Topic: So, who is getting "Spore"

[Cobra951]

I am just dumbfounded by how publishers get to pick which reviewer reviews their game. This game was reviewed by Kristen Salvator of PC GAMER and given a 92%. Her review read like a love letter to Will Wright -- I am not kidding.

Dan Stapleton, theie strategy resident was allowed to weigh in at the end of the review, and tore the game apart.

I guess it would have been a disaster for them had they allowed him to give it a negative review.

Yeah, I do wonder how much strongarming goes on behind the scenes.  The Gamespot fiasco may be just one exposure of a much wider problem with professional reviewing.  If the critic and user scores are far apart at places like Metacritic, you can at least suspect that something funny is going on.

Edit:  Wow!  85% vs 45%.  Yep.  There's something decomposing in a Nordic country.

[Xessive]

Woah, that is an enormous gap! Red flag!

[Dragonlor]

People are giving it a low review because of the DRM and securom.  Other wise the game itself is actually quite fun in my opinion.  I suggest "getting a hold" of the game and trying it yourself.  I really try not to look at reviews for a game I at least try it out myself first.  becasue what the masses dislike I still might like.

[Quemaqua]

There's something decomposing in a Nordic country.

Haha... I have to wonder how many people actually got that.

[Cobra951]

People are giving it a low review because of the DRM and securom.

That's true.  I forgot for a minute that it's the target of angry mobs because of the unacceptable copy protection.  So while I sympathize with them, I have to agree that they invalidate the popular ratings of the game itself (if not the overall EA-distributed package).

Does anyone even use that expression anymore?  I'm a bit surprised anyone got it.   

[Quemaqua]

There was an interesting conversation on the PC Gamer podcast about that.  You can really view it either way.  Technically, people that give it a rating like that aren't rating the actual game itself, which seems counterproductive and misleading about the game's content... but at the same time, if you're reviewing the actual product itself, it's absolutely valid to give it an abysmal rating if you think the copy protection is criminal.  Because that's as much a part of the product as the game itself, and an important one which affects the rest of the experience.

[scottws]

Hm, that's a very interesting perspective, Que.  Do we rate the game on its merits alone, or do we rate the product as a whole?  It's a fine line and I'd say that mostly it's just the game that gets rated because usually you don't see people rating games based on their lack of a useful manual.

But I think it's also very fair to try to wake up the general public to what's happening.

[Pugnate]

Yeah, I do wonder how much strongarming goes on behind the scenes.  The Gamespot fiasco may be just one exposure of a much wider problem with professional reviewing.  If the critic and user scores are far apart at places like Metacritic, you can at least suspect that something funny is going on.

Edit:  Wow!  85% vs 45%.  Yep.  There's something decomposing in a Nordic country.

That seemed alarming until I realized it was because of the DRM thing, similar to what happened on Amazon.

Haha... I have to wonder how many people actually got that.

GOOOOOGLE... IT DOES NOTHING!

[gpw11]

I'm kind of split on the issue, and it's something I've kind of thought about for a while regarding system requirements.  On one hand, I think it's reasonable to dock points for a game that doesn't run well for no real reason (I'm not really talking about bugs, just unrealistic min. requirements). Yet, on the other, you're kind of rating the game itself, and the requirements are kind of irrelevant variable as long as something out there can run it.  The DRM issue is a bit more interesting.

I haven't had a problem with the DRM in Spore so far, and I don't know much about it.  I'm glad people are pissed and doing something, because that's how things change, but I do kind of think they're going about it the wrong way because of the issues outlined previously in this thread.


Either way, I've kind of come to realize the game is one giant Tamagochi, and I'm having fun with it (a little bit into the tribal stage).  I don't have a problem with the RTS expert not reviewing it, because I didn't buy it to fulfill an RTS fix.  I think it's kind of similar to car reviews; enthusiast reviewers generally view cars like the Fit and Yaris as jokes, citing poor acceleration, cheap interiors, and lack of features.  At the same time, consumer reviewers and broad spectrum reviewers praise the cars for reliability, lack of depreciation, and fuel economy.  

