Topic: 4 trillion...

[Pugnate]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/27/news/bigger.bailout.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009012704

[Cobra951]

You know, once it gets to that kind of figure, why not bail out the people?  You know, "We, the People" featured in the bedrock of our principles and jurisprudence?

There are 300 million people in this country.  Let's say that 100 million are adult American citizens that make less than $75,000 a year.  I'm pulling that number out of the air, just to move past this.  It can always be adjusted later.

4 trillion / 100 million = 40,000.  So the most needy one third of the citizens of this country can receive a $40,000 check from the government, if they decide to spend $4 trillion on economic stimulus.  If you double the recipients to 200 million, each can still get a hefty $20,000 check.

[Quemaqua]

Obama™: For Those Who Demand Inexperience In Their Douchebag

[Ghandi]

All of these cost estimates are bullshit. I don't believe any of them. And, at the same time, I feel sorry for future generations who have had no part of this and yet have to pay for it all. It's all so fucking pathetic that we have brought ourselves to this.

[Cobra951]

I agree completely.  My point is that if they're going to spend that ludicrous amount of money regardless of common sense, why give it to the bastards who enriched themselves and sent the rest of us to skid row?  Give it directly to the people who lack the money to participate in the economy.  Once they have it, they can decide how to spend it.  And no matter how they do that, they're going to be benefiting the consumer-driven American economy.  You know very little of that money would end up in a mattress somewhere.  Even if it's saved in a bank, it's good for economy via the banking system.

Here's the most important point:  The current projections are that the stimulus spending under consideration won't have *any* effect until well into 2010.  You give people a few tens of thousands apiece, I guarantee you an immediate effect.

[Ghandi]

The problem is that the traditional forces that dictate monetary policy are affecting the bailout as well - i.e. lobbyists and interest groups. They didn't go away with the financial meltdown - they hope to benefit from it. And the results are already evident. There has been a great deal of press over the past month or so about how the initial bailout money was mishandled. It's absolutely astonishing to me how the Bush Administration and Congress could have dictated so little oversight to such a large amount of money. Bush was truly incompetent - my view that he will go down as the worst president in history is obviously jaded by my point in time, but nonetheless I believe it true.

But in any case, the public continues to go along with it, assuming that it will benefit them. And that's what scares me. We shouldn't have faith in our politics until it produces results. I loved Obama in the primaries, but only because he was the most real. I voted for him. I awaited his inauguration. But I have never given him a blank check to do as he wishes.

He may be inspirational, he may be smart, but he is still our leader and we need to question what he does.

[Quemaqua]

Castrobama doesn't have my support.  He's done some creepy shit already.  However, this problem would exist every bit as much whether he was president or not, and I think all of us are in complete agreement about the state of things.  And I'm pretty sure we can all agree that any idiot knows that throwing money at this stuff won't solve anything.  This money is still being mishandled and nobody is doing a damn thing to stop it.  I'm still of a mind that someone (Thain seems likely enough) needs to swing from a tree before that's going to change.

[Ghandi]

Well, to clarify, I do have faith in him. I think that he is smart enough and prepared enough to do the job. I'm just saying that our faith shouldn't be blind. We still need to question his actions and hold him responsible for what he does, even though we have done neither of those things during Bush's term.

But I do agree that money alone won't solve the problem. We need to act. As a senior in college who has talked to many in my situation, we are *worried*. I hope that we can act accordingly.

[Pugnate]

I think you guys are missing one important point. If these fuckers don't get the bailout money, how the fuck is it that, you expect them to decorate their offices and take billions in bonuses.... or fly to further meetings with congress, in private jets???

[Ghandi]

I think you guys are missing one important point. If these fuckers don't get the bailout money, how the fuck is it that, you expect them to decorate their offices and take billions in bonuses.... or fly to further meetings with congress, in private jets???

I take comfort in knowing that Americans are the best at that, whatever that is. This means that foreigners have been emulating us for decades. Whatever we have fucked up with, foreign entities are hard at work trying to correct. They follow us. We don't lose - everyone loses. Evidence of which being the global economic decline.

[Quemaqua]

I'm praying that you're making a joke.

[Ghandi]

Sometimes I feel like I'm being too subtle...

[Quemaqua]

I'm not drunk.





 ... what?

[Ghandi]

I'm so confused.

Is this supposed to be social commentary? I'm not sure about the end result here.

[Cobra951]

I'm a bit confused myself and I am completely sober.  Ice is accumulating like crazy out there and I fear a long power outage, with outside temps in the low 20s.

[Quemaqua]

[Ghandi]

Haha....you win. I'm sorry I ever doubted you.

[gpw11]

You know, once it gets to that kind of figure, why not bail out the people?  You know, "We, the People" featured in the bedrock of our principles and jurisprudence?

There are 300 million people in this country.  Let's say that 100 million are adult American citizens that make less than $75,000 a year.  I'm pulling that number out of the air, just to move past this.  It can always be adjusted later.

4 trillion / 100 million = 40,000.  So the most needy one third of the citizens of this country can receive a $40,000 check from the government, if they decide to spend $4 trillion on economic stimulus.  If you double the recipients to 200 million, each can still get a hefty $20,000 check.

The traditional argument against this kind of injection is that it injects cash into the wrong places.  Give people "free money" and they spend it on stupid shit.  Videogames, HDTVs, Candy.  While that does stimulate the economy, it only really boosts the below living wage paying service industries, and a lot of the money ends up getting shipped out to oh...Japanese multi-nationals. At least part of this was the problem that lead to this.

Once you start talking about $4 trillion though, that theory goes out the window (it usually gets talked about referring to small time tax rebates and shit like that).  Going by your math that's something that could have a real effect, even if it just gets a lot of people out of some debt.  Realistically, it's probably a better bet, you'd all just have to cross your fingers that people got smart and Sony and Acura don't just have really really good months all of a sudden.