Topic: Left 4 Dead 2 announced

[idolminds]

Fuck Valve.

June 1, 2009 - Valve, creators of best-selling game franchises (such as Half-Life and Counter-Strike) and leading technologies (such as Steam and Source), today announced Left 4 Dead 2 (L4D2), the sequel to the best-selling and critically-acclaimed co-operative multiplayer thriller.

Coming exclusively to Xbox 360 and PC, L4D2 promises to set a new benchmark for co-operative action games and become one of 2009's marquee titles.

"A large part of how Left 4 Dead became 2008's top-selling new IP on Xbox 360 and the PC was the custom-tailored gameplay made possible by the AI Director," said Gabe Newell, president and co-founder of Valve. "With the knowledge gained from creating the original, new technology, and a passionate team, L4D2 will set a new benchmark for cooperative action games."

Set for release on November 17, the title adds melee combat to enable deeper co-operative gameplay, with items such as a chainsaw, frying pan, axe, baseball bat, and more.

Introducing the AI Director 2.0, L4D's dynamic gameplay is taken to the next level by giving the Director the ability to procedurally change weather effects, world objects, and pathways in addition to tailoring the enemy population, effects, and sounds to match the players' performance. The result is a unique game session custom fitted to provide a satisfying and uniquely challenging experience each time the game is played.

Featuring new Survivors, boss zombies, weapons, and items, Left 4 Dead 2 offers a much larger game than the original with more co-operative campaigns, more Versus campaigns, and maps for Survival mode available at launch.

Supported by a $10+ million marketing campaign, Left 4 Dead has sold over 2.5 million retail copies since it was released in November of 2008. Left 4 Dead 2 is targeted for release on Xbox 360 and the PC on November 17, 2009, and will be launched worldwide with a multi-million dollar marketing campaign across TV, Outdoor, and Online.

"Left 4 Dead was backed by our most aggressive advertising campaign to date, and resulted in a top 5 showing on two platforms during holiday 2008," said Doug Lombardi, VP of marketing at Valve. "Left 4 Dead 2 is a larger game and will be supported with even more consumer and retail advertising programs than the original."

Left 4 Dead 2 will be featured as the cover story on PC Gamer and Official Xbox Magazines this month. For more information, please visit www.l4d.com

[Pugnate]

uhhhh... WTF?

Seriously... WTF? I am not angry as much as I am totally taken by surprise.

At first I thought this was a joke.

Have they anywhere near explored the full potential of the first game? This almost seems like an excuse to charge for any further development of L4D.

And what justifies a L4D2 label? The fact that they sold 2.5 million copies in less than a year?

This is absolutely stupid. It hasn't been a year... I mean, why not just work on a full blown expansion?

Good god, they should be releasing Episode 3 and perhaps even new tech... this just takes me by surprise.

[idolminds]

It just feels like everything they've added should be something to add to the original. They better not try charge $50 again. If they do expansion pack pricing, it would be easier to swallow. But fuck, L4D is still pretty light on content.

Also, if they charge $50 I wonder if people will wait knowing they will do one of those Steam weekend deals in like 2 months like they did for L4D.

[Pugnate]

OK just look at some of the fan reactions here:

http://kotaku.com/5274389/left-4-dead-2-features-melee-deeper-coop

I can't believe there is so little outrage. And look at how many people claim to be "excited".

By what?

Some dude made a reasonable point or two, and all he got was stuff like: Wow, this game sounds amazing and all you can do is bitch.

How does this sound amazing? How?

Idol, you are right. If they charge $20, then I wouldn't mind coughing it up. But anything beyond that would be highway robbery.

edit:

OK I went to the second page of those comments, and there is tons of outrage.

edit:

Official forums have lots of pissed fans:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=fc62ffc51f58aefb5b6ab7e08b2806ce&f=611

[MysterD]

Call me when this sucker gets cheap, if there ain't much content there and all.

[Pugnate]

Well you can join the boycott:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott?action=join

It is free.

[MysterD]

I had a blast with the original L4D and spent lots and lots of hours with it. It seems really too soon for a sequel -- especially if it is going to stand-alone; especially if the original game's content can't be imported into L4D2.

It would be cool if say b/c you own L4D1, the content can be accessed within L4D2 and all.

[idolminds]

According to IGN (I think, not sure where the info came from), Valve might include the L4D maps in L4D2. Which just makes the whole situation even worse.

[MysterD]

According to IGN (I think, not sure where the info came from), Valve might include the L4D maps in L4D2. Which just makes the whole situation even worse.

So, why'd people purchase L4D1 then?
Especially those who bought it at full price?

Yeah, good thing I spent only $10 for it! :oP

Are they gonna include the original L4D1 characters, too?