Gamers and game reviewers are stupidly cynical  about their hobby a lot of the time, and you don't get the RTS reviewer on this game because that guy is going to compare this to Company of Heroes, which it doesn't hold a candle to from a strategy perspective. At the end of the day though, that's not what the game sets out to do and everyone should know that going in.  

[Pugnate]

I think it's kind of similar to car reviews; enthusiast reviewers generally view cars like the Fit and Yaris as jokes, citing poor acceleration, cheap interiors, and lack of features.  At the same time, consumer reviewers and broad spectrum reviewers praise the cars for reliability, lack of depreciation, and fuel economy. 

All good points GPW.

Yeah, I do wonder how much strongarming goes on behind the scenes.  The Gamespot fiasco may be just one exposure of a much wider problem with professional reviewing.  If the critic and user scores are far apart at places like Metacritic, you can at least suspect that something funny is going on.

Edit:  Wow!  85% vs 45%.  Yep.  There's something decomposing in a Nordic country.

I think it is a fact that publishers can normally pick which person from a reviewing staff gets their game, especially if it is an exclusive look. From PCG, it was Greg Vederman given the Hellgate reivew, and even though the game was poor, he gave it an 89%, well above the meta average (which I think was 70%). Thing is, he was a hack and slash enthusiast, and had given similar scores to games like Titan Quest, Sacred etc. So while there was a lot of finger waving going on, I can't say he was being disingenuous.

Guys from IGN, 1Up and Shacknews have stated on their respective podcasts that publishers being allowed to pick their reviewers in exchange for exclusive reviews, is common practice.

The only guys who never got into that crap were GFW/CGW... and now they don't exist.

[iPPi]

Like you gpw, I have had no issues with the DRM.  While yes, reading about it makes me angry, I have played Spore all the way to the space phase and have encountered no issues at all.  The DRM is completely transparent to the user and really doesn't seem to hinder the experience of an average user. 

[MysterD]

Like you gpw, I have had no issues with the DRM.  While yes, reading about it makes me angry, I have played Spore all the way to the space phase and have encountered no issues at all.  The DRM is completely transparent to the user and really doesn't seem to hinder the experience of an average user. 

It won't be transparent to someone who places the game on 5 different PC's at once.

I know, not many plan to do that currently, but I'm sure some 10 years or more down the line, if that DRM thing ain't patched out of the game, everyone will have to find a crack for the game or buy a new copy of Spore (which probably will be relatively cheap. by then -- but still, you will be double-dipped on).

I mean, sure, it's EA -- and likely, in 10-20 years, the company probably will still be here. But, look at Black Isle, Troika, Ion Storm, and even Iron Lore. These companies went under -- and if their games were protected by such measures, we'd be current pretty much screwed if there was no patch for the Net-style DRM.

I'm sure it's nice to not have the disc in the drive to play w/ Securom-based games from EA -- but, Impulse-sold games and GOG-sold games beat that by having no DRM-period.

[MysterD]

Molyneux takes on Spore's DRM.
He understands why EA uses DRM, but he really hates DRM.

Molyneux was speaking on the subject of restrictions put in place in recent high profile PC games, like Spore, that limit the number of PCs the title can be authorised on. Currently EA has set that limit to three, although it has announced it intends to increase that amount in the future.

Molyneux, mastermind of upcoming Xbox 360 exclusive RPG Fable II, said that he understood EA's position, but personally "hates" any form of copy protection.

"I would say while me as a player hates any restrictions, I can understand that publishers need to do something to give them the confidence to make games for the PC, to spend the huge amounts of money necessary to spend on development and to get their return," he said. "Anything that may give them more confidence on the PC means that ultimately we as gamers will come out better off because they will invest more in the game.

"I don't think three (Spore PC authorisations per game) sounds that bad. I'd prefer it not to be there but if it is going to be there then I think three is OK, but I can understand people being very upset. Personally I hate any copy protection. I hate typing in that number. I loathe it as a gamer. It just makes me feel insulted. And I always lose the blasted manual anyway. So if we can get away from that password protected side which is a waste of time then that would be great."

