Topic: The Witcher: Rise (X360, PS3) - Update: Console version is on "hold" (Reply 19)

[MysterD]

Here's the announcement for Witcher: Rise of The White Wolf, coming in Fall 2009 for the Consoles

Now here, this is where The Witcher: Rise of the White Wolf website is at.

Oh, and here's some screenies right here at this link for it.

[Quemaqua]

I dunno'... this whole thing still makes me feel a little weird.

[Pugnate]

Yea me too. Apparently it will have a lot of cosmetic improvements. I guess that was their strategy all along. They wanted to spruce up the game for the console audience so they started working on it. The money they made on The Witcher, they reinvested in themselves completely.

At a certain point, they made enough significant improvements to release a free pack for download, and repackaged the thing for retail as "The Witcher Enhanced". It was a sound business decision, because they knew it wouldn't cost them anything to replace the old version with the updated one.

I am sure the "The White Wolf" project will be the game they wanted to release all along, but just didn't have the resources. They knew the PC crowd was more likely to put up with the lesser polish/bugs etc... so they started there. But consoles are where the real money is.

Anyway I hope they release "White Wolf" for the PC as well...

[Pugnate]

pardon the double post...

The Witcher: Rise of the White Wolf brings console gamers the same acclaimed story seen in The Witcher, the PC RPG of the Year that won more than 100 awards and sold more than a million copies. The Witcher: Rise of the White Wolf is built from the ground up to be the ultimate console RPG, featuring a brand new game engine developed in cooperation with Lyon-based Widescreen Games that delivers a new dynamic action-based combat system, beautiful graphics and lots of other features that take full advantage of the consoles’ capabilities and controls.

“Console gamers don’t want to be treated like kids; they’re ready for deep story-driven games, and we think we’re delivering one of the deepest console RPGs ever with The Witcher: Rise of the White Wolf,” said Adam Kicinski, CEO of CD Projekt RED. “The only thing we’re taking directly from The Witcher is the story; everything else is being created from scratch or significantly reworked to get us to our end goal of delivering the ultimate console RPG.”

OK I know I am going to sound like a whiney little bitch here, but that kinda rubs me the wrong way.

I mean, had they either ported the PC version with improvements, or just done a direct cross platform sequel, I would have been quite happy.

But the fact that they took the original game, and then put it in a brand new engine is just not right. It just feels weird to me, that the game I bought twice and spent over a $100 on, is being released again -- and just in a brand new engine. It actually sorta takes away the value and importance of the PC version.

I don't see why they couldn't have just ported this game, and then used the brand new engine for a direct sequel? Hell, I don't even care that it isn't coming to the PC. It just feels cheap.

I'll tell you one thing... had this been George Lucas, the internet would have been outraged.

[Dragonlor]

honestly pc gaming is going down hill.  Most pc games are ports from consoles minus this one exception.  All that's going to be left for original pc gaming are MMOs, and even that's pushing it.  Now that consoles are becoming more used over the internet I can see alot of mmos going to console as well.  CD project is just like any other company.  They want more money.

[Pugnate]

honestly pc gaming is going down hill.  Most pc games are ports from consoles minus this one exception.  All that's going to be left for original pc gaming are MMOs, and even that's pushing it.  Now that consoles are becoming more used over the internet I can see alot of mmos going to console as well.  CD project is just like any other company.  They want more money.

Absolutely... I see nothing wrong with that. Which is why I find some of the attacks on Valve funny, and the angelic treatment given to stardock a bit extreme.

They are all in it for the money to some degree. Yes some more than others, but expanding horizons is about survival.

My issue with The Witcher isn't that they are going console... my issue is that they are remaking the same game in a brand new engine for the consoles.

It sort of devalues the first effort.

And it isn't like The Witcher is a old or bad looking game either. It isn't like it is a ten year old game.

If they had simply updated the game for the consoles, I would have been fine. Or if they had just released a DIRECT SEQUEL IN A BRAND NEW ENIGINE... I would have been fine as well.

But to take essentialy the same game and just make it in a new engine just doesn't feel right. Why didn't they port the current game and then make a sequel?

Again, I liken it to the reception George Lucas receives on the internet for something like this.

It isn't really a huge deal of course. It just feels bad.

[MysterD]

Pug, have you been reading The Witcher's boards?

A lot of PC gamers are bullshit with CD Projekt for doing an online "treasure hunt" to reveal a console game -- since their community currently is pretty much a PC gaming crowd.

Oh, if *that* wasn't enough, The Witcher: Rise of The White Wold (consoles) is really going to be more like The Witcher: Enhanced - The Even More Enhanced Remake.

