Topic: CNNMoney.com,"Sony's PS3 A Sinking Ship: Sales Plummet"

[Pugnate]

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/siliconalley/personal-tech/2008_12_sonys_ps3_a_sinking_ship_sales_plummet_sne.html

[Cobra951]

I saw that before, I think on Joystiq.  Did you see the story on the sidebar?  FCC blames college dropout rate on WoW.

I really hope Sony does whatever it takes to keep the PS3 alive.  Without competition, everybody loses.

[K-man]

Yeah.  I don't see the PS3 as a waste, but it's pretty easy to see that the 360 exceeds in so many ways that the PS3 does not.

[Xessive]

Isn't that what happened with the PS2? Until later when the devs got the hang of developing for it then it had a flood of titles.

The X360 is by far better when it comes to its current game library. That's about it really. I think the PS3 has yet to be tapped.

[K-man]

Isn't that what happened with the PS2? Until later when the devs got the hang of developing for it then it had a flood of titles.

The X360 is by far better when it comes to its current game library. That's about it really. I think the PS3 has yet to be tapped.

Superior online framework
price
more functional OS (why i still can't private chat with someone in-game on PS3 is baffling to me)
360 doesn't have home.

And the PS2's drought was nothing like this.

[Pugnate]

Also, by the time the Xbox and Gamecube came, The PS2 was ruling the roost.

[Xessive]

True, the PS2 had a headstart.

The network issues with the PS3 can be a bitch at times. They need to work out a lot of the options, which I'm confident will come in a system update.

I'm keeping optimistic about the PS3 anyway.

[K-man]

I'm trying to stay positive too.  However, the release of Home, and the realization that the countless delays and years of work has culminated in that steaming pile of shit certainly isn't to their credit.

It sucks too, because the system is capable of so much

[Pugnate]

I am not. I want a cheap Blu-Ray player damnit!

Honestly, a couple of years ago, I had expected the PS3 to have really come into its own with the release of games like MGS4 and GTA4. Unfortunately for Sony, GTA wasn't an exclusive for them.

We still have some heavy hitters in the form of Final Fantasy and God of War coming, so that should help.

[Xessive]

That's the major bummer here. There's so much potential that's just going to waste.

I have yet to actually log into Home since I keep getting a server error.

And I believe Final Fantasy XIII is coming to both PS3 and X360.

[iPPi]

PS3 first; Xbox360 at a later date.

Home is... meh.

[Pugnate]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13677

Xbox 360 Sales Double PS3 Sales as Sony Remains Blind to Reality

I find such headlines a little ridiculous though. It isn't like Sony can do anything to cut prices... unless they can make a PS3 version that is stripped of Blu-Ray and the HD, and sell it for $200. Even then it would be impossible to compete. Also, don't some of their games force an install? I can imagine that makes them selling a HD less version impossible. I am sure Sony realizes that the price is too high, but it isn't like they can do much about it.

No I think they are banking on the Blu-Ray to carry them home in a couple of years.

[Xessive]

I don't know about North America or Europe but here in the Middle East we have three versions of the PS3: Jap, Euro, and US.

The core differences for the 80GB editions are as follows:

Jap: Only 2 USB slots and no media card slots. Lowest price, approx. $400 USD.
Euro: 4 USB slots, full media card slots. Approx. $450 USD.
US: 4 USB slots, full media card slots, requires power adapter. Approx. $500 USD.

Needless to say the Jap and US editions are not doing very well. Even though I got a Jap edition because I had no diea there was a difference and the salesman told there was no difference between the Jap and Euro.

Not much of a variety and the only special offers that can be made are game bundles.

Btw, I just discovered that the X360 doesn't have WiFi.. Is that for all of them or does the Elite at least have it?

[K-man]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13677


No I think they are banking on the Blu-Ray to carry them home in a couple of years.

The only problem with that is the fact that blu-ray players are dropping in price.  Some are even at the 150 dollar mark.  At that point buying a PS3 for a blu-ray player starts to make a lot less sense

[K-man]

No 360 has wifi.  Only way to get it is with a 100 dollar adapter

[gpw11]

So, uh....should I not buy a PS3?  Because I don't want to buy a 360 that's going to blow up and the Wii is ...well, I got over it fast after having one for a while (although I'll probably buy another one especially for GC games once Nintendo drops the ridiculous price).  

Home looks like total garbage.  I looked it up after reading PA on the weekend and eventually came across this:  

.  The point of the video is that Home is better than Xbox live in all sorts of way, but all it does is convince me of otherwise.  Creepy Second Life avatars?  No thanks. Awkward 'real world' simulation to replace menus?  Are you fucking kidding me?  I don't want to socialize with other retards on PS3s any more than I have to...it shouldn't be this complicated.

