Topic: Smartphone Megathread. It's the shit.

[Pugnate]

The phone hardware market is moving very quickly these days, but they're still a very big investment.  If there's a phone out there that you want and having updates available is an important feature to you, it might be best to wait until it's out for a few months and see what the environment is like as far as official or user provided updates. The shitty thing with that is that by that time there's probably two more phones around the corner that interest you.

I agree with all of that.

What about Google's Nexus phone? I am sure that updates with the patches?

The Samsung Galaxy looks really powerful with the great new Super AMOLED screen, but will be released with the 2.1 OS, and I think 2.3 is already out, and Google looks to be releasing an update per month. Really, like a PC, you should be able to upgrade every time.

I have an Innov8, which while good, lacks any support.

That's one  areas where Samsung really need to work. They need to support their damn products! There website is crap for downloading apps etc.

It is definitely one area where Sony does shine more.

[gpw11]

Don't get me started on Samsung and the Windows Mobile 6.5 update.  For a lot of these companies, they won't do it because they see a new operating system on a phone as a reason to buy one I guess.  If you can keep on getting updates for 3-4 years, the hardware itself probably won't convince you to switch. 

But Google isn't releasing updates nearly that fast.  They do release a few a year, but that's about it (with some exceptions). 1.5 and 1.6 came out in 2009, and it skipped to 2.0 which also came out in 2009.  I don't know where 2.1 falls in there, but I don't think it was a major update in any way at all.  Most things you read consider 2.0 and 2.1 to be the same release. 2.2 was just released a few days/weeks ago and is a pretty big update, bringing native Flash support.  2.3 has been announced, but I don't think it's expected until the end of the year (or maybe fall?).

The Nexus One probably has decent upgrade support.  It was the first phone to launch with 2.1 (I believe) and the first to update to 2.2...but there's a catch to that.  Updates for Android (and Windows Mobile traditionally) are a bit more complicated than for, say, the iPhone in that the software and hardware is much more customized to individual phones.  Apart from hardware differences (and carrier settings...obviously), manufacturers tend to customize the OS skins with things like HTC Sense, MotoBlur, and Samsung's Touchwiz (and maybe Bada?). So instead of just having Apple saying "Here's an update" and sending it out over the air regardless of carrier, Google has to release the update, HTC has to infuse it with their UI (which is far better than the default, by the way), and the carriers have to do ....something...I guess.  Actually, I'm not sure if the carrier always has to release it or the manufacturer can themselves. For some reason, though, they are involved sometimes.  Could be a technical network thing or they're usually just the ones to host it in a specific region because of exclusivity agreements.  With the Nexus One, Google had the luxury of not having to release to manufacturers or deal with carriers.  The downside is it had a very bland interface compaired to other Android phones (a reason a lot of people prefer the HTC varient, the Desire).

Either way, I checked and the Galaxy S (i9000) either ships with or is upgradeable to 2.2, which will remain the best for quite a while.  Beyond that, I wouldn't bank on 2.3, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was offered as an upgrade either. Just keep in mind, that "Galaxy" is a series of different Samsung Android phones, so make sure you get the model number right so you get the newest one you want.   The fragmentation of the OS is one of the major criticisms of Android, so I wouldn't be suprised if Google started heavily pushing for manufacturers to release updates in the future in order to make their market share a bit more cohesive.

[Pugnate]

Yup, I knew about the older Galaxy phones.

Thanks though, that was quite helpful. And what you say does make sense. I guess it is a bit like the console vs PC or Mac vs PC argument. With so many different PCs sporting different hardware, maintaining uniformity can be a bit tricky, and does result in more bugs.

I read somewhere (Gizmondo or Engadget) that Android was releasing updates every month, which was probably someone exaggerating I guess.

Anyway if I can upgrade this new Galaxy phone, than this is what I am getting. The apps for Android are just so awesome.

[gpw11]

Aaaaand right on time, it was announced today (or at least reported on many sites today) that Google plans to decrease the frequency of Android updates (I'd imagine just those that are not critical or bug fixes). It looks like they'll be aiming for yearly updates.

