Topic: Im not getting it

[PyroMenace]

Its this whole thing of community thats becoming bigger with things like Home on the PS3 and the new avatar system on the 360. And with games like Littlebig Planet and Spore where your able to share content, everybody is talking about this stuff like its something we havent seen before or even like rediscovering the internet. Im looking at these games and all I think is so what. I was making maps for the first Red Alert ages ago, what its so damn special about making a mario level on Littlebig Planet? I'm aware of Littlebig Planet and for the most part what its generally about. However Im getting more surprised at the hype surrounding it, its a cool concept but I honestly don't think its something thats gonna catch on like wild fire like some of the podcasts I listen to are saying. I mean is everybody wanting to play platformers that bad? Its a genre thats had its time and its full of wonderful nostalgia but there's still plenty of great handheld 2D platformers to enjoy. Spore feels a collage of various sims and strategy games dumbed down. The creature creator doesnt even appeal to me. Im just not understanding it.

[Quemaqua]

I know what you mean.  I kind of feel the same way about the community stuff.  Most of that is throwaway crap to me that I never use or even care about.  It's definitely different with Spore since all of it just sort of populates your game in the background where you don't even notice it happening, and that's cool, but ultimately... so what?  Okay, I can download my friend's creatures and stuff, which is cool, but I don't give a shit about being connected to a database of billions.  I highly doubt I'll play the game for long enough to actually see more than a few of those, so they might as well have shipped with the game for all that it matters to me.

That said, I'm looking forward to Little Big Planet.  It just looks fun.  I think it's got a little more going for it than you give it credit for.  But yeah, I hear you.  The "community" concept seems a little oversold lately.

[idolminds]

The ultimate downfall of LBP will be level design. Platformers live or die by their level design. So it will be cool to screw around with your own levels or your buddies levels, but you're not going to want to play with random person Xs random shitty level.

There will be some people that actually put time and thought into the levels, and those will be worth playing. Too bad Sony put in a system to sell levels. So prepare to pay for the good ones.

[PyroMenace]

Yea it will be really popular at first, but I think like alot of the communities that are started with somewhat big profile games like this, it will probably die a month or two after its release. Take a look at Boom Blox, no one talks about that game anymore.

[Cobra951]

Which is a shame, given that it's one of a handful of Wii titles that seems worthwhile.

[Quemaqua]

I don't think that was Boom Blox's problem.  That one just didn't know what its audience was, and nobody else could figure it out either.  Interesting game, but let's face it, it makes no fucking sense at all, and I think it simply didn't know where to go, and nobody knew where to send it.

[MysterD]

Its this whole thing of community thats becoming bigger with things like Home on the PS3 and the new avatar system on the 360. And with games like Littlebig Planet and Spore where your able to share content, everybody is talking about this stuff like its something we havent seen before or even like rediscovering the internet. Im looking at these games and all I think is so what. I was making maps for the first Red Alert ages ago, what its so damn special about making a mario level on Littlebig Planet?

I think what's so special about it is FINALLY consolers are finally getting to do things that the PC been doing since at least the mid-90's, when the start of the mod-scene began to take off over the Net -- thanks to really it began to take off with Doom and since then has been a never-ending ridiculous amounts of PC games that have SDK's and mod-tools.

Yeah, we're used to it on the PC -- so, it's not really a big deal, these days. I mean, if you try lots of mods, you'll see that -- yeah, most of them are not special, but there are a few that always stand-out.

I'm aware of Littlebig Planet and for the most part what its generally about. However Im getting more surprised at the hype surrounding it, its a cool concept but I honestly don't think its something thats gonna catch on like wild fire like some of the podcasts I listen to are saying. I mean is everybody wanting to play platformers that bad? Its a genre thats had its time and its full of wonderful nostalgia but there's still plenty of great handheld 2D platformers to enjoy.

People always wanted to make their own Mario mods/levels -- that's the thing, I guess.

Spore feels a collage of various sims and strategy games dumbed down. The creature creator doesnt even appeal to me. Im just not understanding it.

People just like to create their own stuff and what they can come up with. It's that simple, I think.

[K-man]

I think D has a valid point there.  Even though PC gamers have been doing this for years, only recently has user-created content become viable on consoles.  Mostly due to the inherent limitations of said consoles.  Now that we've gotten to an age where storage is no longer done on memory cards and connectivity isn't an issue, user-created content is the now the new buzz word in the land of consoles.

However, I think the one thing that Sony is trying to accomplish here that in my opinion hasn't really been done in the PC world is a huge bustling community surrounding one game.  You've got your niche communities surrounding PC games like Morrowind, oblivion, sims, sim city, civ, etc.  but I think LittleBigPlanet is meant to take a more holistic approach to these sorts of things.

[Quemaqua]

Interesting points all around.

