Topic: Upgrades, Vista, and RAM... OH MY!

[W7RE]

EDIT: I'm not sure if this should have gone in the help forum or not, but I guess it's too late. Feel free to move it.

I don't know all that much about the PC I'm running, as I was given the parts and I"m kind of out of the loop on PC hardware, but here's what it's got in it:

ASUS CROSSHAIR AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard
SAPPHIRE 100242TXSR Radeon Toxic HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5200CZBOX
Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (PC2 4200) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model CT2KIT12864AA53E
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171023

1) So I want to upgrade the RAM probably. Unfortunately, much more ram and I'l need Vista, and I have no idea which version to go for, and if I should go retail or OEM. I thought I read in another thread somewhere that the OEM version would only allow me to install to this machine and one other in the future. I'd hate to upgrade a couple times and lose my OS. Also, how can I determine the voltage of the ram I need? I'm browsing newegg and some of the stuff I'm seeing is 1.9V and higher, but CPUZ says the stuff I have now is running at 1.8V.

2) Is my CPU ok? I was just talking to a friend and he seemed to think my CPU was my biggest bottleneck, but I'm not so sure.

3) I was looking at THIS LCD. Does anyone have any kind of opinions or suggestions on LCD monitors?

[TheOtherBelmont]

Acer makes good stuff for a cheaper price, I've been using a 19" Acer LCD monitor for over 2 years now and it hasn't failed me yet.

[W7RE]

Yea, my old 20" monitors I bought in phoenix both died, so now I'm using a hand-me-down 15" CRT rofl.

[W7RE]

Yea, I'm spamming my own thread. I'm bored though, with nothing to do while waiting for the Warhammer open beta to start (tomorrow morning!).

Here's what I'm looking at:
22" LCD widescreen monitor - $200
4GB RAM - $75
TOTAL = $275

OR I make the jump to Vista. My motherboard only supports 8GB of RAM, so I should be ok with Windows Vista Home Premium. Since I'm gonna have to reinstall the OS, I might as well get a SATA hard drive since I'm running a 100GB EIDE one that's years old. This gives me:

22" LCD widescreen monitor - $200
8GB RAM (same as above, but 2 sets) - $150
Windows Vista Home Premium - $100
500GB SATA hard drive - $75
TOTAL = $525

Does the extra 4GB of ram and the better hard drive seem worth the extra $250? I guess the big problem here is that I have to buy a damn OS if I want more RAM.

[WindAndConfusion]

How many DIMM slots do you have? You already have 2GB, and you're planning to buy at least another 4GB, so that would give you 6GB. I have 4GB of RAM, and I run multiple operating systems simultaneously (under virtualization), but I don't think I've ever used even 3GB.

6144 megabytes ought to be enough for anybody.

[W7RE]

I have 4 slots on the board. I currently have 2 sticks of 1GB each being used. Since the RAM I have now is slightly older and slower than what I would be buying, I was going to replace those with the new pair of 2GB sticks. If I make the jump to Vista I'll just buy double the RAM and have four 2GB sticks, for 8GB total.

I'm anticipating a metric shitload of players on screen while sieging keeps in Warhammer Online, and I'm hoping the additional RAM will help keep my framerates from dropping too low.

[Pugnate]

I'll post some info for you in a few hours... especially on the monitors.

[Pugnate]

I thought I read in another thread somewhere that the OEM version would only allow me to install to this machine and one other in the future.

Yes, while that is true, how much more are you paying for retail? Also, keep in mind, Windows 7 is scheduled to be out late next year. Not that you shouldn't go for Vista now, but that fact might affect your decision in terms of OEM or retail.

Also, how can I determine the voltage of the ram I need? I'm browsing newegg and some of the stuff I'm seeing is 1.9V and higher, but CPUZ says the stuff I have now is running at 1.8V.

I am not sure what you mean. The biggest headache you have regarding RAM is just compatibility. You shouldn't be worrying about voltage, since all mobos should be able to support a wide range RAM voltage. When you buy the RAM, it should have the specs on the box, including the recommended RAM timings as well as recommended voltage. Oh and I often notice a slight discrepancy between CPU-Z and my BIOS readings myself.

But once you decide on the RAM, troll the anandtech forums as well as the Newegg community to see if it has any issues with your mobo. Normally, the most popular brands (like Kingston) seem to do OK with most mobos. But yes, you could do with a RAM upgrade.