[Pugnate]

RSG has a little preview:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/01/left-4-dead-2-exclusive-rps-preview/#more-12370

The daylight bits look cool.

Valve says they will continue to support L4D1 with DLC etc, but aren't they going to be dividing the community?

They need to sell this at $20 for owners of the first.

[MysterD]

RSG has a little preview:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/01/left-4-dead-2-exclusive-rps-preview/#more-12370

The daylight bits look cool.

Valve says they will continue to support L4D1 with DLC etc, but aren't they going to be dividing the community?

I agree w/ this statement.

B/c really, it sounds like L4D2 is gonna be an even more so improved engine, from the way it sounds -- improved AI Director, more melee, etc etc. Hopefully, some improved netcode, too.

If they do put all the L4D1 maps on L4D2, if you missed L4D1, then why freaking buy it?
It'll be even worse if say they carry all the L4D1 characters OVER into L4D2, ALSO.

If they don't put L4D1's maps on L4D2, then you got a whole community split playing both L4D1 and 2 -- switching b/t basically what maps to play.

It'll be even funnier if say L4D2's maps can be used within L4D1...hehe.
Or hell, if you can import all the L4D2 characters into L4D1...that's if there's new characters and all.

Valve really can't win here, either way, I don't think.

I really think Valve should've just did a L4D2 Expansion, myself -- same characters, lots of new maps.
Everybody would be jumping for joy.

They need to sell this at $20 for owners of the first.

Sounds a lil' more fair to me.

[idolminds]

Are you kidding? They'll release the "Green Box" that has L4D2 packaged with L4D, and people that already own the original can gift it to friends. I still have extra copies of HL2 and EP1 that no one wants.

[Xessive]

This is starting to look like a big "Fuck You" from Valve.

L4D2 should just be a massive update for L4D1. Kinda like UT3 v2.0. Otherwise Valve can suck it if they think they can just screw an entire league gamers.

As fun as L4D is, I'm not wasting any more money on Valve until HL-EP3 comes around.

[MysterD]

Are you kidding? They'll release the "Green Box" that has L4D2 packaged with L4D, and people that already own the original can gift it to friends.

LOL, yeah, probably.

I still have extra copies of HL2 and EP1 that no one wants.

Same here...
Since it most likelihood, most people already own these goddamn games!

[MysterD]

Shacknews got the L4D2 trailer.
Looks like it's gonna take place in Louisiana.
And there's FOUR new characters here.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, I'm so not buying it.  Fuck Valve.  After this, I am officially done with every product they ever produce from here on out.

[MysterD]

Yeah, I'm so not buying it.  Fuck Valve.  After this, I am officially done with every product they ever produce from here on out.

Just like L4D, I'll buy L4D2 when I can get it cheaper -- like I buy most of my games.

I'm still wondering when we're gonna hear stuff about HL2: Ep 3.
C'mon, Valve...

[idolminds]

Rock Paper Shotgun has a podcast interview with some Valve dude. I haven't listened, but someone wrote notes while listening:

    * L4D2 started production immediately after the first was released
    * new mutations, southern zombies, New Orleans locale
    * takes place shortly after events of L4D
    * "Charger" special infected, half tank/regular zombie. Runs at survivors, can grab and smash them about
    * more gruesome zombies/deaths, destroyable limbs
    * melee weapons like frying pan, axe, baseball bat have different effects
    * "uncommmon" common infected: hazmat zombies immune to fire, random mutations throughout
    * daytime maps, different types of zombies at night/day
    * witch can wander around in random paths, still scary strong
    * L4D will still be updated (until or after L4D2 I'm not sure)
    * custom maps for L4D will work with L4D2 instantly
    * lots of new weapons, more than just five
    * team wanted to add more than just new maps, reasoning for sequel
    * SDK and matchmaking will be released after E3
    * wanted a clean slate to work with L4D2, old characters won't return. it's about the WORLD, not the PEOPLE

Looks like the name "Left 4 Dead" was actually referencing the game itself. Released it, and started work on the "sequel"...which is SO DIFFERENT that maps made for the first game will work in the second. They just couldn't POSSIBLY update the original game.

[Xessive]

Wow. Going back to your original post, Idol: Fuck Valve.

I can already see all the fanboys and other miscellanious idiots getting overexcited about it.

As much as I love coop gameplay I will not be buying this or Valve's B.S.

