn't even touch me before I killed him. I assume the difficulty ramps up later on (or at least I hope so), so I'm still constantly looking to upgrade despite being fine already.

And the dialogue in this game is fantastic. Some really funny one-liners.

[Cobra951]

Welcome to the fray.  Been playing this heavily since I got it over a month ago.  Played with Roland through Level 55.  I'm glad you're finding him easy.  I didn't.  Are you playing on PC?  I'm wondering if the game is a lot easier on PC.  I see a complaints regularly about the game being too easy, while I find it hard as nails in a quite a few spots.

An easier character is Lilith.  Her phasewalk ability lets her escape just about any sticky situation, and regen her shield.  I completed the game with her, including Crawmerax in DLC 3 (Knoxx), who no one will call easy.  She's level 61.  (I'm dodging the 1.41 patch so far, which scales the game world everywhere to your Level after playthrough 2, and lets you level to 69.)  I tried Mordecai briefly (to Level 13) but I think his special ability sucks too much to compensate for his frailty.  I wasn't having much fun with him, so I abandoned him.  I'm now playing through with Brick, who is a lot of fun.  He can take massive damage, and deal it out with his fists, using the triggers during berzerk to swing left and right punches.  He's Level 35, and going strong.

Hope you like it as much as I do.  I'm glad someone other than just me is playing it in our little group here.

[MysterD]

Borderlands: GOTY Edition is on sale on Amazon (BL + all 4 DLC's).
PC version [retail box] = $32.99.
PS3 or X360 version = $39.99

Remember - Free saver shipping on orders over $25.

[Ghandi]

Welcome to the fray.  Been playing this heavily since I got it over a month ago.  Played with Roland through Level 55.  I'm glad you're finding him easy.  I didn't.  Are you playing on PC?  I'm wondering if the game is a lot easier on PC.  I see a complaints regularly about the game being too easy, while I find it hard as nails in a quite a few spots.

An easier character is Lilith.  Her phasewalk ability lets her escape just about any sticky situation, and regen her shield.  I completed the game with her, including Crawmerax in DLC 3 (Knoxx), who no one will call easy.  She's level 61.  (I'm dodging the 1.41 patch so far, which scales the game world everywhere to your Level after playthrough 2, and lets you level to 69.)  I tried Mordecai briefly (to Level 13) but I think his special ability sucks too much to compensate for his frailty.  I wasn't having much fun with him, so I abandoned him.  I'm now playing through with Brick, who is a lot of fun.  He can take massive damage, and deal it out with his fists, using the triggers during berzerk to swing left and right punches.  He's Level 35, and going strong.

Hope you like it as much as I do.  I'm glad someone other than just me is playing it in our little group here.

Yeah I'm on the PC. I'm guessing that you are 360? The PC might be easier because shooting enemies in the head grants a critical much of the time, and I have no problems aiming with the mouse. I get a critical on pretty much everyone. Add to that my weapons are pretty powerful and I have increased damage and most enemies go down in 3-4 shots.

The sentry turret is really key, and the reduced cooldown when I shoot means that I can get it out pretty often. It blocks enemies in tight spaces and provides a shield for me in open areas.

[Cobra951]

I found that buffing the soldier before buffing the turret worked better for me.  I use it strictly as a distraction, though with the right elemental artifact, it can be quite effective even without buffs.  I know the lack of mouselook is a handicap, and I do wonder if it makes all the difference.  There's is some pretty good aiming assist, though.  It gravitates the crosshair toward a nearby target, and you can nudge it to the head, or to lead a moving target.  I tried turning it off.  No way.  Gimme a mouse, then I'll do that.  I've gotten good at fine aiming adjustments with footwork, and not just in BL.  I get a lot of criticals myself.  But there's no replacement for a mouse in a game like this, dammit.  Sucks.

[Ghandi]

Weapon damage is pretty strange in this game. Elemental damage seems to be strong but there's no indication on the weapons of how much damage is delt...just a +1 fire elemental damage or whatever. And is the weapon's damage calculated for after +x% damage or before? I'm assuming that %damage increases in character skills don't modify all of the guns stats (adding a skill point to go from +4% damage to +8% damage won't bump up what the weapons show) but I will have to look to make sure. 

[Cobra951]

Each weapon comes with a tech pool from which it draws to proc.  The pool depletes with rapid use, and must refill over time.  Each weapon has a varying chance to proc.  You will see an indication of this sometimes such as "high elemental chance", "higher elemental chance" and "very high elemental chance".  Some legendary weapons always proc.  Keep an eye out for combustion hellfires and pestilent defilers, both orange in rarity.  Never sell those until after you find a better version.  The chance to proc at a higher level is smaller than at x1, but the legendaries I mentioned always proc at at least x1.

Anyway, weapons math is quite intricate.  For example, accuracy, a very important stat, is tricky.  100% accuracy = pinpoint, obviously.  Zero accuracy, though, is not so obvious.  It means a 90-degree firing cone.  Your projectiles can be anywhere within it (meaning they can fly off the barrel as much as 45 degrees from center).  The higher the accuracy from there, the smaller your firing cone.  Percentage improvements from proficiencies and class mods modify this cone, so it's possible to have, for example, over 100% accuracy improvement on SMGs and still have less than 100% total accuracy.

I recommend this wiki to get a good general idea of what's going on.  It's quite a lot to digest.

[Xessive]

I just picked up a retail copy of Borderlands GOTY and amazingly enough none of the DLC are on the F'ing disc. It's just regular Borderlands with a leaflet that ahs instructions on how to download the DLC from the Gearbox site.. That's nearly 4GB of downloads (if not more).. Lame. So lame.

[Cobra951]

Aw, man, I could have told you that.  Yeah, extremely lame.  This was a heated subject for a while at the Gearbox forums.  Also, beware of trying to mix retail and Steam versions of Borderlands stuff.  Apparently, that's a no go.

[idolminds]

Wow, good thing I didnt bother with the GOTY edition.

[Xessive]

Thanks, Cobra. I was curious about Steam integration since Gearbox seemed really keen on setting up Steam achievements and various other Steam-related stuff.

Honestly, it was an impulsive purchase. I saw it in the store for $40 ($10 less than Steam or any other digital distributor) so I went for it. I didn't check the forums or anything since I had already played the base game and loved it, so I wasn't too worried about quality but I was expecting a second disc with the DLC (which I'm just gonna make once I download them). I should take a look at the boards anyway.

Speaking of the tedious download, the Zombie Island DLC (1.13GB) has failed 3 times now. First two times the download cuts out halfway through, and the third time I used a download manager (The Free DLM) and the zip archive is "damaged." Moxxi's Underdome downloaded fine though. I really wish Gearbox used BitTorrent for this! It would ease up the load on their servers too!

[Cobra951]

At least you can create easily your own DLC disc (after long downloads) on the PC.  Console users have to jump through a lot more hoops to back up game content.

[Xessive]

Yeah, that's a convenience I can appreciate. On the other hand, the DRM can be a tiny bit of an issue on PC but I think the DLC only needs a one-time registration and it's set. The questionable part is with uninstalling/reinstalling and revoking the tokens.

Update:
It was a 5GB download!! Which also means that I'll need to find a dual-layer disc to burn it. Crap. I have some storage space on my external drive, it'll have to reside there indefinitely.