Topic: Brutal Legend to be published by...ugh...EA

[MysterD]

Buying a new vid card is no guarantee that you will play every game that is released, even in that year alone. It's an arbitrary assumption.

But it's a major assumption. Why else would someone upgrade to say a GeForce 9800? B/c it largely exceeds the game "reccomended requirements" on the box for X game(s) and/or is one of the "supported chipsets on the box." Honestly, I upgraded to a GeForce 8800 GT so I could run Crysis, Mass Effect PC, and a handful of other games I saw that wanted a 256 MB GeForce 6800+ back when I had a 128 MB GeForce 6600 GT. Many games were aiming for a minimum GeForce 6800 or above and still do (like Assassin's Creed PC) -- hell, some like Alone in the Dark PC, Guitar Hero 3 PC, and Stranglehold PC are even higher (requiring a 7xxx series cards) -- so I eventually joined the pack.

I'm sure people will upgrade any pieces of hardware -- ranging from any processor to RAM to a video card -- just to run X game(s).

There are no guarantees with any system with certain games -- look at GTA4 PC and Bully PC.

Any time word of mouth gets around that, "This game is buggy", sales usually drastically drop. Especially if it ain't patched up decently quite fast. So, this results in people will probably wait until a game is patched up to buy the game and/or just pirate the game to punch the company in the face for releasing a buggy piece of trash.

You know, we can speculate all day...

[Xessive]

Not necessarily. I remember a few people from university who don't even play games but always rack their systems up with killer vid cards, sound cards, cpu's and shit. It's like assuming that a guy who builds a hot rod is guaranteed to go street racing.

You're right about the bad development or porting. And you're right that we can just speculate all day hehe but we won't!

Anyway, one system of measuring sales that I don't really understand is when a certain console-friendly title comes out on multiple platforms and the test is always whether or not it does well on PC. For example the new PoP. If they really want to measure up PC sales vs PC piracy rates they should do it with a PC exclusive title.

[Cobra951]

I'm not saying I don't believe piracy happens.  All I'm saying is that pointing out there are X number of cards sold doesn't tell anyone anything than there are X number of cards sold.  We've been through that before, and I thought we'd put it to rest pretty soundly.

Well . . . yeah, that's all we can know for sure.  But there's nothing wrong with speculating about why people would spend a few hundred bucks on upgrading their video capability.  I can understand someone buying a whole system that happens to include a top-of-the-line vidcard, just because they want the best out of the box.  I have more trouble accepting that they would go out of their way to perform surgery on their PCs unless they intend to use the upgrades.  What is a video-card upgrade good for?  Not for Excel.  Not even for Powerpoint.   Certainly not email or web browsing.  Movies have been handled competently for years, though I can see someone who's anal about high-def out of their PCs being just as likely as game fanatics to upgrade video hardware.  I suspect their upgrades would tend to favor decoding and resolution over polygon pushing.  I don't know if there are such choices anymore.  (I'm out of the loop on new hardware, so it wouldn't surprise me if the best card for both applications is the same now.  Do they still make cards like the 3-in-Wonder, aimed more at videos than games?)

There may not be an equation here.  I can see that.  But there has to be some strong connection between video-card upgrades and graphics-intensive software use.  If an alternative exists, I want to know what it is.

[scottws]

I see what you're saying Cobra.  But does saying "There have been 25 million 8800-series cards sold" tell you anything about how many bought one for inclusion in a new system vs. upgrading from a lesser model?  Does it tell you anything about RMAs?

If you read the previous argument at all, you might understand better where I'm coming from and why I've made these statements in this thread.  I don't remember what thread it was in, but Pug was trying to relate the relatively poor sales of Crysis, Unreal Tournament III, and Gears of War to the number of 8800-series cards sold as a way to illustrate rampant piracy.  It was a poor argument then and it's a poor one now.  There are many factors why those three games sold poorly (actually I think Crysis made a rebound but that's besides the point), and piracy is but one.  Illustrating how many 8800-series cards have been sold as it is somehow definitive proof of piracy with very little other information provided is ultimately fruitless as it tells you only once small piece of a very large puzzle.