As for the once a month thing, no idea where that would have come from.  A new Android phone once a month on average? Perhaps there are critical updates everyone gets that I don't know anything about.  I'm sure it made sense in some context, but the numbered updates that everyone talks about certainly come out less frequently than that.

I'm also a big fan of the OS....and the openness of it. I'm constantly flip-flopping over which phone route to take with my next upgrade though.

Also, I ordered a new screen/digitizer for my Omnia in order to try to make it more usable.  The thing has been through a lot (as I've mentioned....hard on my phones because of work and, well, drinking I guess). The main drawback is the touch screen has become a bit unresponsive and scratched to shit.  Installation looks like a nightmare and a fair number of people have fucked their phones up doing it. It'll at least let me hold off until I can get an upgrade...which comes after some dental work that neither of my healthcare providers covers...fuckers*.



*Out of spite I decided to get my wisdom teeth removed...which they pay for fully.  SEE ASSHOLES, COULD HAVE SAVED SOME MONEY IF ONLY YOU COVERED NECCESARY PROCEDURES SUCH AS CROWNS.

[idolminds]

I know this is really a smartphone thread, but I don't feel like making a whole thread for this.

Man, phone stuff gets complicated. I'm looking at prepaid options since I'm all poor and it seems like something I can handle. Some new plans have become available that I'm interested in...but theres always a catch.

Originally I was going to go with Virgin Mobile. Its what my brother and mom have and they work well enough. Drop $20 every 3 months into the account to keep it active, and then its $0.20/minute to talk. Thats pretty high per minute, but they don't use their phones much at all. For me, I'd be more likely to text. So out of that $20 I could but one of their 200/1000 text packages for $5/10.

Now they have a pretty nice plan, $25/mo gets you 300 minutes and unlimited text/email/im/web/data/blah blah. Pretty groovy, and I could probably use the data and web and stuff to look things up when I'm away from the computer...but I don't think I can justify $25/mo. I use cell phones quite a bit when I'm visiting family or at the meet, but the rest of the year I won't use it much at all.

So that was my plan. Get the $20 every 3 months things and then buy texting packages as I need them out of that money. $80/yr isn't bad. Plus I could get the phone I wanted with the slide out QWERTY keyboard. Though now I'm reading that QWERTY phone can only be used on the $25/mo plan. Plus VM doesn't do roaming, so when we were up north visiting family unless you were in town you didn't get any signal. Shit.

Then I was reading about T-Mobiles prepaid stuff. I might switch my mom and bro over to them. Their cheapest option has you buying minutes, lowest price is $0.10/min if you buy the $100 card. The nice part is once you have $100 in the account you get "gold status" and no matter the amount you put in the minutes don't expire for a year. So put $100 right from the start and after that you can put $10 and still have service for a year only buying what you need. And they allow roaming so coverage should be better.

The plan I was looking at is $15/mo, talk is $0.10/min but you get unlimited text and picture messaging. Seems pretty much perfect for me. Except...I don't think they have a QWERTY phone. FUCK!

So yeah...just venting and getting this out of my head. If I could get that VM phone and use the Tmobile plan there would be no problem. *sigh*

[gpw11]

Don't even get me started on cell companies.


Oh, and I just bought a Droid/Milestone to replace my broken Omnia.  Fuck me, that was expensive.

[Ghandi]

Fuck cell phone companies. Fuck them more for being complete assholes and fucking everyone over. Fuck fuck fuck I hate cell phone companies.

[Pugnate]

Looks like 4G is here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/06/04/wired.4g.wireless.explained/index.html?hpt=C2

Regarding what Idol posted, it just reminded me of the clusterfuck that is cell phone coverage in North America. In Europe, Asia, The Middle East, it is really cheap and uncomplicated to use a cellphone.

Again the problem just comes down to landmass. Canada and USA are HUGE, and Canada is still technically an underpopulated country, so yea that's why I guess.

I just remember it was so frustrating when I was in Canada.

The thing is that when you come from countries where scams and corruption are the norm, you go to places like Canada off your guard. Because corruption is so low in North America, you don't expect it anywhere... but some big companies are corrupt... they just play within the rules.

I remember when I was shopping for a cellphone, the guy at the AT&T booth basically convinced me to pay $300 for a cell with $199 promised to me in mail in rebate.

