Topic: My New Car....Maybe

[gpw11]

So, as you may or may not be able to tell from the MAP sensor thread, my car is pretty unreliable at this point.  I've decided to cut my losses and after 5 years get rid of the '93 tercel I paid ~$2500 for. It has served it's time and I got my money out of it.

The shitty thing for me is that this is the absolute worst market to buy the kind of car I need right now.  Any decent used import 4 banger with low kms is getting sold at a premium because of gas prices.  Cars I could have bought for $4,000 a couple years ago now demand $5-6,000...which is retarded. 

On the other hand, if I wanted to buy a new or used domestic V6 or V8 truck I'd be in luck because people are basically giving those mother fuckers away.  That, however is not what I'm going to be getting myself into. 

So, what am I go to do?  Well, it's not entirely settled yet but either this:



or more likely this:



I'm usually strictly against buying anything new, and would be somewhat hesitant about either of the these as both companies (actually, it's really only one company) have somewhat shaky reputations.  However;

-The pricing on both of these is the same and the base model comes down to $9,995 after an '08 clearance/cross border shopping incentive rebate of roughly $4000.

-Both are rated pretty well within their class and research shows that the reliability reputation and build quality for both models has improved dramatically in recent years. 

-motherfucking econo boxes.

-Both come with 5 year 100,000 KM comprehensive and powertrain warranties, with only milestone maintenance having to be performed at the dealership (oil change somewhere else...just keep the receipt.  Doesn't seem like a big deal but car manufacturers used to fuck people over apparently).  Warranty service has been rated 'best in Canada' for like the last three years...by someone.

-I can pay cash and a student graduation rebate takes off another $500ish.

So, I'm pretty sure that's what I'm doing and it should get me through the current school phase without any worries...which is the main thing.  I don't have as much faith in one of these as I would in a Toyota or Honda, and they depreciate much faster but a.) If I was worried about depreciation I'd buy used and b.) Toyotas and Hondas are stupid expensive these days.

[Antares]

If you're going for an econobox, there isn't a much better way to go.  The only thing I'd worry about is depreciation and getting upside down on the loan, but if you're paying cash for it I suppose that really isn't an issue.  The only other thing you'd have to worry about is telling your parents that you're gay.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I would advise against buying a Kia, my parents and two of my friends have owned a Kia Rio and I have heard nothing but bad about them.  They are cheap for a reason.  The parts on them are ridiculously expensive and hardly anyone carries them except for the dealership so you're going to get stuck paying top dollar for almost any part.  I don't know if they've stepped up their game in the last few years or if the model you are looking at is somehow better though.  I don't know much about Hyundais but one of my friends in college loved his Elantra because of the gas mileage and reliability.

[Ghandi]

*cough*Honda*cough*

If you are worried that Honda's cost more, realize that they will last until 250,000+ miles. Plus they are very reliable and not too expensive to fix.

[gpw11]

I would advise against buying a Kia, my parents and two of my friends have owned a Kia Rio and I have heard nothing but bad about them.  They are cheap for a reason.  The parts on them are ridiculously expensive and hardly anyone carries them except for the dealership so you're going to get stuck paying top dollar for almost any part.  I don't know if they've stepped up their game in the last few years or if the model you are looking at is somehow better though.  I don't know much about Hyundais but one of my friends in college loved his Elantra because of the gas mileage and reliability.

Yeah, I've always avoided them before, but apparently they've done a full u-turn since the earlier models. Whether it means anything, Consumer Reports, Edmunds, KBB, Phil Edmundson, and all the rest of the reputable 'car experts' have taken them off the avoid list and borderline rave about them now because of the increase in build quality (this goes for both Hyundai and Kia), warranty, and overall value.   If there wasn't the warranty coverage getting me through a point where I may have very limited income I wouldn't even consider it just because, but I don't think I'll even have it for five years.

With a Yaris and Fit costing over 33% more with marginal benefits (the lower depreciation of the cars is kind of offset by the initial cost) it's kind of the only reasonable new option for me right now unless I want to start pulling money out of investments...which I don't want to do.

As for your Honda suggestion Ghandi, it's not so much the increased cost that bothers me, it's the lack of a good option.  The Fit costs $5000 more for the basic model and that thing is even more gay.  I had a rental and couldn't see me buying it.  A Civic is out of the question because those motherfuckers aren't economy cars anymore.  My parents just bought an 09, and although they're pretty sweet, they are now bigger, less fuel efficient, and not cheap at all.  I need to stress here that I'm not willing to finance anything at all.  It's out of the question for me.