As for the PS3 dropping in price, I'd personally like that, but yeah Sony is in a tough spot.  While the Wii is overpriced as far as I'm concerned, a lot of people don't see it that way, and the $199 Arcade 360 is a steal.  They're going to have to drop prices, but they can't really fuck with the hardware too much.  I think their main saving grace is that they can recoup a lot of their R&D cost on licencing the Cell technology for shit like video upscaling processors in televisions and future investment in Blue Ray saturation.  

[K-man]

If I were starting from a clean slate and had to pick one console to buy you'd better believe it would be a 360, even with the hardware issues.

[Ghandi]

I'm extremely happy with my PS3. The library is starting to pick up and there are plenty of good games on it. I should mention that I don't / can't go online with it.

Why anyone would invest in the 360, knowing that it will most likely fail on them, is beyond me. When the decision is based on software (which can change) as opposed to hardware (which won't change), I think that the choice is obvious. 

[PyroMenace]

Even with my unfortunate X360 experiences, I am still hesitant on getting a PS3. At one point I was sure I was getting one, it came down to a few days then money got tight and I had to back down from it. Im kinda glad it happened because I probably still wouldnt have touched it to this day but to play MGS4. However my older brother now has one and hes willing to let me borrow it so I can play it, and thats really all I want it for. Gears, Bioshock, Mass Effect, and Halo totally trump the PS3 in terms of its library.

[iPPi]

Primary reason I purchased a PS3: blu-ray.

[Ghandi]

Bioshock is on the PS3 as well. But yeah, the 360 library is undeniably better. But the PS3 library is starting to catch up.

[PyroMenace]

Not when it was released was it? Which didnt help PS3 much again either.

[Ghandi]

Nope. And they didn't even really add anything when they re-released it.

Anyways, I think it's funny that the only people in the thread who are dissatisfied with the PS3 are those without one.

[PyroMenace]

Well for me I wouldnt say I was dissatified, Im not qualified to make that judgement. But 450$ for a weekend of fun... I can get a really nice hooker for that... and maybe even some blow.

[Ghandi]

But 450$ for a weekend of fun

You really need to drop that habit of destroying things after one weekend. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Quemaqua]

I'll join Ghandi in PS3 support.  I know K-Man and Pyro are on the other end of the spectrum, but my own preferences dictate a very different situation.

My 360 has collected dust ever since I got a PS3.  Superior online framework?  I have to pay money to play multiplayer games on 360 when I can play my PS3 games online for free.  Oh, and my 360 doesn't even go online because I'd have to blow money on a fucking dongle just to get wireless access, which my PS3 has for free.  My 360 also doesn't have a hard drive.  Admittedly that's my own fault for being stupid enough to buy one of the lesser models, but if I want to upgrade to a bigger drive on the PS3, I don't have to pay far more than the storage is actually worth, I can go buy a laptop drive at a reasonable price, install it, and be done with it.  Not so much with the 360, which botched its own interface ideas so badly they had to start giving people deals on storage just so they could install the fucking updates.  Plus I don't have to worry about my PS3 exploding for no apparent reason, and while I have several 360 games that have refused to work or have had crashing issues, my PS3 hasn't so much as hiccuped.  I'd mention the free software that lets me copy movies and junk to my PS3, but there might be a 360 equivalent of that.  I really don't know since I don't have $100 to blow on the privilege.

Yes, Home sort of sucks.  And yes, there's still some work to be done with PSN, etc.  I'm totally a convert regardless.  The 360 has a bigger library, but I don't think the quality argument will remain valid for long.  Can you live without Gears of War and Fable 2?  Then get a PS3.  All things being equal (which they really aren't depending on your disgust with having to pay for shit you shouldn't have to), at least you know it won't melt.  A guy I know at work is on his fifth 360 right now.  It just came in the mail 2 weeks ago, having died right before he could start playing Fallout 3.

EDIT - Oh, and one of my consoles has an HDMI port.  The other doesn't.  Can you guess which is which?

[PyroMenace]

You really need to drop that habit of destroying things after one weekend. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

But breaking expensive electronics is soo satisfying.

But no, MGS4 wont last me much longer than a weekend is what I was eluding to.

[Ghandi]

You won't last much longer than a weekend, if you get what I'm eluding to.

Also, Que pretty much sums up what I would have said if I didn't know that he would come on here and say it. If you know what I mean.

[Cobra951]

So, uh....should I not buy a PS3?  Because I don't want to buy a 360 that's going to blow up and the Wii is ...well, I got over it fast after having one for a while (although I'll probably buy another one especially for GC games once Nintendo drops the ridiculous price).  

Home looks like total garbage.  I looked it up after reading PA on the weekend and eventually came across this:  

.  The point of the video is that Home is better than Xbox live in all sorts of way, but all it does is convince me of otherwise.  Creepy Second Life avatars?  No thanks. Awkward 'real world' simulation to replace menus?  Are you fucking kidding me?  I don't want to socialize with other retards on PS3s any more than I have to...it shouldn't be this complicated.