I was told to mail in a photocopy of my receipt by the guy at the booth, which I did. Later when I got mail from AT&T, I didn't get the check, but a letter stating that I had to send in the original receipt (contrary to what the dude at the booth told me, and what was written on the forms).

When I sent in the originals, I got a letter from AT&T telling me the deadline had passed.

Trust me, $200 for an international student is a lot of money.

I was really ticked, and I was stuck on a contract.

Screw cellphone contracts.

[scottws]

I know this is really a smartphone thread, but I don't feel like making a whole thread for this.

Man, phone stuff gets complicated. I'm looking at prepaid options since I'm all poor and it seems like something I can handle. Some new plans have become available that I'm interested in...but theres always a catch.

Originally I was going to go with Virgin Mobile. Its what my brother and mom have and they work well enough. Drop $20 every 3 months into the account to keep it active, and then its $0.20/minute to talk. Thats pretty high per minute, but they don't use their phones much at all. For me, I'd be more likely to text. So out of that $20 I could but one of their 200/1000 text packages for $5/10.

Now they have a pretty nice plan, $25/mo gets you 300 minutes and unlimited text/email/im/web/data/blah blah. Pretty groovy, and I could probably use the data and web and stuff to look things up when I'm away from the computer...but I don't think I can justify $25/mo. I use cell phones quite a bit when I'm visiting family or at the meet, but the rest of the year I won't use it much at all.

So that was my plan. Get the $20 every 3 months things and then buy texting packages as I need them out of that money. $80/yr isn't bad. Plus I could get the phone I wanted with the slide out QWERTY keyboard. Though now I'm reading that QWERTY phone can only be used on the $25/mo plan. Plus VM doesn't do roaming, so when we were up north visiting family unless you were in town you didn't get any signal. Shit.

Then I was reading about T-Mobiles prepaid stuff. I might switch my mom and bro over to them. Their cheapest option has you buying minutes, lowest price is $0.10/min if you buy the $100 card. The nice part is once you have $100 in the account you get "gold status" and no matter the amount you put in the minutes don't expire for a year. So put $100 right from the start and after that you can put $10 and still have service for a year only buying what you need. And they allow roaming so coverage should be better.

The plan I was looking at is $15/mo, talk is $0.10/min but you get unlimited text and picture messaging. Seems pretty much perfect for me. Except...I don't think they have a QWERTY phone. FUCK!

So yeah...just venting and getting this out of my head. If I could get that VM phone and use the Tmobile plan there would be no problem. *sigh*

$20 every 3 months plus $0.20/min. seems ridiculous to me.  I guess I'm spoiled though because I got smartphones + free (to me) service through my last two employers.

I have a BlackBerry Tour now, but I really want a Droid or Droid Incredible.  Trouble is, our company gets BlackBerry Curves and Tours for free, but there is no discount on anything else.  So I'd have to fork over $540 myself or try to expense it.

[idolminds]

Yeah, the $0.20/min thing does suck. But for as little as I would actually talk on the phone it wouldn't be too bad. They have monthly minute packs to buy but honestly even the smallest one I would never use on any particular month.

Though Im seriously considering tmobile if I can get a phone with a keyboard. There is just no way I'm going to be texting without it.

[gpw11]

I

$20 every 3 months plus $0.20/min. seems ridiculous to me.  I guess I'm spoiled though because I got smartphones + free (to me) service through my last two employers.

I have a BlackBerry Tour now, but I really want a Droid or Droid Incredible.  Trouble is, our company gets BlackBerry Curves and Tours for free, but there is no discount on anything else.  So I'd have to fork over $540 myself or try to expense it.

I'm really impressed with the Milestone/Droid so far....almost like its worth what I paid (don't ask). Vanilla Android is slightly bland, but I'm sure I can fix that and the hardware is awesome. Keyboard not as bad as I thought it would be.

[gpw11]

Well, I'll probably post more in-depth tomorrow, but still really impeessed with the Droid/Milestone and Android.

[Pugnate]

What is Milestone?

[gpw11]

Motorola Milestone = Moto Droid anywhere outside of the USA.  Exact same hardware.