EDIT:
Here's some threads where the whole debate of Witcher: EE PC vs. Witcher: Rise of the White Wolf (Console), future of PC gaming, future of CDPR, and other things are being discussed:

The Hunt Starts NOW Thread...
Witcher: Rise of The White Wolf thread

[Quemaqua]

That's my issue.  It seems like this basically takes away the joy of what Witcher: EE was.  Yay, we got the enhanced edition!  They love us!  But then if they go out and make an even better one that you can't play unless you play it on a console... wait, what?  But what about all the goodwill you just built with the free EE stuff?  Suddenly that feels worthless because you won't be playing the best version of the game anymore, you'll be playing the substandard version.  Of course in a lot of ways it's a ridiculous nitpick, but it's hard not to feel that way about it.  When you're going to experience something, you want to experience it as the best possible thing.  You want the best quality.  Why would you knowingly dilute your experience by playing/reading/viewing something inferior?  So when you find out you aren't getting the best version, that blows.  But it blows even more when you feel like you were gifted with a package of upgrades and improvements that made something original even better, only to have yet another thing you can't play (or will have to go pay for) come out elsewhere.  It just sort of makes things feel cheap.

I don't give a shit about the engine, I just hate it when companies do things like this.  Either treat everyone equally, or treat your loyal fanbase better than everyone else.  Those are your two options as far as I'm concerned if you want to rise above the average company that seeks only to improve its bottom line and damn all other considerations.

[MysterD]

That's my issue.  It seems like this basically takes away the joy of what Witcher: EE was.
  Yay, we got the enhanced edition!  They love us!

Exactly Que.

See, if they were porting Witcher: EE content-wise as it was over to the consoles -- you'd have to do the usual console changes to make it work on the console -- such as let it support control pads and give it a more console-like Interface for Inventory, who would really complain? In the end, it still would be Witcher: EE on the consoles.

Witcher: Rise of the White Wolf is going to be way more than the above kind of PC -> console port. 

But then if they go out and make an even better one that you can't play unless you play it on a console... wait, what?  But what about all the goodwill you just built with the free EE stuff?  Suddenly that feels worthless because you won't be playing the best version of the game anymore, you'll be playing the substandard version.

Of course in a lot of ways it's a ridiculous nitpick, but it's hard not to feel that way about it.  When you're going to experience something, you want to experience it as the best possible thing.  You want the best quality.  Why would you knowingly dilute your experience by playing/reading/viewing something inferior?  So when you find out you aren't getting the best version, that blows.  But it blows even more when you feel like you were gifted with a package of upgrades and improvements that made something original even better, only to have yet another thing you can't play (or will have to go pay for) come out elsewhere.  It just sort of makes things feel cheap.

I don't give a shit about the engine, I just hate it when companies do things like this.  Either treat everyone equally, or treat your loyal fanbase better than everyone else.  Those are your two options as far as I'm concerned if you want to rise above the average company that seeks only to improve its bottom line and damn all other considerations.

Exactly.

[Pugnate]

Again, if ten years had passed, this would have been much easier to swallow.

But the whole thing makes me feel sad.

[gpw11]

Well, I'm not excited about it, but I can certainly see where they're coming from.  Later ports or versions of games often have at least some added content and/or upgrades.  Sure, it's cool that they decided to give out the EE content for free to original buyers for the PC, but I can't really see that being an option here. If that were the case what would the point of porting that content at all be?  The game's been released twice for PC, anyone who wants it either has it or can't play it. There's no money there. Conversly, a shitload of work has to be put in to even get it on the consoles in the first place and it's an untapped market for them.  It's a good investment to do some upgrades in order to try and make the game more enticing for those who have never heard of it before.   

Obviously people would have a point if it was a completely new game announced only for consoles, but some upgrades for new formats are nothing new and something that benefits PC gamers more often than the other way around.  The 'fan' reaction seems like a whole lot of "I supported you and deserve free shit" with a little of "I'm a PC gamer and we're huge self-conscious bitches when it comes to stuff like this" mixed in.

[Pugnate]

It is actually a new engine, designed from the ground up.

[MysterD]

Well, I'm not excited about it, but I can certainly see where they're coming from.  Later ports or versions of games often have at least some added content and/or upgrades.

And that's not fair.

It was definitely not fair at all that GOW PC got a few Extra Chapters that the original X360 version NEVER SAW. X360 should've got those (very few) extra chapters as free DLC, anyways.

Sure, it's cool that they decided to give out the EE content for free to original buyers for the PC, but I can't really see that being an option here. If that were the case what would the point of porting that content at all be?

To port that game to the console, console gamers that don't do PC gaming or don't have a PC to run Witcher: EE can run the thing on their console.

The game's been released twice for PC, anyone who wants it either has it or can't play it. There's no money there.

I'd guess many console gamers would've jumped up and down for a direct Witcher: EE port.

That could've added new content to the console version of the game, but that content should be released as DLC (to buy or for free, doesn't matter) for PC gamers to come and get.

Conversely, a shitload of work has to be put in to even get it on the consoles in the first place and it's an untapped market for them.  It's a good investment to do some upgrades in order to try and make the game more enticing for those who have never heard of it before.

I'd have no complaint if CDPR decided, "Let's port Witcher: Rise of The White Wolf to the PC" and try to sell it to us. I'm sure, I'd eventually buy it.