As for the PS3 dropping in price, I'd personally like that, but yeah Sony is in a tough spot.  While the Wii is overpriced as far as I'm concerned, a lot of people don't see it that way, and the $199 Arcade 360 is a steal.  They're going to have to drop prices, but they can't really fuck with the hardware too much.  I think their main saving grace is that they can recoup a lot of their R&D cost on licencing the Cell technology for shit like video upscaling processors in televisions and future investment in Blue Ray saturation.  

Now that the 65-nm all around Jasper is real and identifiable, the RRoD risk on new 360s should be on its way out (I hope).  You know they're going to get it right eventually.  (Sorry, Ghandi.  I disagree that software is the only thing that changes.)  So if you want one right now except for that fear, grab a magnifying glass and a flashlight and head for a store willing to accommodate your prying fingers. 

A console that sells 2.04 million units in one month, 2 years after it came out, can't possibly be overpriced.  It's worth what people will pay for it.  They're paying for it in droves.  Cost of manufacture is irrelevant.  The other side of that truth is biting Sony in the ass, hard.  When I learned of projected introductory prices for the current gen of consoles, I said (right here) that the hard line is drawn at $300.  You go above that, and you're not going to get complete market penetration.  Period--it ain't happening, regardless of how many virtues get packed into the box.  As much as we may hate it (and I do too) Microsoft is doing it the right way.  By the time you get done buying everything you need piecemeal, you end up paying as much or more than a fully ready PS3.  That arcade unit may be $200, but then you're really going to want the hard drive, and the WiFi, and maybe the headset, and so on.  All accessories are gouge-priced.  But by then, you're hooked.  It works!  It gets the sales numbers, and recoups the cost of selling the console below cost.  Then they get the userbase to make a killing on software licensing, and they get that much more financial power to upgrade the system's infrastructure.

[Ghandi]

(Sorry, Ghandi.  I disagree that software is the only thing that changes.) 

In the short term, I meant. Obviously anything is possible in the long term. Given their track record on the system, though, I hope they fixed the problem. Because I'm certainly not buying their next-gen system right away, given their current record. You can argue price all you want, but I'd pay a little extra any day of the week not to have to deal with the bullshit that a good deal of the people on these boards had to go through.

[Cobra951]

Oh yeah.  No doubt.  I had to go through that pain once too, and that Anandtech article let me id the replacement console I got back from MS as another Xenon/Zephyr 90-nm heat-warping monster.  So chances are I'm going through the same shit again at some point.

But we're talking about mass-market sales, specifically how they're not happening as we'd hope for Sony.  We may be better informed and know all this stuff.  The average consumers that make consoles viable are less informed, or don't care.

[gpw11]

2 years after it came out, can't possibly be overpriced.  It's worth what people will pay for it. 

Not that you're wrong and I see what you're saying, but from my perspective it's overpriced because it's not worth what people are willing to pay for it.  I'm not saying it's overpriced to do well, I'm saying it's over priced for the utility it would provide me when realistically a $30 used gamecube would do the trick until they have that whole "shake to jump instead of pressing A!" thing hammered out.

As for the 360, is the library really all that great for someone who already has a gaming PC?  I've been looking at Sony simply because they seem to get the games that don't hit the PC more.

[Cobra951]

It's overpriced for you.  Yeah, I do understand that.  I should have rented one with SMG and Metroid' 3, and called it a week.  I use it as a (very good) Gamecube because I have it.  I would have never bought it just for that.  Some Gamecubes do support component cables and progressive display on HDTVs, but not all.  One of those for "$30" would be a nice find.

I have . . . 24 X360 games, out of which I'm really glad I bought 14 of them.  (Just scanned through the shelf.)  Out of those, 8 absolutely need a 360.  Hope that helps.

[gpw11]

Interesting.  Realistically, I'll look at the release list for both consoles before I make a final choice.  Although, Sega's Valkyria Chronicles has at least partially sold me.

[Pugnate]

Actually, you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to find the better 360s. It quite clearly says on the back of the box what your 360's adapter voltage is. If it is 170/160, then you've got one of the newer 360s.

edit:

It has to be said, that there is very little reason to get both consoles, unless one is a piece of RROD'ing shit.

[K-man]

I'll join Ghandi in PS3 support.  I know K-Man and Pyro are on the other end of the spectrum, but my own preferences dictate a very different situation.

My 360 has collected dust ever since I got a PS3.  Superior online framework? 

Yes, 360's online framework is vastly superior to the PS3's.  There's no comparison.  Everything's centralized, running on stable servers, and everything's easy to access.  I've had issues more times than not when taking my PS3 online.

Yes, Home sort of sucks. 