Look, we all know piracy happens.  The wool isn't pulled over my eyes.  But you will never convince me that just because a certain series of cards were sold that X number of games should have been sold.  This isn't the console market.  PCs are used for other things.

By the way, when I mentioned sportscars earlier, I wasn't talking about Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Aston Martins exclusively.  I was talking about things like Mustang GTs, Camaros, Corvettes, Porches, Lancer EVOs, etc.  None of those cars are several hundred thousand dollars.  Just because you have a big engine doesn't mean you race the thing.  I think it was perfectly acceptable counter-argument.

[Pugnate]

You choose to still ignore the reason why I brought up the number of 8800s sold. As I recall, when we earlier talked about Crysis selling poorly (during its first month of release), many, including yourself, stated that not enough people had 8800+ cards to run the game. That's why I mentioned the 10 mil. stat, and I explained this last time as well, but people tend to conveniently forget about that. You can go ahead and look at the thread where we last had this debate. I mentioned this back then as well.

So here is what I think. Co-relating the number of high end video cards with the sales of Crysis is only valid when it suits arguments that games like Crysis didn't sell well because people didn't have the hardware. But, as soon as we learn that not only such powerful systems matched the console hardware sales, but exceeded them by a good 50%, it isn't a good argument?

I am sorry, but that's b.s., and that's hypocritical. A poor argument should be a poor argument regardless. Not just when it suits your point of view.

edit:

Should add, that I am not really pissed or anything, even if it may appear from this post. It sounds rougher than I meant it to be.

[Xessive]

Speaking of Crysis, remember when Crytek said they were developing it to be scalable? That it would run on older systems? Good times.

Regarding hardware that signals game purchases, what about gaming peripherals? like gamepads, joysticks, and steering wheels? I know they don't really apply to all games but might suggest something about cross-platform games. Or even gaming mice and keyboards.

[Pugnate]

Speaking of Crysis, remember when Crytek said they were developing it to be scalable? That it would run on older systems? Good times.

Regarding hardware that signals game purchases, what about gaming peripherals? like gamepads, joysticks, and steering wheels? I know they don't really apply to all games but might suggest something about cross-platform games. Or even gaming mice and keyboards.

Well it does... just like an old man.

Steering wheels and joysticks are poor sellers on the PC these days. Mice and keyboards are cheap enough to sell multiple times to the same person. But those items are as singular purposed as video cards.

This isn't the console market.  PCs are used for other things.

See that's the thing. Here we are talking about high end video cards. Until two weeks ago, your 8800 series card was useless outside of gaming. Finally, we have a patch that allows high end Nvidia cards to boost photoshop performance (and even now, not by much). Even now, you need a card specifically designed for video work. 3D studio max is still unaffected by having a powerful gaming card... for that sorta thing you actually need a workstation card, which doesn't work for gaming.

See, if we were talking about processors, or RAM, I would understand and your counter arguments would be valid. Not everyone has high end processors/RAM to game. In fact, most do to run their profession related applications faster.

But we are talking about video cards here. They don't have multiple purposes. In fact, consoles are more multipurpose than high end video cards. So I really don't understand how the rules change when it comes to them. Video cards have absolutely no other purpose than gaming.

edit:

Also, I apologize for hijacking this thread etc etc.

[K-man]

Video cards have absolutely no other purpose than gaming.

edit:

Also, I apologize for hijacking this thread etc etc.

I'm terribly out of the loop on video cards, so I'm not exactly sure what the threshold is nowadays.  But would it not be fair to take into account the number of cards that will come prepackaged with big box PC's or otherwise?  Surely that counts for a somewhat significant percentage.

[Pugnate]

No, I am sure it does.