You can check out the first part of our mammoth interview with Peter Molyneux right here. Be sure to check the site tomorrow for the second part.

EDIT:
Here's an interesting take on Spore and the DRM controversy, from a company called Arxan Technology, who does security and protection for IPs

[gpw11]

Well, I hit the Space stage today, and I'm liking it a lot more.  I still have the same opinion that (for at least the previous stages), the game is like a giant Tamagochi.  The first four phases really seem like nothing more than a prolonged character creater for the final stage, which is cool or lame depending on how you look at it.   I also still feel there's no problem not letting the RTS "expert" review.  To be honest, I think it'd be a mistake TO let him do it. 

[gpw11]

BORED. I think I'm done with it.

[idolminds]

It begins.

[Quemaqua]

Every time EA release an expansion pack, a fairy dies of a broken heart.

[Ghandi]

It's funny because it will sell.

[Pugnate]

Releasing an expansion that fast will alienate the core gamers even further. They will be suspicious -- with all right -- that the original game was deliberately nerfed in order to make way for easy expansions.

Why the hell didn't EA wait? It is like they see a goose with the golden eggs.

[MysterD]

Releasing an expansion that fast will alienate the core gamers even further. They will be suspicious -- with all right -- that the original game was deliberately nerfed in order to make way for easy expansions.

Why the hell didn't EA wait? It is like they see a goose with the golden eggs.

If EA sells it, casual gamers will come...

The Sims and its 50000 expansions proved this.
This is why I will often wait on EA's complete boxes for Sims games.

[Xessive]

Was anybody really surprised? Sure EA has broken its own record by bringing it out so soon, but is anyone shocked?

[MysterD]

Was anybody really surprised? Sure EA has broken its own record by bringing it out so soon, but is anyone shocked?

Not me.

[MysterD]

Will Wright speaks on Spore's DRM

Will Wright attended the Popular Mechanics Breakthrough Awards ceremony at the Hearst Tower in New York City last night where he saw Spore pick up an award for Setting Benchmarks in Design, Creativity and Engineering. I caught up with him afterward for a bit to find out his take on the whole DRM situation. EA's John Riccitiello said a few days prior that he isn't a fan of DRM, but something had to be done to stop those pirates. I asked Wright how involved he was in the decision process to include DRM for Spore or if it was mostly EA's doing.

  "It was something I probably should have tuned into more. It was a corporate decision to go with DRM on Spore. They had a plan and the parameters, but now we’re allowing more authentications and working with players to de-authenticate which makes it more in line like an iTunes. I think one of the most valid concerns about it was you could only install it so many times. For most players it’s not an issue, it’s a pretty small percentage, but some people do like wiping their hard disk and installing it 20 times or they want to play it 10 years later."

I’m not sure if I totally agree it’s a non-issue only involving a smaller percentage, why else would EA care so much to go back and alleviate some of the complaints? Clearly, DRM is not the best way to go to help prevent piracy, so I asked Wright if he thinks the DRM model is here to stay or if it’s only temporary.

   

"I think it’s an interim solution to an interim problem. You have games like Battlefield Heroes coming out where the idea is you give away the game and sell upgrades, which works more in the Asian markets where you need to monetize it over the Internet. I think we’re in this uncomfortable spot in going from what’s primarily a brick and mortar shrink-wrapped product to what eventually will become more of an online monetization model."

[Pugnate]

I think we’re in this uncomfortable spot in going from what’s primarily a brick and mortar shrink-wrapped product to what eventually will become more of an online monetization model

And that will be when I stop playing PC games.

[Quemaqua]

That'll be when I start looking for my own personal supply of plutonium.

[MysterD]

I think we’re in this uncomfortable spot in going from what’s primarily a brick and mortar shrink-wrapped product to what eventually will become more of an online monetization model

And that will be when I stop playing PC games.

I still think until we get much faster connections, I won't be fully into the online downloading thing -- b/c I'm sorry, but some of these games that are 15 GB, I just don't want to take forever to download.