[MysterD]

Rock Paper Shotgun has a podcast interview with some Valve dude. I haven't listened, but someone wrote notes while listening:

    * L4D2 started production immediately after the first was released
    * new mutations, southern zombies, New Orleans locale
    * takes place shortly after events of L4D
    * "Charger" special infected, half tank/regular zombie. Runs at survivors, can grab and smash them about
    * more gruesome zombies/deaths, destroyable limbs
    * melee weapons like frying pan, axe, baseball bat have different effects
    * "uncommmon" common infected: hazmat zombies immune to fire, random mutations throughout
    * daytime maps, different types of zombies at night/day
    * witch can wander around in random paths, still scary strong
    * L4D will still be updated (until or after L4D2 I'm not sure)
    * custom maps for L4D will work with L4D2 instantly
    * lots of new weapons, more than just five
    * team wanted to add more than just new maps, reasoning for sequel
    * SDK and matchmaking will be released after E3
    * wanted a clean slate to work with L4D2, old characters won't return. it's about the WORLD, not the PEOPLE

Looks like the name "Left 4 Dead" was actually referencing the game itself. Released it, and started work on the "sequel"...which is SO DIFFERENT that maps made for the first game will work in the second. They just couldn't POSSIBLY update the original game.

Is it me or does this sounds more like an EXPANSION PACK than a full-fledged game?

[Pugnate]

The one good thing to come out of this was the realization that Valve's forums are actually pretty cool. People are going beserk on the L4D2 forums, and the mods are pretty cool. A lot of people constantly spam with joke threads about Valve's greedy intentions etc, and everyone has a good laugh, with threads getting locked but no one really banned or anything.

[idolminds]

Ive heard some horror stories about the Steam forums. I wouldn't trust them, heh.

[Pugnate]

Oh well. Perhaps they are overwhelmed.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, I don't trust any of those fuckers.  Ban-happy, and don't get me started on people getting their entire Steam libraries locked, etc.

[Pugnate]

http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/left_4_dead/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html

Valve details post Left 4 Dead launch plans
By Wesley Yin-Poole - 10/09/2008 - 2:39pm GMT

Intends to release new maps, characters, weapons and achievements to keep the community growing.
Left 4 Dead screenshot

Valve intends to support hotly anticipated zombie survival shooter Left 4 Dead post-release with new characters, new maps, new achievements and new weapons in order to grow the community, Gabe Newell has revealed.

Speaking to VideoGamer.com at Leipzig Games Convention, the Valve co-founder and managing director said the developer intended to follow a similar downloadable content policy as it has with Team Fortress 2.

Left 4 Dead, set for release on PC and Xbox 360 on November 21 in Europe, is primarily a four-player cooperative game that sees a group of Survivors battle through four 'Movies' and against 28 Days Later-style zombies called The Infected.

Newell said that Valve's support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.

He said: "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.

"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."

It is obvious what happened here, coupled with the news from R.P.S. that "L4D2" was instantly in development after L4D1.

At some point this went from being DLC to paid content.

[Xessive]

It's pretty amazing how fast Valve got on to developing L4D2 yet how long it takes them to do anything with Half-Life.

I agree with Pug. It really looks like this was intended as DLC for L4D but somehow turned into a "new" thing altogether, probably fueled from the fiasco over the Survival pack. The fanboys' reaction to the Survival pack possibly costing money validated the possibility of Valve charging for it and anything else. I wouldn't be shocked if Valve will eventually charge for updates to Team Fortress 2.

I already paid full price for L4D; three times since I bought two more copies, one for my brother and one for my cousin. It was a time of celebration. I got caught in all the excitement. I'm not paying any more. Valve can floss their greedy teeth with my ass hairs before I waste another penny on them.

[Pugnate]

Xessive, L4D2 was immediately in production after L4D1, which makes me absolutely certain that the game was initially meant as DLC, until they realized a) it was big enough for them to make money off of and b) They realized they wouldn't make many more sales than the 2.5 mil. they already made.

[gpw11]

What the fuck?!  Those motherfuckers!  I paid goddamn full price.

[Ghandi]

I'd be pissed if I bought L4D..but I didn't, so it's kinda funny. 

[Xessive]

I'd be pissed if I bought L4D..but I didn't, so it's kinda funny. 

Hehe well at least you know how most of us feel.

Pug, I think you're right on the money.

I told my brother that it looks like L4D2 might be coming later this year and he was overjoyed. He said he was really bored of L4D as it is and was hoping the new one would be more exciting. "I've been playing it all year and there's nothing new..." he claimed, then I explained to him that the game hasn't even been released for a year, it's just over 7 months since it was released and we only got it in mid-Feburary, which means we've only played it for just under 4 months. He quickly changed his stance. In retrospect I realize that I was discussing this with a freeloading gym-jock who has no concept of value unless we're talking about protein shakes or gym memberships.

[MysterD]

It's pretty amazing how fast Valve got on to developing L4D2 yet how long it takes them to do anything with Half-Life.

That's b/c Half-Life is *their* baby and brainchild -- they will always give the utmost over-ridiculous care to.

Remember, Valve bought out Turtle Rock and all. I'm sure, especially since L4D isn't super-duper story-focused with in-depth characters and whatnot, it'd be pretty easy for them to pump out new content to it and not worry too much about story and character -- especially w/ the whole AI Director thing.