The stat I read was until the end of 2008, there were 10 million 8800 series cards alone sold. 2.5 million 8800gts were sold in 6 weeks in North America alone. These weren't prepackaged, and these didn't include high end video cards from ATi, or Nvidia cards that came from series 9 and series GTX.

The PC gamerpodcast reported over 50 million high end cards sold (in PCs like Alienware, DELL XPS, gaming notebooks or just separately) since 2006. Separately they said something around 25 million. You guys can find the podcast on their website.

That 50 million stat was worldwide, and I am sure you can discount a huge percentage of those as second buys, upgrades (stepups), prepacked etc etc etc. I realize that. But even after subtracting those, you are left with a ton of people who bought a piece of expensive equipment to play games, because that's all that piece of equipment was designed to do. If video cards are something most people take out of the garage only once a week, then why can't the same rule be applied to consoles.

Anyway, like I said, I only brought everyone's notice to that 10 mil. stat earlier because people were blaming high end games tanking because the market lacked the hardware.

So Brutal Legend should be good. I really enjoy many of Jack Black's movies, and enjoy his sense of humor. This game should rock (ha ha).

Concept art:




Screenies: (first is from an FMV)





Game has shades of Full Throttle.

OK so it just has a motorbike.

[Quemaqua]

Good gods, have any of you guys seen the screenshots for the game up on GSpot now (probably also elsewhere)?  Holy shit, it looks amazing.  Seriously.  My jaw dropped at almost every screen they've gotten the art so perfect.  I had thought previously things looked good and such, but they've just nailed this shit.  It's even got what feels like a Full Throttle vibe every so often.

New trailer apparently, too, which is pretty funny.








Hell, I can't help it.  I need this game.  It calls to my soul.

[MysterD]

Brutal Legend does look pretty cool -- awesome artistic artwork style; cool music; some comedy that many modern games seem to lack; and the signature of Tim Shafer with Double Fine written all over it. Yeah, how can I not be interested?

Well, with no PC version announced by EA or Double Fine yet, they just ain't getting any money from me anytime soon.

Hope all goes well, Double Fine. I'd hate to see them go the way of the dodo. This game, I think, will either make them or break them, financially. I really hope they sell tons of copies on the console -- and that all goes so well, that they do intend to port this one over to the PC who are waiting for Tim Shafer to let us in on the rocking, too!

When you do, Double Fine and EA, my X360 Controller for Windows will be ready!

[Pugnate]

Oh my god! That is fantastic looking.

That almost looks a bit like that classic American animation, Heavy Metal.

[Xessive]

I am really glad Double Fine found a way to develop this. Even if it is with EA. I hope the game kicks as much (or more) ass as it seems!

[Pugnate]

That creature in the first screenie looks like something out of Del Toro's head.

[MysterD]

G4TV is showing off this game w/ Tim Schafer hosting.

This has the coolest pillar of skulls (pun intended) I've seen since probably Planescape: Torment.

This game looked awesome already -- but my God, it looks ever more kick-ass in motion and everything; especially w/ the artistry.

LMAO @ the cut-scene where Jack Black and Ophelia character are talking to each other and they are talking non-chalantly with their weapons -- and accidentally cutting enemies. Hilarious.

Double Fine, EA -- I *beg* of you now...please...please bring this to the PC in the future after this game rocks the shit out of the consoles!

We need more creativity and new shit like this and LESS freakin' ho-hum sequels.

[MysterD]

Activision is suing EA over the rights to publishing Brutal Legend -- since Activision sunk some $15 million dollars into the game before (somehow) EA became the final publisher.

EDIT:
Tim Schafer responds to the Brutal Legend lawsuit.

Activision's none too pleased about Double Fine Productions' heavy metal epic Brütal Legend having gone to EA. So it's suing the developer. What say you, Double Fine president Tim Schafer?

"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyoncé is going to sue me too."