Certified used for both Honda and Toyota are a joke these days.  Neither maker will certify anything more than 5 years old and what they do certify is sold at almost new prices.  Buying used the old way is also kind of a joke right now.  Like I said, gas here is hovering around $1.50 a litre, and people are catching on that it's only going up.  Beyond that a new carbon gas tax just went in that increases every year.  Everyone and their mother is selling their SUVs and Trucks and buying 4 banger imports sedans, coupes, and hatchbacks.  It's an inflated market where I'm either going back 10 years and paying $4000 on a car I could have bought last year for $2000-3000 or I'm buying something 5-8 years old for $8,000, in which case I might as well drop the extra $2000 and get coverage for as long as I own the car.

I also have no problem driving a 10 year old car and would actually prefer it but every single person I know that's selling their ten year old four banger import is selling it for the same reason I am: they're starting to get nickeled and dimed to death.    Sure, some of them are probably gold, like my car was when I bought it, but I can't take the risk that I buy a mother fucker and half way though a semester the transmission goes and the timing belt snaps.  That's the thing about Toyotas and Hondas; they rack up the miles on the engines, but after a certain point you're pouring money in or at least putting more in than I really want to.  I'm not looking for the long term value associated with a civic with 100,000 k on it right now, I'm just looking for the piece of mind associated with lemon laws and 5 year/100,000 k comprehensive/power train warranties.

That said, my parents may very well already think I'm gay considering I haven't introduced them to a girl since high school.  I don't think this is going to tip the scales.

[iPPi]

Just get a Smart Car.

[Cobra951]

Why?  You can get a time-proven Honda easier and cheaper, and come within 3 mpg.

[gpw11]

Just get a Smart Car.

Yeah, to be perfectly honest I think they're pretty much over-rated.

[ren]

It makes sense, do it.

[ren]

That said, you can still buy mid-90s Toyotas here for under 5 grand easily. Are the prices in BC usually higher than Toronto? I'm thinking it's just a knee-jerk reaction because of the carbon tax and prices might go back down in a few months.

Isn't the carbon tax only an extra 2 cents a litre or something really trivial like that? I don't see why everybody freaked otu so much.

[gpw11]

That said, you can still buy mid-90s Toyotas here for under 5 grand easily. Are the prices in BC usually higher than Toronto? I'm thinking it's just a knee-jerk reaction because of the carbon tax and prices might go back down in a few months.

Isn't the carbon tax only an extra 2 cents a litre or something really trivial like that? I don't see why everybody freaked otu so much.

Yeah, the prices in Vancouver tend to be the highest in the country.  The main reason is because the temperate climate is a lot easier on cars (plus, they almost never touch salt) so they tend to last longer, which kind of shifts the whole pricing scale for the market - even for shitty cars.   I was kind of exagerating, and I could still get a mid 90's Toyota for under 5 grand, but not one that I'd want.  I'm not buying used with over 200,000 KM on it. And I'm not paying a premium for some shit box I could have bought for a thousand less a year ago.  Piece of mind has a cost.

As for the carbon tax, I think it might even be less - like 1.5 cents. Beyond that it scales up every year.  I personally don't think it's a big deal at all and borderline welcome it - I'd rather pay a tax on gas then have that 1.5 extra cents going to an oil company.  People made a huge deal about it because they make a huge deal about anything they don't fully understand. It has high media coverage, costs people a bit of money and they panic. You know how many people I've heard bitch about Exxon's record breaking second quarter profits (oh, and the record they broke was their own)? None. 

I have, however, started to hear people talk about peak oil again...which is kind of frightening because people who talk about it rarely actually know what it means.

[poomcgoo]

Of the two you posted, absolutely go with Hyundai over Kia.  Hyundais have gotten exponentially better in nearly every way recently, and they are just flat-out a better car than kia.

I just bought one of these



'05 Nissan Maxima

Loaded, heated leather, 265 hp, standard transmission, 6-cd 10 speaker Bose.  Trust me, go with a used car and get something a little better.  I have never loved anything in life more than I love this car.  I had no idea it was even possible to enjoy a vehicle this much, and I have never been more satisfied with a purchase before.  I paid a little over $14,000 with 49k miles.  The thing is pristine, and although the miles were a little higher than I wanted to go, the price was right and the Nissan engines are bulletproof -- this thing will go to 200,000 easily.