Like I said, really impressed.  The hardware seems solid and it has a nice hard glass screen (sadly, LCD instead of OLED....but probably the nicest LCD screen I've seen).  It is very touch responsive and features a capacitive screen, so is fully multi-touch enabled (of course the iPhone screen is still more responsive than any other phone).  Slider is good, has a 2.5mm jack on the top and a pretty solid volume rocker/camera buttons.  The touch buttons are something I'm not a huge fan of, but I'm the kind of person who likes things to be as tactile as possible.   

It ran Android 2.0 out of the box, upgradeable to 2.1 through a download PC-side.  Not a huge difference between the two (that I noticed), but 2.1 does have some nice little extras like live wallpapers and stuff like that. Sadly, live wallpapers are NOT optimized and they do slow things down a bit....which is a shame as some of them look very nice.

All in all, Android is a huge improvement over WinMo and better for me than the iOS. It is very customizable (home screens, skins, widgets, etc) and you're not locked to the app store for programs.  Case in point, I was playing Quake 2 on the bitch the other day - somehting which can't be offered through the app store because Id doesn't like people redistributing their open source products through retail channels (or something).  Android is pretty snappy and has some great features and widgets; everything you'd probably want from the iphone and more home-brew like apps and programs. Pandora, Slacker Radio, it's all there.

Games seem to be pretty good, although there aren't as many as on the iPhone...but that seems to be changing. The Droid seems to be the best to run many of the higher powered games because, although the CPU is slower than some recent offerings, it apparently has the best dedicated GPU of any phone. That said, even though the graphics on some games blow DS games out of the water, the gameplay just really isn't up to the same level of quality.  I probably won't be gaming on it much, aside from some occasional distractions.

Office is present and can be edited through a paid app (*cough*), although Android phones (or most I believe) do come with a stock viewer.   The Milestone doesn't run a skin but rather the pure "Google Experience" which isn't as nice as HTC's Sense, but still very configurable with up to 9 panels and various widgets, etc. The Android media player pales in comparison with that of the iPhone, but it does the job and I'd imagine we'll get a new one soon.  Google apps integration is great but there are some serious flaws.  No hotmail push at all (WTF?) but that will probably be solved soon through a new third party app.  Google Tasks doesn't integrate with the calender, nor is there a specified Google Tasks app as of yet.  Google Navigator is good, but still pales compared to dedicated ones (iGo on Android still isn't as good as the Winmo variant either...but both blow the iPhone Nav options out of the water).   

Overall, I'd say that for anyone with the level of technical profiency likely to be found on these forums, Android would hands down be the way to go (unless you want PURE ease of use with little options for customization or tinkering...then iPhone all the way). With 2.2 on the way and bringing native DivX/Xvid support, Flash, installing apps on the SD card (wtf Google?) among other needed features , you can't really go wrong.

There are some things missing that should just be there, but overall I'm really pumped on Android now.  I'm just hoping I don't get shafted out of the 2.2 update.  It's been announced for the Droid though, so it looks VERY likely for the Milestone. 

[PyroMenace]

Well I think I was going to go for that 4G Evo that sprint released this month which runs Android, but then I saw the iPhone 4 stuff... I may finally bite and get an iPhone, the app store is hard to ignore.

[gpw11]

Yeah, if you really don't mind a physical keyboard and have no problem going through iTunes, and don't like to mess around with stuff, the new iPhone is probably the way to go.  ESPECIALLY if you want to use your phone as a music/multimedia player on a regular basis.  If my phone had broke a bit closer to the release date, I would have gone that way as I like the new design and the screen is really nice.  That said, I did need the keyboard and some productivity software (Project is on Android now) that isn't on the iPhone.   But damn, that new screen is nice.

Also, the iPhone is pretty closed off, but I believe Jailbreaking it gives you control of everything.  Oh, and the battery life is top-notch, unlike with the 4G Evo (apparently the big flaw there). 

[PyroMenace]

Yea, I contantly use my iPod and bring it everywhere, downloading podcasts on that through iTunes on it is convenient and haven't been interested in jailbreaking it. It's just dealing with iTunes on me PC is a bitch, whenever connecting my iPod to the PC with iTunes I constantly get an error saying my iTunes library can't be saved, I dont have access privileges yadda yadda. That and all my podcasts get reset. I've done a little bit of digging but from what I could tell theres a file apparently that's not where it should be or something but I never could figure out where. I may just have to reinstall it altogether. Then there's the no flash problem, but Apple's battle against Adobe is proving to be interesting, I've seen some flash sites totally go non-flash, and even the ones where they are browser and information intensive have made available their own app for their website on the app store like Amazon.

