Topic: IGN weighs in on 3D realms.

[Pugnate]

http://c.pcmovies.ign.com/pc/audio/article/982/982137/commandprompt_ep46.mp3

[scottws]

Care to comment?  I'm at work and can't really listen to a podcast or whatever this is.

[Pugnate]

I am just in the middle of it. Basically, none of the guys sympathize with 3D realms -- and that's about it really. I am sorta in the same boat as well, so I found myself nodding a lot... well not actually physically nodding... but in my head or something.

[Quemaqua]

I think that's childish.  So what if they did a bad management job?  So what if they acted a bit stupid and didn't make the right decisions?  That's no reason to wish them ill.  It's not like they were giving the finger to their fans or something.  I did hang out from time to time on the 3DR boards, and what I saw of those guys was always pretty positive.  They were, if nothing else, very good when it came to interacting with their community.

[MysterD]

After 13 years or more, I just want to see DNF to reach fruition and the masses that have been waiting and wanting to have Duke kick some more alien ass like only he can.

To me, Duke comes from an era where a lot of the games were very funny. Look at Shadow Warrior, Fallout and many of the old school LucasArts adventures, for example. We need more of that kind of fun and humor in gaming, these days and age.

A lot of games these days, they seem to lack the humor...

[W7RE]

I've been listening to the Gamespot podcast, and a few times the topic of humor in gaming has come up. Their take was that these days publishers think humor is only an acceptable selling point if that is the primary purpose of the game. Sure you can throw in a few funny lines here and there, but don't advertise that the game is funny or it won't sell.

I think usually when the topic comes up, it's because they're talking about a comedy game that didn't do well, and they think this is why.

[Xessive]

Just listened to the IGN podcast. A lot of valid points. They also brought up Daikatana. Damn Daikatana.

[MysterD]

I've been listening to the Gamespot podcast, and a few times the topic of humor in gaming has come up. Their take was that these days publishers think humor is only an acceptable selling point if that is the primary purpose of the game. Sure you can throw in a few funny lines here and there, but don't advertise that the game is funny or it won't sell.

Are are publishers afraid that a funny game can't be taken as a serious-selling game?

[Xessive]

Are are publishers afraid that a funny game can't be taken as a serious-selling game?

I think they just anticipate that a "funny" game is perceived as a half-assed attempt at game development. A game no one would take seriously or pay serious cash for. It's a negative stereotype that the publishers take to heart.

Comedy, like horror and action, has a place. The sooner they realize that the sooner we'll see more radical attempts at humour in genres other than point & click adventures.

Personally, I'm still clinging to the hope of a new NOLF game.

[MysterD]

Voodoo Extreme is brainstorming here.

They have their list of EIGHT dev's/publishers who they think might pick-up DNF...

[Quemaqua]

Ugh.  The only ones I'd like to see get it on that list would be Croteam or Raven.  Seriously, that's like... it.

[MysterD]

Ugh.  The only ones I'd like to see get it on that list would be Croteam or Raven.  Seriously, that's like... it.

Do you think Human Head could pull it off?

EDIT:
I mean, they did make Prey and all -- which was originally a 3DR game.

[Quemaqua]

Were they on the list?  I didn't think I saw them.  But yeah, I'd say they cold pull it off.  I thought Prey was underrated.  Not revolutionary, but still a damn good time.

[MysterD]

Were they on the list? 

No, they weren't -- which I find kind of odd, since they did Prey.

But yeah, I'd say they cold pull it off.  I thought Prey was underrated.  Not revolutionary, but still a damn good time.

I bet they could pull off the game design and level design no problem for Duke, given how good Prey's was. Yeah, I agree with you -- Prey was underrated.

I'd love to see a Prey 2 -- especially since it's left open, after the credits rolled and all...

Though, I don't recall Prey being too funny, though.
And of course, humor is one element necessary in Duke.
Hmmm...any clue if Human Head has done anything funny before?

[Quemaqua]

Actually, there were a number of funny moments in Prey.  Not a ton, but I'm sure they could manage.  It's not like Duke's humor was ever terribly cerebral anyway.

[K-man]

Duke's humor wouldn't fly today. 

[Quemaqua]

It would have to take something of a different tone, but I don't think they'd have to stray too far to make it work.  It always made fun of itself, it would just have to do that even more so now.

[MysterD]

Besides self-parody, DN3D did often parody and quote modern pop culture and media, so they'd need to do some of that in DNF...

[idolminds]

Take Two is suing 3D Realms over failure to complete DNF. linky

[Pugnate]

Wow.

[angrykeebler]

I hope it never gets finished. Yeah, I said it. It can stand as a testament to the failure of 3D Realms and their empty promises.

[Xessive]

Holy.. Isn't closing down the studio punishment enough?

[Pugnate]

I think they were taking millions upon millions and doing so for a period of 12 years.

And when in 2003 after 5 years of expensive development, Take Two said they hoped the game would be ready in a couple of years (innocuous comment), George Broussard went on the internets and told him to stfu.

So yea, I am with Keebler. There are going to be consequences to your actions.

[Xessive]

I think they were taking millions upon millions and doing so for a period of 12 years.

And when in 2003 after 5 years of expensive development, Take Two said they hoped the game would be ready in a couple of years (innocuous comment), George Broussard went on the internets and told him to stfu.

So yea, I am with Keebler. There are going to be consequences to your actions.

Yeah, I understand. Still feels like literally beating a dead horse though.

[Quemaqua]

Ultimately Take Two contributed very little, in the grand scheme of things.