No, Home is an absolute abomination.  Sony should be ashamed of the fact that it took this long to release something that terrible.  Everything about the idea was horribly conceived and implemented.

EDIT - Oh, and one of my consoles has an HDMI port.  The other doesn't.  Can you guess which is which?

I bet you if you put an identical game on my 360 with the Component inputs and my PS3 with the HDMI input, you would not be able to tell a difference at all (console differences aside, that is).  I do see your point, and it's something Microsoft should have had from the beginning.

That being said, I've preordered SF IV and a tournament stick for the PS3.  I'm still playing my PS3.  But it's not hard to see that the 360 offers the better overall experience.  Even with the hardware issues (which as Cobra said should be on their way out).

[iPPi]

X360 has HDMI ports standard to the console now.  Our older generations are the consoles that don't have an HDMI port built in  (boo hoo).  It's not a big loss.  Component is capable of outputting a 1080p signal, so you can still get the full HD experience on component if you're using your Xbox for video games (even though most games are upscaled from 720p to 1080p if you do).  Only caveat is that video is limited to 720p and 1080i over component due to HDCP regulations.  No impact unless you have the now defunct HD-DVD add on.

[Pugnate]

Yea my 360 has an HDMI, even though it is isn't the black one. It is the falcon chip one though.

[Quemaqua]

My point isn't that HDMI matters, it's just the general process that went into the PS3.  The 360 was in many respects broken, limited, and costly.  It's now getting better.  The PS3 always had a higher price point, but it was a complete machine from the start, and the only thing it's lost is backward compatibility.  That last is a downer, but as far as I'm concerned it's still far and away the better machine for all the reasons I've already stated.

I have 13 360 games and 10 PS3 games even though I've owned the PS3 for about a quarter of the time I've had my 360.  Also, all my PS3 games work, where a few of my 360 games are broken to the point of unplayability.  That isn't the console's fault, necessarily, but they're both Microsoft games, which maybe says something.  I'm also not really looking forward to anything on the 360 in particular, whereas there are several PS3 games I'm eager for.  I don't have the money any longer to buy all the big-name titles that come out (like I said, Gears 2 and Fable 2 just don't merit purchase for me at this point), and while the 360 gets a lot of mass-market stuff and you're guaranteed to get all the big names, PS3 looks like it may shape up to be the better machine for more niche games that don't have direct equivalents on other consoles.  That's a total generalization, but it's the way things are looking from my perspective.

[K-man]

My point isn't that HDMI matters, it's just the general process that went into the PS3.  The 360 was in many respects broken, limited, and costly.  It's now getting better.  The PS3 always had a higher price point, but it was a complete machine from the start, and the only thing it's lost is backward compatibility.  That last is a downer, but as far as I'm concerned it's still far and away the better machine for all the reasons I've already stated.

Technically it's a vastly superior machine.  Sony worked very hard to attempt to make it as futureproof as possible.  However, when your game library consists of maybe 8 exclusives worth playing (3-4 of those really worth owning) you start to run into some problems.  Concessions were made to lower the 360 price to get it to market.  Sony took the other tactic and left these features in at a premium.  Ultimately people are going to go where the games are.  The Xbox and Gamecube were both superior to the PS2, yet the PS2 sold in droves because the games were there.

I have 13 360 games and 10 PS3 games even though I've owned the PS3 for about a quarter of the time I've had my 360.  Also, all my PS3 games work, where a few of my 360 games are broken to the point of unplayability.  That isn't the console's fault, necessarily, but they're both Microsoft games, which maybe says something.  I'm also not really looking forward to anything on the 360 in particular, whereas there are several PS3 games I'm eager for.  I don't have the money any longer to buy all the big-name titles that come out (like I said, Gears 2 and Fable 2 just don't merit purchase for me at this point), and while the 360 gets a lot of mass-market stuff and you're guaranteed to get all the big names, PS3 looks like it may shape up to be the better machine for more niche games that don't have direct equivalents on other consoles.  That's a total generalization, but it's the way things are looking from my perspective.

I'm curious to know what 360 games are broken for you.  Because I've never had a problem with any of mine.  And your preference is your preference, and I'm certainly not going to argue that.  However, you must realize that you are in the minority.

I do have to agree with you on the niche games on PS3.  Games like Folklore are beautiful and unique, and the store has offerings like Everyday Shooter and Pixel Junk Eden.  I'd even argue that while the XBLA has a greater quantity of games, the ones of PS3 are of greater quality (and adventurous).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the PS3 is a terrible system at all.  I merely think it has been horribly misused and mismanaged by Sony.  They're having an identity crisis with their console.  Last night on Monday Night Football, they aired a commercial that called it a "movie downloading machine".  not a video game system, a blu ray player, but a movie downloading machine.  The 360's emphasis and focus has always been games first, and that's ultimately why I think it's succeeding.