Obviously people would have a point if it was a completely new game announced only for consoles, but some upgrades for new formats are nothing new and something that benefits PC gamers more often than the other way around. 

The game is getting a NEW engine entirely, new animations, new character models, etc etc. They are basically REMAKING Witcher: EE over again on a brand-new engine -- and giving it a new combat scheme/style based around the control pads, too.

The 'fan' reaction seems like a whole lot of "I supported you and deserve free shit" with a little of "I'm a PC gamer and we're huge self-conscious bitches when it comes to stuff like this" mixed in.

I would NOT be surprised if CDPR pulls a Bioware and decides after its console version sales sell well, they decide to bring The Witcher games first to the console and then directly over to the PC later.

And people wonder why the state of PC gaming is hurting. It's b/c of these console-centric attitudes -- thinking all of the money is THERE. And dev's wonder why their PC versions of games don't sell so hot, especially since the game been already out on the console? What the hell did you expect?

Also, many developers that start out as PC-only developers decide to jump over to console gaming with PC ports to be coming later. Also, many games that have had been on the console first and then later brought to the PC, the PC version wound up botched b/c they were lazy -- i.e. see the endless list of complaints with GTA4 PC.

Co-developing your games for both platforms I think is the way to go, even if it means a long development process -- a la BethSoft developing FO3 for PC and consoles at the same time. This way, when the game drops, gamers who own both a console and PC don't get pigeonholed into saying, "I guess I have no choice but to get the console version of the game since I can't wait for this game title, since the PC version ain't out yet."

[Pugnate]

thinking all of the money is THERE

Not thinking... knowing...

[Xessive]

I've tried thinking about it from their perspective and I think what it comes down to is the work they will do on this new Witcher strictly from a console base. They are going to develop the same story in a new engine for consoles only, which they will profit from of course. If they were to make the same story for PC with a new engine I doubt they'd sell quite as well if at all.

In the end it's just them bringing The Witcher to consoles.

Think of it as they're bringing The Witcher to portables or Java on cell phones.

I have the EE already so I'm not gonna spill some extra cash just to get it on PS3, however I will recommend it to my cousin whose PC is not powerful enough to run it decently.

[gpw11]

It is actually a new engine, designed from the ground up.

It's the same thing though.  The core of the game is essentially the same to the point that the only people who would buy it again should it be released on PC are the very small group of people willing to buy the game twice for what still looks like a pretty minor upgrade.  I don't know if it would be worth it for them to port since pretty much the only people buying it would be the very very small percentage of people who both liked the game a lot and were willing to drop coin on it twice.   I get what you're saying about it being on a new engine, and thus different, but I kind of see a difference between this and, say, Doom 3 being a remake of Doom.

But D, you realize that they're a business right?  Like they aren't just making games to keep people happy?  If they decide it's probably profitable to release this version on PC they'll probably do so.  Beyond that, it's not like you're entitled to anything after you buy the game.  They released something, you bought it.  Transaction over.  They don't owe you anything just as you don't owe them anything. Should you get something extra later for free that's a bonus, it's not an obligation on their part.  There's nothing stopping anyone from playing every game released, you just have to make the investment.

[MysterD]

If they decide it's probably profitable to release this version on PC they'll probably do so.

That's what I'd like to see.

Beyond that, it's not like you're entitled to anything after you buy the game.  They released something, you bought it.  Transaction over.  They don't owe you anything just as you don't owe them anything.

Yes -- I bought Witcher. And that is the end of that transaction, so be it.
But, it wasn't -- they gave us Witcher: EE, so I upgraded to that.

I want to be able to make another transaction to this company -- I want Witcher: ROTWW on the PC. I will pay for it, to have it on a new engine and all of that jazz. This is all I'm asking for -- for ROTWW to be ported here. I don't care if I have to buy it or get a free upgrade.

If they don't port it to the PC, nothing I can do about that...

Should you get something extra later for free that's a bonus, it's not an obligation on their part.

Agreed.

[MysterD]

Interview on GameSpot here with CD Projekt RED's Tomasz Gop on Witcher: ROTWW for the consoles.

[MysterD]

Rumor has been circulating around that this console version might get canceled.

CD Projekt says they will reveal details on the fate of the console port "soon".

[MysterD]

Widescreen games -- who is co-developing Witcher: Rise with CD Projekt -- are both putting the game on "hold."
Widescreen claims they haven't been paid recently and that their game is working technically fine.

EDIT:
Now, here's CD Projekt's response to them, which claims that Widescreen has not been meeting deadlines, that some of CDP's staff has been helping them out, and other things.

[Quemaqua]

That's pretty crazy.  You don't see stuff like this happen as often as you'd think.

[MysterD]

Looks like CDPR is going to announcing something soon on the future of The Witcher: Rise of The White Wolf.

Furthermore, Rise of the White Wolf "remains suspended" rather than canned following Atari funding issues, meaning the console-only game could be back on the cards at some point. A proper statement about the future of White Wolf will be released soon, the developer told us.