Topic: ATTN: 360 owners, MS to start blocking "unauthorised storage devices"

[idolminds]

Heads up!

So if you decided to not buy an official MS memory card for stupid prices and instead went with a Datel with more storage and a microSD slot for even more....then you might lose your saves when the next update hits.

No ones sure if this also includes the "do it yourself" hard drive upgrade, but its possible.

[MysterD]

Bah.

[Xessive]

Holy shit! I don't have an X360 and I feel offended! That's a really shit thing to do!

[MysterD]

I don't have to have an 360 to scratch my head at another one of Micro$oft's stupidities.
I'm sure it's gonna piss off a lot of 360 gamers who don't have a Micro$oft supported HD.

[Quemaqua]

Do I even need to say anything at this point?  I'll just sit here and wait for somebody to come defend Microsoft like they always do, as they continue to destroy gaming by giving those motherfuckers money.

[PyroMenace]

I'm amazed your all surprised by this. Not trying to defend MS but I didn't even know you could other storage devices besides the official ones. Sure it's a dick move I guess but if I did know about those devices I would be waiting for this news to come. 

[Ghandi]

Microsoft is the greatest. I actually write them a check every month for being awesome at life.

[Pugnate]

...but I didn't even know you could other storage devices besides the official ones.

What Pyro said. I also am not surprised considering that MS makes the bulk of its money on add-ons like the HD and the controllers, and only recently stopped making a loss per 360.

Anyway, it is a console, and had I been a big fan of the Xbox system or had I been one of the users of the so called "unauthorized storage devices", I guess I would have been upset or something... but considering the rules of the console world, I am neither surprised nor outraged.

The only 360 games I play are those that can be played with my brother or a lot of friends. To date, I have not finished one singleplayer game on the 360. Come to think of it, I haven't gotten beyond 15 minutes with one, except GTA IV (Which I finished 60% of),

[Quemaqua]

It's a ploy to get more of your money by overcharging to a ridiculous fucking degree for memory.  They want an absolute monopoly.  The only reason it's to be expected is because it's what Microsoft always does.  That doesn't make it acceptable.  And do I again need to remind you that you can use any laptop hard drive in the PS3?  Just because it's a console doesn't mean it has to find its way up your ass.

[gpw11]

It's a ploy to get more of your money by overcharging to a ridiculous fucking degree for memory.  They want an absolute monopoly.  The only reason it's to be expected is because it's what Microsoft always does.  That doesn't make it acceptable.  And do I again need to remind you that you can use any laptop hard drive in the PS3?  Just because it's a console doesn't mean it has to find its way up your ass.

I don't have anything to say about anything, I just thought it was amazing that there's a legitimate way to use Sony as a symbol in an argument against the unnecessary use of proprietary anything .

[PyroMenace]

It's a ploy to get more of your money by overcharging to a ridiculous fucking degree for memory.  They want an absolute monopoly.  The only reason it's to be expected is because it's what Microsoft always does.  That doesn't make it acceptable.  And do I again need to remind you that you can use any laptop hard drive in the PS3?  Just because it's a console doesn't mean it has to find its way up your ass.

I get that but it's old news, I don't understand why we have to go in an outrage about MS being greedy all the time. If Sony knew of a way to lock down PSPs firmware without people cracking it they totally would, I don't see neither of the two being a greater or lesser evil than each other.

[Quemaqua]

I'm not saying Sony is better than Microsoft, I'm saying it doesn't have to be this way, as evidenced by that one fact.  The only reason things are the way they are is because nobody is ever outraged.  Your consoles explode and you just say, "Oh well, guess I'll get another one."  They tell you, "Yeah, this thing you've been doing for a while now that we never said anything about?  We're going to make sure you can't do that anymore so you'll be forced to buy our ridiculously overpriced product."

If that's cool with you, then whatever, but in my book that shit isn't okay.

[PyroMenace]

I deal with it because I like playing video games, sure theres some shit business decisions that plague the industry, just like in any other industry, but I know theres not going to be some apocalypse that looms on the horizon like you all make it sound. In the end, I just don't buy what I don't like, and I still like the 360, enough so that I can deal with it breaking. And yes, the hard drive pricing on the thing is ridiculous, so I'm not going to be buying one, not at that price. But really, its video games for gods sake.

[Pugnate]

I don't have anything to say about anything, I just thought it was amazing that there's a legitimate way to use Sony as a symbol in an argument against the unnecessary use of proprietary anything .

The key word is "legitimate", but I thought the same thing.

And do I again need to remind you that you can use any laptop hard drive in the PS3?  Just because it's a console doesn't mean it has to find its way up your ass.

I was thinking about something the other day. The PS3 is probably the most PC like console this generation. In terms of raw power and crazy hardware extras, it is on top -- even if Sony sucks terrible at the development tools aspect of it.

Like the PC, the PS3 has suffered from the "It is too expensive in the short run" market perception, even though when considering the wifi; the hard drive; the HD capabities; and the free internet play, it is actually cheaper than the Xbox 360 in the longer run.

At the same time, the paid online service has probably helped make Xbox Live a far more desirable online service than the PS3 home thing.

And when it comes to monetary models, I think the Xbox 360 has been a far bigger success than the PS3. The reason is similar to what makes credit cards so successful, despite their almost predatory nature. People would rather spend less now, even if it means that in the long run, they will end up spending significantly more than they would on a superior (in terms of hardware) competing product, that requires a bigger short term investment.

In the end, MS didn't count on the 360 having such a high rate of hardware failure. That's really what kept them from really screaming past Sony. The RROD thing was a bit of a godsend for Sony, as it gave them more time to work at lowering manufacturing costs. In the end, their price cut wouldn't have been nearly as effective.