Is my CPU OK? I was just talking to a friend and he seemed to think my CPU was my biggest bottleneck, but I'm not so sure.

You plan to primarily game, correct? Then your CPU is more than OK.

I was looking at THIS LCD. Does anyone have any kind of opinions or suggestions on LCD monitors?

You want a 22'' LCD? From what I understand, the VX2255wm by Viewsonic is the best in that class. I have the VX2235, and am merely satisfied, but apparently the VX2255wm improves on its predecessor immensely.

Anyway, here is the best resource for LCD monitors:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y

You can also ask questions, and the guy will assist you.

Here is a website where you can look at direct head to head comparisons of LCDs under various tests (gaming, color etc)

http://www.digitalversus.com/

Also, they have some informative reviews. The LCDs are listed under "Screens".

[scottws]

8 GB of RAM?  Holy crap.  I guess you can never have too much RAM, but I thought I was going over the top with 4.  Just be aware that a 32-bit OS will generally not see over 3 GB.  Also be aware that while Vista is poopy compared to XP, Vista x64 is way better than XP x64.

[Pugnate]

Yea I am not sure why you want to go with 8, when your processor/mobo may need an upgrade in a couple of years.

[W7RE]

Well, all of the stuff I listed is what I already have and am running right now. I thoguht it would be more than enough. I'm running Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed great. What I don't get though, is that Warhammer Online slows down at times. I'm seeing an average of 40-45 FPS, with high traffic areas dropping me to 20-25. I have the cash to upgrade right now, and I was assuming my RAM was the weakest part of my system.

I'm not married to the 22" size, it just seemed like the right spot for a cheap pricepoint. I was eyeballing 19-20" LCDs and saw that 22" for nearly the same price. That viewsonic is not really much more though, and right off the bat I see it has a faster response time, and a higher contrast ratio. I'll make use of your links before making my descision. thanks.

EDIT: Oh and the 8 gigs was just, I guess "well it's kinda cheap, so why not?" The board supports 8 gigs. If a new version of windows is coming out in a year or so, I'd probably be fine with the "2 motherboard" OEM version. (which is about $100 cheaper than the retail)

[scottws]

There's nothing wrong with getting 8 GB of RAM, it's just well... it's just a lot.  But you're right RAM is cheap.  And if you do get Vista or the next version of Windows, it will use that RAM effectively.

I think you're misleading yourself if you think more RAM will help your framerate, especially if you already have 2 GB.  That's usually a rendering thing related to your CPU, GPU, or VRAM.  More RAM means less reliance on a large swap file, but if you were swapping stuff from the hdd in the middle of a game it would probably get way less than 20fps.

Maybe the game is just coded crappy.  Who knows.

[W7RE]

It's probably just that the game still needs tweaking. It IS in beta still (thought retail starts in 2 weeks).

What I'll probably do is just get 4GB of ram and replace the 2GB I have in there already, and stick with XP. Oh, and I needz me a shiny new monitor too.

[Pugnate]

There's nothing wrong with getting 8 GB of RAM, it's just well... it's just a lot.  But you're right RAM is cheap.  And if you do get Vista or the next version of Windows, it will use that RAM effectively.

I think you're misleading yourself if you think more RAM will help your framerate, especially if you already have 2 GB.  That's usually a rendering thing related to your CPU, GPU, or VRAM.  More RAM means less reliance on a large swap file, but if you were swapping stuff from the hdd in the middle of a game it would probably get way less than 20fps.

Maybe the game is just coded crappy.  Who knows.

Hey I had question for you Scott. I realize that 32-bit OSs are restricted to 3 GB, but what about 64-bit? What is its limitation?

[scottws]

16 exabytes (17.2 billion gigabytes).

[beo]

mmmm.... exabytes.

[W7RE]

I ended up going with 4GB of ram, no OS upgrade, and a 22" monitor that was listed as the #1 pick in Pugnate's link. Same size as the monitor that I was considering, but better response time and contrast ratio. I got it this past wednesday and it looks amazing. I spend half my time on the PC looking for wallpapers so it looks as good as possible while I'm not sitting at it lol.

[W7RE]

Oh I had another question. Does anyone have any recommendations on headsets? Mine are these little flimsy things, and I wouldn't mind something with a bit more ooomph to the sound, and maybe big cushiony pads on them. I was looking around newegg and every headset seems to have mixed reviews. One guy says they lasted him a week and sounded tinny, another guy says they're the best headset he's had and will probably last him years.