[sirean_syan]

The other thing is this should be really easy to make stuff with LBP and Spore. I think you'd have a tough time arguing that creating custom content on the PC side of things has ever been easy to get into. I'm know there are a few exceptions, but for the most part people can't just walk into these programs and just start dropping content, or at least content that could compete with the stuff made by the developers. That has really put a damper on the creation side of the equation in my mind. I've heard both Que and Idol say they wanted to make something and have fun ideas, but don't have the ability to put it into action. Granted, the creation tool in games like LBP or Spore won't be powerful enough to create whatever you want, but they should be easy enough to make something sorta like what you want.

[idolminds]

True. Usability of the tools is a major factor. Lower the barrier of entry to creation. Theres a free FPS engine out there called Sauerbraten. Everything is built with various cubes of different sizes, and its all in-game. So you can run around a map, decide you want a hall here, jump into edit mode and put it in. It even works over multiplayer so you can design with a group if you want (or totally fuck with the people playing...go for the quad and INSTAWALL!).

[Quemaqua]

That's a good point too.  There's a high barrier to entry on the PC end of content creation when it comes to a lot of stuff.  We mostly rely on others with the skills to do it.  With some of these newer games, there's a chance we can make something pretty darn cool and worth checking out.  The downside, and this is what I ultimately fear most, is that it'll just turn into a glut of below-average content since basically anyone can make it, and finding anything actually worth playing will be next to impossible.

EDIT - Idol beat me to the punch.  I won't bother rewriting.

[PyroMenace]

Yea but as Idol pointed that one program out, there is plenty of stuff out there on PC to create lots of stuff easily. The difference is that no one would know about any of it because theres no money in it and its not advertised with a big EA logo stamped on it.

Also the community thing has really came from this casual/hardcore gaming thing everyone seems to be pointing out now. Im glad Nintendo has done something different and they are making lots of money from it but it has also created something very fucking annoying. Now its slowly becoming a requirement for publishers and dev teams to announce what audience their game is for. And apparently games that involve killing and ones that dont is the line that distinguishes hardcore from casual. Its really retarded and only there to make the trendy people feel more comfortable about play video games. Nothing has changed for me, Im going to play stuff that looks interesting to me, not if its casual or hardcore.

[MysterD]

Also the community thing has really came from this casual/hardcore gaming thing everyone seems to be pointing out now. Im glad Nintendo has done something different and they are making lots of money from it but it has also created something very fucking annoying. Now its slowly becoming a requirement for publishers and dev teams to announce what audience their game is for. And apparently games that involve killing and ones that dont is the line that distinguishes hardcore from casual. Its really retarded and only there to make the trendy people feel more comfortable about play video games. Nothing has changed for me, Im going to play stuff that looks interesting to me, not if its casual or hardcore.

I wouldn't say games with killing and without killing differentiate what kind of gamer you are -- hardcore or not. Might differentiate if you're into trendy or not-so-trendy, if anything!

Hell, if anything, I'd say the gamers that are really hardcore are holding onto the pure adventure genre on the PC, since that genre seems to be...well, on life support, since there's seems to be a huge lack of decent ones, these days and age -- yet, adventure gamers still go out and buy them regardless (of how good or bad they are).

Hell, what was the last most recent good ones I actually played -- Culpa Innata? Yeah, how many casual gamers actually heard of that one? Hehe. I mean, hell -- there was a time when this genre ruled PC gaming, back in the 90's.

EDIT:
Oh, probably the last very good adventure I played wasn't Culpa, but actually Sam and Max: Season One.

[Quemaqua]

Right, and I think as time goes on, there will be less and less distinction.  It's pretty prevalent right now, but in a few years' time I think there will be much less focus on it.  Like anything, it's just a trend.  It'll pass, especially as gaming gets more and more mainstream, and as people who now call themselves "casual" get more interested and start playing more (and as more young people grow up with games, who will likely be more like us, not caring about the labels as long as something is fun to play).

[MysterD]

Right, and I think as time goes on, there will be less and less distinction.  It's pretty prevalent right now, but in a few years' time I think there will be much less focus on it.  Like anything, it's just a trend.  It'll pass, especially as gaming gets more and more mainstream, and as people who now call themselves "casual" get more interested and start playing more (and as more young people grow up with games, who will likely be more like us, not caring about the labels as long as something is fun to play).

Some games are very hard to classify by a genre. We got a lot of hybrids happening, these days.

BG&E, which I'm playing right now, is a great example. This game has so many different elements in it -- stealth elements, action elements, vehicle elements, and pure adventure elements (puzzle-solving). I don't know what to classify it. Action-Adventure, maybe?

Bioshock is a shooter at heart, but still has some RPG elements.
Savage series is a RPG/RTS combo.
Deus Ex series is a cross of FPS and RPG.
GTA: San Andreas is a cross of action, adventure, vehicle driving, AND even has some RPG elements.

You know, with all this genre-crossing, I wouldn't be surprised if in due time, we start classifying things like we do for movies -- simply by Sci-Fi, Crime, Horror, Thriller, Action, etc.