I also believe the PS4 will be a lot like the 360. I am sure that Sony will launch the PS4 at say $300 rather than $400, and will strip the machine of most hardware extras in order to sell them as optional components. I also believe the PS4's online service will be a paid for service.

Of course a lot of this depends on the success of the PS3, but I can't believe the PS3 will continue to outsell the 360 in the long run, simply because far too many people are invested in the MS console at this moment to make a switch. The fact that so many people are willing to overlook the RROD problem, shows how heavily invested they really are. 

[idolminds]

You guys didnt know about 3rd party memory cards? Those things have been around as long as memory cards as a concept has been around.

I'm actually kind of surprised MS didn't just allow you to save games to a generic USB drive. Whats the harm? Other than being able to rape people on prices for propri....oh now I get it.

[iPPi]

Not at all surprised, but it doesn't affect me.

[Xessive]

You guys didnt know about 3rd party memory cards? Those things have been around as long as memory cards as a concept has been around.

I'm actually kind of surprised MS didn't just allow you to save games to a generic USB drive. Whats the harm? Other than being able to rape people on prices for propri....oh now I get it.

That's one feature I appreciate about the PS3, being able to save practically anything on a USB drive, with few exceptions i.e. Street Fighter IV saves (for some stupid reason Capcom doesn't allow you to transfer SF4 saves on the PS3).

Pug might be right about Sony's future; they may very well opt to go full-out-bitch on us.

[Cobra951]

Problems with 3rd-party memory cards on earlier consoles have scared me away from them anyway.  I didn't know there was a flourishing market for the 360, but it doesn't surprise me.

I'm not here to defend MS, which would be extremely unlikely right now.  (See my last post in the Shadow Complex thread.)  But contrasting them with Sony in terms of openness, well, pot and kettle story.

Edit:  (Make that the next to last post now.  Heh.)

[idolminds]

Unsurprisingly, Datel is suing Microsoft.

[Quemaqua]

It isn't too often you see a line from a company that's 100% true, but in this case...

"The dashboard update is intended to, and does in fact, disable Datel's memory cards," states the lawsuit (PDF), which was filed in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California. "On information and belief, Microsoft's purpose in disabling Datel's memory cards is to prevent consumers from choosing a Datel product that offers far better value for the price. There is no benefit to consumers from Microsoft's decision to target and disable Datel memory cards. To the contrary, Microsoft's actions will leave approximately 50,000 consumers with useless memory cards (and without the ability to access their data on the cards), forestall innovation, and deprive future consumers of the benefits of competition."

That's completely true on every single point.

[Xessive]

I'm glad this case has taken a turn for the better.

[Cobra951]

Awesome.  Now to hope a judge with a brain gets the case.

[Schlotzky5]

That's completely true on every single point.

Yeah, but you're forgetting that logic and cogent arguments have no place in our justice system. They really only serve to slow down the process of deciding that companies that make a lot of money are inherently good. I mean come on, if they weren't, they wouldn't have made all that money right?

[Quemaqua]

Oh don't me wrong, I have no faith in the legal system whatsoever.  It's just unusual to see a company argue a point in a lawsuit like this and actually make statements that are entirely true.  Obviously these things serve their interests or they wouldn't be making the suit, but the sentiments don't ring false in any way.

[Pugnate]

Unsurprisingly, Datel is suing Microsoft.

Datel doesn't have a chance in hell.

Microsoft will correctly argue that they have up till recently sold their Xbox 360s at a loss because they follow a business model where their losses are covered by sales of accessories.

It is like a farmer taking the time, care, effort, and investment to make his piece of land fertile, and then someone else coming in and growing and selling tomatoes off of it at a cheaper price that doesn't factor in the cost of maintaining the land.

Microsoft will claim that they never signed a contract with Datel, and Datel never paid a percentage on those 50,000 customers.

As proof of concept, they will reveal how they receive $10 on every third party game sold for their system.

Sure MS charges $20 more than Datel on their memory cards, but MS also sells a new 360 for $200.

Right now, a decent processor costs that much.

I can see why MS would be ticked.

[idolminds]

Its not up to Datel to support Microsofts business model.

Datel will say that MS did not lock down this memory card access either with the initial console release or when it was found that companies could create and sell these 3rd party cards. Instead MS did nothing for several years while these things were sold, and only now blocked access to them. If it was important MS would have acted much sooner. Its like a bait and switch that not only hurts companies like Datel, but all the customers that bought their cards (that worked perfectly fine until this update). All so MS could be the only supplier and charge a premium?

I really don't see MS getting out of this one.

[Pugnate]

Yea it is a good point that they should have blocked it earlier, but I can see why they did it.

[Cobra951]

Its not up to Datel to support Microsofts business model.

Datel will say that MS did not lock down this memory card access either with the initial console release or when it was found that companies could create and sell these 3rd party cards. Instead MS did nothing for several years while these things were sold, and only now blocked access to them. If it was important MS would have acted much sooner. Its like a bait and switch that not only hurts companies like Datel, but [hurts] all the customers that bought their cards (that worked perfectly fine until this update) [emphasis mine]. All so MS could be the only supplier and charge a premium?

I really don't see MS getting out of this one.

That's where they're in hot water.  The court shouldn't care if one company shut out another company from creating an unauthorized peripheral.  It should very much care how much damage shutting out an existing peripheral after it's been established is doing to consumers.  Imagine all your game saves and other data being lost, then multiply by 50,000, not to mention the price of the now useless item you bought.