And that's about the best official response to a lawsuit we've ever heard at Kotaku. if only legal battle could be settled in a battle of wits, instead of extended litigation and a series of public relations disasters, the world would be a better place.

[Quemaqua]

Jeez.  Somebody find a publisher that isn't shit to step in and take it away from both of them.  This game deserves better.

[Pugnate]

hahah that was pretty funny comment from Schafer.

[MysterD]

Jeez.  Somebody find a publisher that isn't shit to step in and take it away from both of them.  This game deserves better.

Yeah, no shit.

Stardock, FTW.

[wizall]

Gotta admit, this game didn't really interest me until I saw the coverage at E3. It looks like a hell of a good time.

[MysterD]

It looks like a hell of a good time.

I'd expect nothing less from Double Fine.

[Quemaqua]

I hope the game does well, if only for Double Fine's sake.  Psychonauts deserved to be so much more successful than it was, and Brutal Legend looks, like... all... legendary and stuff.

[wizall]

Christ, I can't believe I forgot to play Psychonauts. I couldn't find it on the PS2 after it had been out a while so I gave up. I think it's available for DL on the 360. Gotta nab it.

[MysterD]

Man, I really should dive back into Psychonauts, since I never finished the damn thing.
Que, did you finish it?

[Quemaqua]

Twice.

[gpw11]

"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyoncé is going to sue me too."

What?  That's a horrible, horrible line.

[MysterD]

Ronnie James Dio is no longer going to be doing any voice-over work in Brutal Legend. All his voice-over work has been removed from the game.

Tim Curry will be replacing him and taking over his role completely in Brutal Legend.

[Quemaqua]

His name is Ronnie.

Weird, either way.  Tim Curry seems like an odd replacement, but... whatever.

[MysterD]

Thanks for the correction, Que.

I don't know much about Dio, but I don't think of heavy metal when I think of Tim Curry. 
Hope he does a good job w/ the voice-acting and that it fits the game, though.

[MysterD]

Lawsuit has been settled b/t EA and Activision.

[sirean_syan]

I guess they've been showing off the multiplayer over the past couple days (it's at all the gaming sites, just take your pick and it shouldn't be hard to find) and it's all pretty surprising. After all this time I don't think I heard one mention of multiplayer even existing, let alone be anything worthwhile. Supposedly, it was even the inspiration to make the game in the first place. The craziest part is that it sounds a lot like Sacrifice in that it's somewhere in between a standard RTS and an action game. It even has the sort of weirdness to it with all the metal inspired units and such. Go fig. Maybe we'll have to try out a game or two when it comes out.

Oh yeah. A link: Fun interview with Tim Schaffer at Giant Bomb.

[Quemaqua]

I want my own Hate Cage.

That actually does sound pretty awesome.  I was a huge, huge fan of Sacrifice, and this does seem to have a similar vibe.  Ugh... I'm looking forward to this game way too much.

[MysterD]

Ugh... I'm looking forward to this game way too much.

I beg to differ - no, you are not!
I think Brutal Legend looks flippin' awesome.

[K-man]

I just finished the demo.  This game is going to kick serious amounts of ass

[Quemaqua]

I didn't even know there was a demo.  Not going to play it, though.  I know I want the game and am just going to wait.

Glad to hear favorable impressions, though.

[K-man]

Well in order to get access to the demo you had to sell your soul to the devil (Preorder at Gamestop).  The demo released today for those who preorder, next week for those who didn't.  Just so happened a Gamestop opened in my town today.

[W7RE]

I just watched a full playthrough of the demo on Youtube and now I want this. I was vaguely interested before, and now I really want it.

[K-man]

I played through the demo for the 5th time last night and I must say it still kicks ass.

[Pugnate]

So I was listening to the Giantbomb podcast, and they were were likening it to Sacrifice, which really caught me off guard. I had always assumed this was 3rd person action adventure.

[K-man]

It's mostly action, but there are some strategy elements integrated.