I agree with Pug. It really looks like this was intended as DLC for L4D but somehow turned into a "new" thing altogether, probably fueled from the fiasco over the Survival pack. The fanboys' reaction to the Survival pack possibly costing money validated the possibility of Valve charging for it and anything else. I wouldn't be shocked if Valve will eventually charge for updates to Team Fortress 2.

I'd have no problem w/ L4D2 being sold at an expansion pack price upon release or DLC. B/c really, that is what this "so-called sequel" looks like to me.

I mean, Crytek realized when they made the bundle for Crysis: Warhead/Crysis Wars, that Warhead wasn't super long for a new game -- 4-6 hours, for most. And they noticed, Wars had ALL of the old Crysis maps intact with it -- and then a handful of new maps and a few new MP modes. They looked at this all and realized they had more like a stand-alone expansion pack here, even if they made it stand-alone. Nobody bitched b/c that game was stand-alone game was priced properly.

I already paid full price for L4D; three times since I bought two more copies, one for my brother and one for my cousin. It was a time of celebration. I got caught in all the excitement. I'm not paying any more. Valve can floss their greedy teeth with my ass hairs before I waste another penny on them.

Yeah, call me when L4D2 is expansion pack price or less.

[idolminds]

Ugh.

"This one will be the platform we build on and will give you all kinds of updates. You know, like the updates we promised for the first one. Really this time. No foolin'. Also, thanks for buying our beta for $50."

[MysterD]

I'll believe it when we see it.

Valve could at least pull a Stardock and give all owners of L4D1 game a 50% off coupon towards...something.

[Quemaqua]

Put simply, Valve wasn't entirely satisfied with the original game.

Maybe because it was a broken pile of shit that barely functioned on the server end?  And you didn't even finish the motherfucking thing, dangling content over us like a mouse toy over a cat, never actually providing anything of substance AT ALL?  You fucking morons.  Shove all that money right up your fucking asses until you choke on it.

[MysterD]

If Valve wasn't satisfied w/ the original game, then why didn't they patch the issues out of it? You know, update the server code, AI Director, and all that stuff for everyone?

Maybe even offer MORE FREE DLC?
Maybe over some outstanding pay-to-buy DLC?

You know, even one of the guys I know at work who is a BIG Valve fan and BIG Steam fan is NOT impressed w/ L4D2 at all. Yeah, that's saying a freaking lot, to hear this from him of all people.

[Quemaqua]

That's letting them off way too easy.  No pay to buy DLC.  They need to finish a goddamn complete game, and provide the free fucking content they all but promised everyone in the first place.  I didn't even lose any money on this and it's infuriating.

[MysterD]

That's letting them off way too easy.  No pay to buy DLC.  They need to finish a goddamn complete game, and provide the free fucking content they all but promised everyone in the first place.  I didn't even lose any money on this and it's infuriating.

I didn't lose money on it by any means, either. I lost nothing. My dad bought it for $10 for me as a belated present! LMAO!

Anyways, yeah -- it's very aggravating to hear Valve promise what they're gonna this and that ... and then do nothing about it.

I guess from now on, when I look at a game, I'll just have to think of the worst case scenario -- what's actually in the gamebox and whatever is the latest notes in the most current patch is, that's what you're gonna get.

So, yeah -- I guess when L4D2 drops, I should expect....whatever's in the damn box and their latest patch (if there is one) -- and just call it a day. So, I guess that means I can wait for L4D2 to drop in price majorly, if they wanna sell it as a full-fledged sequel...

[angrykeebler]

Ehh im gonna wind up buying it. meh.

[Pugnate]

Ugh.

"This one will be the platform we build on and will give you all kinds of updates. You know, like the updates we promised for the first one. Really this time. No foolin'. Also, thanks for buying our beta for $50."

I just find it amusing how blatant all of this is.

[idolminds]

It would be more amusing if people weren't falling for it and defending this.

MORE LIES!

Shack:  What price-point should we expect?

Doug Lombardi: This is a full sequel.

Shack: So full price?

Doug Lombardi: Yeah. At the end of the day, this is going to be a bigger game than Left 4 Dead. It's five campaigns versus four, all five are playable in Versus mode, Survival mode out of the box, the new multiplayer game mode. Plus over 20 new weapons and items. It's a full sequel.

At least there still seems to be a lot of people upset by this whole mess.

I do want to touch on people saying "You just have higher expectations that Valve has to live up to. If this was any other company you'd be thrilled." Uh, no. If this was a singleplayer only game (that had more than 4 short maps) then yes, I'd be thrilled to have a sequel. But this is multiplayer. As soon as you put out the sequel you're going to effectively kill the community for the original game, especially when its only a year later. Its just stupid.