[PyroMenace]

Here's a nice summary on all the Android phones.

[gpw11]

Yea, I contantly use my iPod and bring it everywhere, downloading podcasts on that through iTunes on it is convenient and haven't been interested in jailbreaking it. It's just dealing with iTunes on me PC is a bitch, whenever connecting my iPod to the PC with iTunes I constantly get an error saying my iTunes library can't be saved, I dont have access privileges yadda yadda. That and all my podcasts get reset. I've done a little bit of digging but from what I could tell theres a file apparently that's not where it should be or something but I never could figure out where. I may just have to reinstall it altogether. Then there's the no flash problem, but Apple's battle against Adobe is proving to be interesting, I've seen some flash sites totally go non-flash, and even the ones where they are browser and information intensive have made available their own app for their website on the app store like Amazon.

Yes, iTunes is very good for podcasts.  By all means it really sounds like you should go iPhone.  One of the main benefits is that it doubles as an iPod, and if I didn't already have two iPods (a classic which acts as a hard drive for my car stereo and for parties and shit and a nano I use for the gym/running) I probably would have gone that route. It certainly has more apps, and even though a lot of them are crap, you'll at least know that every single good third party app will hit the platform simply because it's the most popular. Like Cobra said before, there are many benefits in choosing the market leader. No flash is kind of a bitch, but it's been dealt with well.  All the BIG flash sites (youtube, justin.tv) have provided apps and I can't see that stopping. Of course, no porn but really, who cares?

Cool article on Android.  HTC really needs to launch an android Device with the Touch Pro 2 keyboard...that shit runs circles around my Milestone's keyboard.

[Pugnate]

Cnet UK reviews the iphone 4:

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/0,39030106,49305853,00.htm

[gpw11]

The new iPhone is sweet.  I will say, however, that no matter how blown out of proportion the "can't hold the phone without losing signal" problem is, apple handled the PR aspect of it horribly.

[Pugnate]

I am actually thinking it may have been blown out of proportion? Or is it really that bad?

[gpw11]

Well, I guess that depends on how you want to look at it.  Reception apparently is better than thw previous versions, or at least it doesn't drop as many calls (keep in mind that that's not really saying all that much).  Thing is, the loss of signal while holding the phone is happening to everyone.  Granted, it doesn't SEEM to affect voice calls at this point, so I don't even know if it diminishes the actual utility of the phone.

That aside, its a massive design flaw either way you look at it and Apple's response was ridiculous.  "Hold it differently or buy one of our cases".   Any other company would be run through the mud for such a retarded damage control statement.


That said, android doesn't have a built-in spell checker...on a mobile device.   Google,  WHAT THE FUCK?!

[Cobra951]

I am actually thinking it may have been blown out of proportion? Or is it really that bad?

It's been suggested that there are ways to fix the antenna issue. Putting a piece of tape over the antenna area in the lower left corner of the phone, or buying a rubber case, as Apple has suggested. But it's certainly not very customer friendly to suggest that after paying $199 or $299 for a phone that you also need to pay $30 to fix a possible design flaw.

cnet

I have to laugh, really.

[gpw11]

Videos of this are insane. Like a guy holds a phone and you just watch the bars drop.  I'd think it was fake, but enough people are reporting it.  I don't believe people are actually losing reception to the point of dropping calls, but I imagine it really fucks with your data if you drop below the 3g threshold.

Apple Statement:

Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your Phone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.

Personal Jobs email:




Seriously.  I do get what apple is saying, and it could be true for every phone....to a point.  I've never seen one drop all their bars and down to EDGE before losing signal completely though.   And the case thing? I don't want to be a conspiracy nut here, but perhaps this might have something to do with why they're now offering a first party case.

[gpw11]

Also, never-mind about people not dropping calls because of this.  Apparently a lot of people ARE dropping calls - especially lefties.  I guess word is that overall reception is better...as long as you don't "hold it wrong" and bridge the gap between two antennae.