Also there seems to be a lot of surround sound headphones once you reach the $40-50 price point. I'm sure it sounds great, but stereo is fine with me and I don't know if spending extra for surround is worth it to me no matter how good it is, unless it's just not that much of an option and has become more of a standard.

[Pugnate]

16 exabytes (17.2 billion gigabytes).

no OS upgrade, and a 22" monitor that was listed as the #1 pick in Pugnate's link.

Did you go for that LG? Also, congrats.

I spend half my time on the PC looking for wallpapers so it looks as good as possible while I'm not sitting at it lol.

Check these two sites, if you haven't already.

http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_beta/downloads/date/any/

http://wallpapers.jurko.net/widescreen/

Oh I had another question. Does anyone have any recommendations on headsets? Mine are these little flimsy things, and I wouldn't mind something with a bit more ooomph to the sound, and maybe big cushiony pads on them. I was looking around newegg and every headset seems to have mixed reviews. One guy says they lasted him a week and sounded tinny, another guy says they're the best headset he's had and will probably last him years.

Also there seems to be a lot of surround sound headphones once you reach the $40-50 price point. I'm sure it sounds great, but stereo is fine with me and I don't know if spending extra for surround is worth it to me no matter how good it is, unless it's just not that much of an option and has become more of a standard.

Let us know when you have an answer. I am interested in a decent pair myself.

[W7RE]

Let us know when you have an answer. I am interested in a decent pair myself.

Actually I may not be getting some after all. I just got a call about my student loan being past due and I paid it off. Now I have just enough money to get my new chair and still have enough for warhammer.

[Cobra951]

16 exabytes (17.2 billion gigabytes).

2^64.  I assume you did your math right, so I don't have to.  I remember when 4 GB sounded as outlandish as that ludicrous figure does now.

[scottws]

Nah, I didn't do any math.  I don't know of any calculator that could display enough characters to represent that number.  I just looked at the entry "64-bit" on Wikipedia.

I should note that at least some current "64-bit" CPUs such as the Athlon 64 X2 have limitations equivalent to 48-bit memory addressing.

[WindAndConfusion]

I should note that at least some current "64-bit" CPUs such as the Athlon 64 X2 have limitations equivalent to 48-bit memory addressing.

It's way more complicated than just that. I won't pretend I've read the standards, but I think it works on current AMD64-based CPUs like this:

• The total address size is 48 bits.
• 4 of these bits are reserved for Physical Address Extension, leaving 44 bits for the OS.
  
• At least one bit is used as a NX bit, although I think it's one of the four added by PAE (therefore there are still 44 bits for the OS).
  
• At least one more bit is reserved by the OS itself, for reasons that make no fucking sense to me. This means individual processes are limited to (at most) 43 bits of address space.
• The OS may reserve a few more bits for its own reasons, further limiting address space. Vista 64 is notorious for this, with each individual version (Basic, Premium, Business, etc) reserving a different number of bits so as to create market segmentation. (For instance, Vista Basic doesn't support enough RAM to be useful as a high-load server.)

You might want to read this. Obviously, this doesn't apply to different architectures.

[gpw11]

So would there currently be any benefit for the average user to upgrade from 2 GB to 4?  I run XP mainly, but do dual boot with Vista x64. The reason I'm asking now is I figure that the price is pretty much at the sweet point now, whereas if I need more in two years as I try to milk more performance out of my system, it'll probably be more due to the scarcity of DDR2-800.  Really, all I do is game and multimedia apart from the obvious office applications and limited CAD work).

[scottws]

You know that saying that you can never have too much RAM?  Well, it's even more true for Vista.  Read about Superfetch.  Yes I would definitely upgrade to 4 GB.

I looked recently and 2 GB of the DDR2-800 RAM I originally put in my system for about $200 is now $45.  $45!  How can it even be a question?!

[gpw11]

Awesome.  The thing that really has me torn is that it's more cost effective for me at this point to pull out my 2x1GB dual channel sticks of DDR2-800 and replace them with 2X2GB dual channel sticks of DDR2-1066...which leaves me with these two sticks of DD2-800 that I can't do anything with.  I guess I could keep them as backup, but I see no point to pay more for slower RAM even if the speed increase is marginal at best.