[Jedi]

Jesus people any company that can't produce a game in the time the DNF was announced deserved the shit kicked out of it. Even if it falls to one person then that person should have been removed and replaced. In the pod cast they said it right – it became a running joke – and that reflects on the company. Talk it up all you want Duke 3D was awesome but fun them they deserve to go under and be buried. Fuck they should have canceled this YEARS ago.

[Pugnate]

Yeah, I understand. Still feels like literally beating a dead horse though.

Well they aren't trying to pwn them or something. They just would like to get what they paid for, or their money back.

[Xessive]

Well they aren't trying to pwn them or something. They just would like to get what they paid for, or their money back.

Yeah, that's fair.

I was actually hoping the Duke Nukem IP would be bought by someone else and they'd develop something new, intentionally aborting the "Duke Nukem Forever" title.

[MysterD]

I bet in the end, Take Two will wind up with the Duke IP -- and we'll finally see a game titled DNF; whether they restart the project or get someone to finish whatever 3DR did (if there even was much of anything or if there's plenty there already). In the end, Take-Two getting that Duke IP would be priceless b/c Duke Nukem is a IP that's extremely well known for better (see the awesome DN3D) or worse (3DR taking forever with working on DNF) -- and would likely generate bucket-loads of money. Ultimately, I think people want more Duke -- so, in the end, I just see Take Two winding up w/ Duke IP; especially if 3DR is flat-broke and since their doors are closed.

Take-Two has published a Croteam game before -- Serious Sam 2. They could always get them to work on Duke.

Other shooter companies like many of the ex-Irrational guys -- 2K Marin and 2K Boston -- might be a good bet b/c those guys made some shooters in the past.

Rockstar might be a very good bet for a Duke game, as well.

I just hope in the end, we the gamers benefit from whatever occurs w/ Duke. I'd love to see what 3DR has done, so far -- especially if it's half-way done or completely done. And I'd also love to see a company just finish the game off.

Bring me Duke, dammit!

[W7RE]

My first thoughts were that it won't be the same if someone other than 3DRealms finishes DNF. But really, people know what Duke is all about, and just from the leaks people know what sort of stuff was gonna be in the game. Any really good developer could finish DNF and it could be a great game. It wouldn't be the exact same game 3DR would have made, but it could still be damn good, maybe even better (especially considering it would actually be out).

I really can't feel bad for the higher ups at 3DR if they lose the IP. They screwed around for 12 years, and they pissed in the publisher's face. I recently read an old article on IGN about the troubles Valve went through making Half-Life 2, and how the whole team was discouraged when development hit the 3 year mark (they assumed 3 years, since they were designing a new engine) and they weren't close to completion. I get the feeling the 3DR guys didn't give a shit, it would be done "when it's done".

[idolminds]

More

From what I've read, Take Two didn't fund anything. T2 bought out Gathering of Developers, which at the time had the publishing rights to DNF as well as other games. The GoD publishing rights passed to T2. None of that money went to 3DR, and they were self funding the game anyway. So its hard to say how much 3DR "owes" T2. They bought out a bunch of publishing rights, so how much of that accounts for the DNF rights?

[W7RE]

One of the rumors I've heard since the closure of 3DR is that 3DR showed the game to TT and were denied further funding. So now it's possible that 3DR's goal is to make sure TT doesn't get the game out in some fashion, since they had the opportunity to save 3DR and passed on it, hurting the game and the employees of 3DR. Supposedly there's been bad blood between George Broussard and one (or more) of the higher ups at Take Two for a few years now, and this could just be the elevation of that feud to the next level.

Of course we may never know the whole truth. I'd love to read an in depht interview with George Broussard down the line sometime (like the one I mentioned about Valve), just to hear what all really happened, and why the closing of 3DR was so sudden. The day the news broke, some employees of 3DR seemed like they weren't even sure what was going on. When they did confirm it, they still seemed shocked, and wouldn't give any info. they never even confirmed that it was due to lack of money (that I recall).

[Quemaqua]

I think the reason I never cared about the timeframe is because 3DR as a company did have other pursuits scattered about, it wasn't like the entire company was behind only this one game and nothing more, and... it's just Duke.  While we'd all love to see DNF, we simultaneously sort of don't care.  It's something you might look forward to but can be completely patient about because it just isn't all that important.  So it never bugged me that they were taking forever, because it didn't seem to matter to anybody anyway.  So why not take forever if that's what they wanted to do?

None of us really know the whole story, but I still think it sucks.  They were nice folks from what I could tell, George Broussard always seemed like a cool guy even if he flew in the face of convention in odd ways at times, and I think it's stupid to get mad at them for not producing a game most of you didn't give a shit about in the first place.  I could see people being pissed at Half-life 3 not getting out 6 years after production had started, but DNF?  Besides that, nobody really and truly knows all the skinny on the whole thing, like exactly how much manpower was dedicated to the project at any given time, other staff issues, whether or not some of the tech issues were truly legitimate and not purely nitpicky, etc.

[W7RE]

I think the big thing for me is that the whole story has been as tight-lipped as the development of DNF. There was never even a steatement given by George Broussard or any of the other higher ups, just the web designer posting in a thread saying, "yes, it's real." Finally, days after the fact, a news update was added to 3drealms.com that just says, "Goodbye", with a pic of all the employees.

ANY info beyond that is speculation and rumours. Did they run out of money? What's being done witht he DNF IP? Did one of the employees go on a shooting spree and the web guy only had time to post "Goodbye" on the main page?

[MysterD]

More info

There were rumors a while ago that 3DR was offered $30 million from Take Two so they could buy the Duke IP, not too long before 3DR was on the verge of shutting down.

Scott Miller said "Not. Even. Close."
So, if *that* offer was on the table, they would've took that "without hesitation," Miller added.