[Xessive]

I'm right-handed but my phone always goes in my left hand. I developed the habit that telecom always goes through my left ear. If a phone refuses to function simply because I'm holding in my left hand, which may cover an antenna placed there, I'm just not going to use the phone and instead find an alternative that will work for me.

Regardless of the technical issues with the phone, Apple are handling this terribly; one could even say they're rude.

[Cobra951]

Apple people are instructed to lie, based on a leaked document.

These statements are dead ringers for CEO Steve Jobs' own assertions that the iPhone 4 antenna and reception issues do not, in fact, exist. "There is no reception issue," he told one user. But the very fact that this document exists suggests that Apple execs know there is indeed a widespread hardware flaw, even if they're unwilling to address it publicly at this time.

Class-action lawsuit is coming.

[Pugnate]

The most 'effed up thing is that they are selling the fixes.

The fix is some shielding case, which Apple are making money off of.

Crazy.

[Cobra951]

But since Apple lovers spend more money than necessary, it's par for the course.

[scottws]

Oh Apple is the epitome of the evil corporation.  Seriously, even Microsoft doesn't come remotely close.  I could literally go on for a couple of hours about all the Apple bullshit I have to deal with at work because they either never fix ongoing problems, decide to feud with other companies to the complete detriment of their users, or force you into ridiculous upgrades.

[gpw11]

Yeah, it's pretty funny how they can get away with so much. 

[Xessive]

The fanboy attitude would explain how Apple gets away with so much. They let it happen.

I get a strange vibe from Apple fanboys.. The same vibe I get from cultists. Y'know that insincere joy you see in their blank eyes? "We're on a journey to a better place. Master Jobs will take us there." Usually followed by unnerving hysterical chuckles. Creepy.

[scottws]

The sad thing is that even 50 year old designers are hardcore Apple fanboys and display all the behavior of teenage videogame fanboys.  It's sad.

[beo]

apple lies to it's customers and insults their intelligence at the same time.

considering the problem in question is when the two antennas are bridged with your hand, how the fuck can a software patch fix this? ok, so the phone now tells you the truth about how you're getting a poor signal, but this doesn't stop the signal dropping even further when you hold it "wrong".

utter clusterfuck.

[Cobra951]

bAntennasBridgedByUserHand = GetCapacitanceTest();

if( bAntennasBridgedByUserHand )
        nDisplayBars = nTrueSignalStrength;
else
        nDisplayBars = nTrueSignalStrength - 2;

DisplayBars( nDisplayBars );

There.  I wrote their patch for them.

[Cobra951]

What Apple must do to stop the iPhone 4 bleeding.

. . . we believe that the software fix was meant to be a decoy to the real hardware issue . . .

Yeah, no shit.  That's the point of my little program above.

Now Consumer Reports is on their case too.  Awesome!

[Pugnate]

bAntennasBridgedByUserHand = GetCapacitanceTest();

if( bAntennasBridgedByUserHand )
        nDisplayBars = nTrueSignalStrength;
else
        nDisplayBars = nTrueSignalStrength - 2;

DisplayBars( nDisplayBars );

There.  I wrote their patch for them.

I have no idea what that means but I found it very funny. Probably the "There." bit.

[Cobra951]

In English:  If the antennas are bridged by the user's hand, then report the signal strength accurately. Otherwise, display 2 bars less than actual strength.  This way, the signal strength won't appear to drop so much when the user holds the phone "wrong".

[Xessive]

Apple gets all defensive, free iPhone 4 cases for everyone.

Apple just finished off its press conference dedicated on the iPhone 4 reception issues leaving us quite puzzled, to say the least. At one point Steve Jobs was saying that every phone has a weak spot, then he claimed everybody makes mistakes but Apple is quick to fix theirs so that's why they have loyal users. Apple wants its users happy and since everyone cries for free cases, they will give away free cases. But not because they've messed up, but only because "they loves their users".

How about that? Apparently the problem with the iPhone 4 antenna had been blown way out of proportion by the "bad press". The iPhone 4 reputation obviously has been ruined by its incorrect signal representation (now fixed in today's 4.0.1 update) and the easily accessible weak spot.