I really, really recommend checking out the Nissan Altima.  I was looking at a few used ones from 2006-2007 that were going for $10-12,000 with less than 30,000 miles on them.  The 4-cylinder 2.5 S/SL is a champ on gas and still has some balls (esp. in the stick).  The 6-cyl 3.5 SE/SE-R is a fuckin powerhouse.  265 hp in the SE, 275 in the SE-R - it's got the same engine as the Maxima on a much lighter frame.  That thing fuckin hauls, and its not even that bad on gas.  My Maxima right now has a realtime MPG readout, and since I got it a month ago I've been getting an avg. city+highway of 25.1 MPG (including various idle times during which I'm getting 0 mpg) -- it's actually quite good.

Lets not forget that these are actually hot cars.  You will look good driving this, plain and simple.  Altimas look damn nice, and the new 2-door coupe looks ridiculously good -- almost a mix of the Nissan 350Z and the Infiniti G35.  Even the stock sound system bangs louder than most premium sound systems in other manufacturers cars (Ford, Honda easily).  Keyless entry with Push-button ignition standard like an Aston Martin?  So studly.  The automatics have the tiptronics, but be a man and get a stick and laugh at the idea of a Kia.

[scottws]

I like the look of new Altima a lot better than the newer Maxima.  A lot better... I can't stand the look of the Maxima (no offense).

I never really understood how Nissan was really successful marketing both of these cars at the same time because aren't they similarly sized with similar engines and similar interiors?  I realize the Maxima is supposed to be more upscale, but they just seem like the same car with different bodies.  A friend of mine once told me the Altima was actually a little roomier and quicker, but that was several years ago so maybe things have changed.

[poomcgoo]

Yeah, over the past 5 years they have grown to become almost the same car.  Before this last generation, the two were way different -- the Altima sucked and was about the size of a Ford Tempo and the Maxima was nice.  Now, the tnterior room on both is the same, and with the 3.5 V6 Altima, the engine is the same too.  I test drove an Altima SE-R that was definitely quicker than my Maxima, for example.  The differences are slight in the Maxima -- it's a little heavier, it has more luxury options, and there are little fine tunes in suspension, transmission, etc... that set it just above the Altima.

I was looking for an Altima originally because I liked how they look better too, that, and like you said it's almost the same car.  Trust me, I thought the Maximas looked stupid and it was pointless to spend more on the same car, but I found that Maxima for almost exactly the same price as the Altimas I was looking at.  I had probably test driven 15 Altimas at that point and one older generation Maxima (2000-2003)  I took the '05 I have now for a test drive and I absolutely couldn't say no.  The minute differences in the car are more than the sum of their parts.  On paper, it looks like they are the same car and the little extra you get in the Maxima are things you'd never notice, but riding in the Maxima just has a different feel to it.  It's hard to put your finger on it, but it's just subtly nicer in almost every way.  After a good 2 weeks of having it I'd still notice little things here and there that would just make me think "Oh damn, that's awesome,"  you'd really have to drive both to know what I mean, I guess.

As far as the look, I love it.  I don't know what happened, but I got my mind on the car when I saw it and drove it and sitting next to all the Altimas in the lot it stood the fuck out.  Pictures do this car zero justice, because ever since I got the up close look on it I loved it.  Check out the new 2009 Maxima -- it's completely redesigned and looks absolutely sick.  Not to mention the horses are upped to 295.  Too bad they don't make em in stick anymore.

[scottws]

Pictures do this car zero justice, because ever since I got the up close look on it I loved it.  Check out the new 2009 Maxima -- it's completely redesigned and looks absolutely sick.

Jennie's mom has a silver 2007 Maxima.  I know what they look like outside of pictures. 

If I got a Japanese car, I would get a Subaru Legacy.  Actually I really want a Legacy or a Mini Cooper, but my family owns a Ford dealership.  It'd be like in Robin Hood: Men In Tights when Robin smacks the guy across the face with a steel gauntlet.

So I'll probably wind up with Fusion.  Something I don't get about American cars is why they consider manual transmissions low end  If you upgrade the engine the only option is a slushbox.  It's like that on the Fusion.  I'd have to get a 4-cyl to get a stick.  I don't know, maybe it's only Ford that does that.