Putting up with doing all the Witcher: EE Upgrade downloads was enough!

Also, I would like to be able to back-up the full game and all of its files OR the whole installer EXE, too -- a la what Steam and GOG allow for.

About online monetizing models, ugh -- unless I'm buying say mini-expansions or full-sized expansions for their usual going rate or cheaper, I dunno' how interested I'd be in a such a thing.

I definitely would NOT be into buying content by the item -- like buying armor, weapons, game maps/levels, etc etc. No, skip that crap.

EDIT:
For Spore-renters, Version 1.02 is out now. I'm sure you'll be able to find it.

[Pugnate]

I think people are getting too lazy. What happened to the excitement of going down to the game's store, picking up the box, standing in line whilst admiring the boxart, and rushing home. For me, that was part of the fun.

[MysterD]

I think people are getting too lazy. What happened to the excitement of going down to the game's store, picking up the box, standing in line whilst admiring the boxart, and rushing home. For me, that was part of the fun.

I like doing all of that above -- except for standing in line.

I don't mind digital distribution, as long as I can make a back-up to disc my entire game-folder AND/OR a full game installer EXE.

[Xessive]

That pretty much expresses all of my fears for the future of PC gaming.

I will always go for the physical copy of a game if I can, even if it costs a little more than a digitally distributed counterpart.

Exclusive digital distribution basically acknowledges and approves of the "Draconian" DRM system.

The world is getting smaller and scarier for me.

[MysterD]

There's very few that actually I really like for DRM when it comes to digital distribution -- Stardock and GOG come to mind.

Sure, I buy from Steam now and again, but that's when a game's dirt cheap and I can't find a physical copy of the thing -- like say the game is $10 or less.

[Pugnate]

Please internet, don't say "Draconian" anymore.

[MysterD]

Please internet, don't say "Draconian" anymore.

Draco will always live on in infamy.
So will the word Draconian when it comes to harsh-DRM.

[Xessive]

Please internet, don't say "Draconian" anymore.

Hehe I was gonna make a reference to Orwell's 1984 (what with all the monitoring and borderline thought-crime conviction) but "Craconian" was the buzz word this month

I can refer to Piracy as "Machiavellian" if you prefer?

[gpw11]

I can't speak for anyone else, but as a pretty big fan of the political philosophy behind "The Prince", I would like you to go ahead and do that.

[Pugnate]

Spore has no sold nearly 2 mil.:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55652

[Quemaqua]

If you can't fucking figure out how to turn a profit when selling anywhere from 2 to 4 million copies of your popular titles, there's something sincerely wrong with the way you do business.  Fucking Madden should cost about five dollars to make.  It should be practically development-free.  It's the same fucking game every year, yet you still sell jillions of copies, and it still looks and plays like ass every time.  How can you not swing a profit with 4.5 million in sales of a lousy and kind of broken (as I understand it) version of the same game you put out last year?

I'd say that they'd make up for it in Spore expansions, which will follow the same formula of being worthless and costing nothing, yet they'll charge full price and sell millions of copies, but maybe it won't work as well as they think if the same isn't paying off with Madden.  Maybe John Riccitello should stop wiping his ass with toilet paper made of silk extracted from ancient silkworms in Madagascar that are farmed through slaver labor.  Or whatever it is he does that I'm sure is grossly disproportionate to what he does for gaming, which is nothing at best, and at worst, helping to fuck it up even more.

[Pugnate]

I think the problem was that while those titles sold well, everything else did miserably. It is like how well TDK did, yet the film industry didn't do as well as previous years. I am impressed by 1.2 million for Warhammer Online though.

[MysterD]

New Spore Class-Action lawsuit is taking on Spore, EA, and aiming to also shut down Securom.

And here's that class-action lawsuit document, in PDF format right here.

[angrykeebler]

I GOT IT I GOT IT

HAMLET

[MysterD]

Spore might be going to Steam.

Oh, yeah -- EULA Posted for Spore's Steam version already