[gpw11]

I think it's most non-enthusiast American cars.  I don't really get it either, but then again if this is for day to day driving you don't really want anything more than a four banger in a non-truck anyways as far as I'm concerned.  I also used to own a Subaru Legacy (or my parents did when I was in high school and right after).  Awesome cars, but expensive as hell for parts and such (or at least that generation was).  This was in a time where my parents owned a Saab, a Legacy, and a Corolla.  The 'Rolla is the only ride they still have (well, out of those - they also have an 09 Civic) and although it's like 12 years old and looks like shit that thing is never going to die after a lifetime of an oil change once a year and a tuneup every 2 years.  That's when my dad said 'fuck it' - cheap to maintain cars all the way and buy a boat.

Anyways, a bit too late - I bought the Rio.  I was also considering a 2004 Civic coupe, the Accent, and a Yaris but:

-I didn't trust that Civic at all.  It was over priced a bit and it already felt like the transmission had something off in it.

-I can't drive a Yaris unless I'm on dirt roads in a South American country (if you have a chance to do this I highly recommend it.  The sedans are almost like little rally cars)

-The current Accents and the 3rd gen Rios are exactly the same car with a different body style.  Same engine, same transmission, same electronics, and same platform all the way (They're the same company now).  Everything else is cosmetic or options. Reliability ratings on the platform are unusually high for both companies (especially KIA).  All that said, the Hyundai salesman made the mistake of playing the "I can't really move on anything - either you buy this or someone else will and they are going FAST at this price!"  whereas the KIA salesman was much more reasonable with  "There's already a cash rebate on the price, so I can't move on that although I can move on the freight, we can dismiss some of those hidden fees, I can fudge the paperwork and offer you a grad rebate on top of the cash purchase rebate, I can offer you more than the KBB value for your car, and I can even throw in a years worth of service which you can cash in on any four milestones you hit." (well, obviously it took a bit of work on my part).

So, out the door it came to just about $9000 after taxes and shit,not including the the $750 I can get added to my tax return as an eco rebate (I think).  I checked out the blue, black, and gold book values for estimated depreciation and I've pretty much headed off the first three years on the older, shittier generations.  Basically this car is free should I decide to sell it when I'm out of school.

[gpw11]

Oh, hey....it's me again. So, I rolled the dice on that and definitely won out. Motherfucker has about 90,000KM of hard driving on it and I haven't put in a dime I didn't need to. Didn't follow maintenance at all, have basically been throwing oil and gas in for 4.5 years, flipped some filters here and there and done some oil changes. Runs like a top.  A shitty little top, but still a top and I'm actually quite surprised.  I mean, I'm going to have to pay for a new timing belt real soon, because I have a hunch it's an interference engine, but that's just part of owning any car (why do we still have to do that shit? computers and shit).

That said, looking back on this thread, I'm glad I went the way I did, although I certainly appreciated the input. The Accent may have been a financially better decision, due to it's ability to fight off depreciation a bit, but I like sedan's with rear seat truck access rather than hatchbacks, so no regrets there. Plus, you don't go dropping roughly 10 grand cash on a car you give a fuck about - I park this motherfucker in the worst parts of town overnight and don't stress for a second. I park in ridiculously small spaces other people pass up because - worst case scenario - that concrete pillar is 20 minutes of work on a sunny day with a can of touch up paint, some rust primer (you never do that shit right away), some clear coat, and a couple of beers.  I will roll up and hedge park all up on some blackberry bushes -who cares when you have a touch up pen?  We all like nice things, but I also realize that I personally value not giving a fuck.

Sure, I could have done that with a used car for four grand less, but there's a risk there and I'm glad I had the piece of mind of warranty coverage when dealing with a couple years of working full time and going to school full time in a program with mandatory attendance (why the fuck do secondary technical degrees and masters degrees often have that?  It's backwards as fuck. Like, I'm not an undergrad, I fully understand what this costs me, if I miss a class it's usually not because I want to).

So, all in all, Kia gets my personal stamp of approval. I mean, not if you're looking for performance or luxury, but if you need to get somewhere it's all good...so apparently they did turn it around in the mid-2000's. Actually it looks like KIA/Hyundai (Same company now) kind of took over the marketspace that Toyota and Honda vacated in the early 2000's - just cheap ass cars that run (okay).  Oh, and note:  Girl's don't give a fuck as long as you call it a KIAdillac.  Even more impressed then they were with the Tercedes.


PS.  Koreans suck at making glass. That or I suck at getting chips repaired before they turn into full windshield cracks. I hear this is pretty common but I have a full crack and a chip and I've never had either with any other car I've owned so I find it suspicious.

[ren]

My 94 corolla is still going strong. I figure I can get a few more years out of it before winter takes its toll and the body rusts through. At that point I'm doing exactly what you did and buying basically the cheapest new econobox I can find.

[scottws]

I ended up with a new (at the time) 2010 Fusion 4-cyl with a stick after my 2002 Escort ZX2 had some solenoid problem in the engine that would have been ridiculously expensive to fix.  I ended up getting the base model with the premium/extended warranty rather than getting the much more common SE model that comes with the sunroof and Microsoft Sync.  I only had a BlackBerry at the time and didn't forsee really using Sync for anything, but now I wish I had it.

I've had a few problems with it.  The first is about two years ago the vent fan started making this really annyoning clicking/squeaking noise.  The problem is that it isn't a regular occurrence and I can't reproduce it.  It either happens or it doesn't; it seems totally random.  I tried scheduling appointments but they always said they couldn't find anything wrong and didn't hear it. One time it was happening and I took it straight from work to the dealership down here in Florida.  They trotted out three people who all said they didn't hear anything.  I guess it's a high pitched sound because when I've got passengers and I hear it, I ask them if they hear it and only about half say they can.  It's not even a quiet sound.  It's very noticeable to me.  So it is still as is because they want me to pay hundreds of dollars to replace it because they say Ford won't honor the warranty because the part won't test bad.

I had to replace the windshield because a rock struck it under the wiper.  I thought the rock struck above the wiper and didn't see the mark, so I left it and it cracked a few weeks later.

The battery went bad a couple months ago and I had to replace that, but I guess that isn't totally unexpected.  What sucked is I had no warning.  Just one day it tried to start and didn't.  I don't have to hold the key in the ignition position for it to start.  I just have to momentarily put it in that position until I hear the starter crank the engine, then I can let it go back to the on position and it will run the starter for a couple seconds on its own until the engine starts.  This time it didn't start and stalled out and subsequent attempts revealed the battery didn't have enough juice to turn the engine so the starter just clicked.  When I took it in the battery tested bad.

Another problem I have now is the CEL came on.  I took it in and they said it was the gas filler valve.  Basically this is like a bad gas cap issue, but my car doesn't have a gas cap.  Unfortunately, they didn't have the part in stock and claimed it was on backorder from Ford with no ETA.  Then the next day they called me and said they found one, but I couldn't get the time off work I needed so they sold it to another garage and now I am waiting for the backordered part.

I'm also having trouble with a rough idle when the A/C is on.  I've read that when you disconnect or replace the battery that you might have to retrain the engine computer for idle.  I don't know if the dealership did that or not.  That procedure is supposedly in the owner's manual but I haven't looked.  It could also be due to the filler valve issue I guess, and until I get that fixed I don't want to mess with trying to train the car for idle only for it to get out-of-whack again when it gets fixed.

I have about 40,000 miles (~64,000 km) on it.

[Cobra951]

. . .

The battery went bad a couple months ago and I had to replace that, but I guess that isn't totally unexpected.  What sucked is I had no warning.  Just one day it tried to start and didn't.

  . . .

I've had the same experience, with a Sable (89 model, I think).  Drove somewhere; all was well; returned to it; battery was absolutely dead, and would not take a charge.  I've been luckier with the Mustang, where the battery has given me plenty of warnings about a failing condition.  Last time I replaced it about a year ago, after needing to jump it, because I ignored the warnings too long.  Haha!

My car has been ridiculously good.  It's going on 18 years old.  I've had it for 17.  Major repairs are replacing the radiator, the AC compressor, and a rear anti-sway bar (this last one under extended warranty).  That's it.  Everything else has been normal maintenance or something minor, like a throttle-bypass piece, or an epoxy-injection fix to my one and only destructive encounter with a pebble to the windshield.  I've been rear-ended twice, and had a rear quarter panel grazed by an errant semi.  All fixed by insurance.  My only current problem is a shattered right-side door mirror (my fault entirely).  I've been dragging my feet on fixing that.  Idle is rougher since the last tune up and compressor replacement, but still nothing I want to spend time going to the shop about.