Topic: Quake 3 Arena turns 10

[idolminds]

And its still as awesome as ever.

[MysterD]

A lot of good memories of Q3A, I must say...

[Schlotzky5]

I never liked Q3A. it was too fast, all the weapons were too weak(cept the railgun) and the graphics were just a big blur.

The best thing Q3 gave us was Alice.

[Pugnate]

Yea I thought Q3A was technically quite impressive, but was merely average and at times even backwards in terms of design.

On the other hand the original Unreal Tournament was not only good looking, but was just a superior game in terms of the action, level design, weapon balance, and innovation. While UT boasted a ton of maps that were gorgeous, and highly memorable, Q3A had perhaps a couple of good ones. Q3A's weapons were dull and embarrassingly similar to past iterations, especially when compared to UT. And its lack of game types, singleplayer mode etc made it feel a little amateurish overall.

For me, Q3A was the beginning of the period when it became clear that id Software's talents were limited to making fantastic game engines.

[Schlotzky5]

Agreed. I played much more UT than Q3A. In fact, I played it a good amount last year. We figured out that some games could be installed on a thumb drive and played on the lab computers.

[idolminds]

UT was shit. YES I'M RESTARTING THIS DECADE OLD ARGUMENT!

[W7RE]

I always favored the mash up of medieval, gothic, and futuristic that Q3A had, and something about the game just felt right. However, my brother and I decided we liked UT more and bought a copy of that to share, and we played the living shit out of it.

Come to think of it though, Epic has come a long way as far as games are concerned, and it feels like id has lost a lot of steam. Doom 3 and Quake 4 were ok, but weren't huge blockbusters like you might think. I mean really, fucking Quake 1 and 2, Doom 1 and 2, you'd think Q4 and D3 would be HUGE and sell really well. Oh and RTCW wasn't too shabby either, especially the MP, which to me includes Enemy Territory. Epic, however, has gone on to do Gears of War. Though really when you compare them like that, they seem pretty equally matched, except that Epic struck gold by jumping ship to the 360, a move that id seems like they're moving toward as well.




Thinking about UT reminds me of how my brother and I used to play that and Half-Life DM all the time. It was weird, within a few minutes a 1 on 1 would quickly turn HL or UT into a stealth game. I recall listening for the sound of my brother crouching through the vent shafts as a clue to where he was so I could track him down. Most people I know would get pissed of and quit if I started sneaking around in a 1 on 1, but my brother was just as into it as me.

[Pugnate]

I recall listening for the sound of my brother crouching through the vent shafts as a clue to where he was so I could track him down. Most people I know would get pissed of and quit if I started sneaking around in a 1 on 1, but my brother was just as into it as me.

That's exactly how it happens when my bro. and I play on LAN.

[idolminds]

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, I think Unreal Tournament was pretty bad.  It had a lot going for it, but in the end the actual play mechanics were dull and imprecise.  Quake 3 is the ultimate achievement in purity as far as raw, fast, relentless DM gameplay is concerned.  Note that every UT game since the original has moved closer to Quake 3's ideal, not further away (and I'm not talking grand design scope, but raw second-to-second play mechanics).

[Pugnate]

UT has become faster paced but I wouldn't say it was an attempt to imitate Q3.

I mean they didn't even need to. UT sold a million copies within a month, which was spectacular for a PC game, especially back then, while Q3 really crashed and burned at retail.

There were a couple of things I liked about Q3 more. One was its weightier feel, and the other was the more impactful (is that a word?) feel of the visuals and sound effects, that resulted in fragging with more "oomph".

Still, it was no contest, at least for me. I always thought Q3 felt sorta dionsaurish next to UT.

The engine was great though. While the new Unreal engine has become the staple for so many console developers thanks to lobbying and specific console friendly design, the Q3 engine was picked without any push. It spawned some great games like Jedi Outcast, Alice etc.

Doom 3 and Quake 4 were ok, but weren't huge blockbusters like you might think.

I thought Quake IV was a terrible game. I know people sometimes talk in absolutes when they don't mean it, but I really do mean it. I thought Quake IV's action was about as satisfying as playing with a child's popgun.

But if you are talking blockbusters in terms of sales, Doom III sold 3.5 million copies, which makes it one of the best selling 'hardcore' PC game of all time.

[Cobra951]

I never did play Q3A.  What I liked about UT was the bots play.  I never did true multiplayer with it.  My impression that Q3A required multiple players is the reason I stayed away from it.  (Does it?  Guess I could look that up, but I just don't care enough this many years later.)

[idolminds]

Quake 3 had bots, and they were/are actually pretty fun.

Also Q3 had the best mods. Rocket Arena, Q3F, Freeze Tag...good stuff.

[scottws]

Come to think of it though, Epic has come a long way as far as games are concerned, and it feels like id has lost a lot of steam. Doom 3 and Quake 4 were ok, but weren't huge blockbusters like you might think. I mean really, fucking Quake 1 and 2, Doom 1 and 2, you'd think Q4 and D3 would be HUGE and sell really well. Oh and RTCW wasn't too shabby either, especially the MP, which to me includes Enemy Territory. Epic, however, has gone on to do Gears of War. Though really when you compare them like that, they seem pretty equally matched, except that Epic struck gold by jumping ship to the 360, a move that id seems like they're moving toward as well.

I totally hear what you are saying and think you are making a valid point but your examples are a little off.  Quake IV was made by Raven, RtCW was made by Gray Matter and Nerve, and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was made by Splash Damage.

[MysterD]

I don't know, guys - but when it comes to MP, I don't see how anybody can go wrong w/ either of the Quake or UT games.

Q3A and UT3 both fuckin' rocked my MP socks.

EDIT:
Same goes for Engines, as well - a lot of great games have came from both the Id Tech Engines and Unreal Engines.

[W7RE]

I totally hear what you are saying and think you are making a valid point but your examples are a little off.  Quake IV was made by Raven, RtCW was made by Gray Matter and Nerve, and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was made by Splash Damage.

Yea I forgot about that, I was just thinking of the names and knowing they're id properties. Though I think that strengthens what I was saying then lol. You can't blame id so much for Quake 4 then, but you can't commend them so much for WtCW and W:ET.

I guess it's just that Doom 3 (2004) was probably the last big hit from id (and it didn't seem that big to me. I was pretty into it, but everyone else seemed to think "oh fuck, shitty flashlight mechanic"), and Epic seems to have hit it big on 360 with GoW and their engine. Rage doesn't doesn't even really look that interesting to me, but I'm really curious and optimistic about it just because it's from id.

[Schlotzky5]

Say what you want, that flashlight looked damn good.

[Quemaqua]

Quake 3 is still the chosen proving ground of the hardcore FPS elite even after all this time.  That says a lot.  And yes, it had many of the best mods.  I have no desire to bash UT as it was a perfectly fine game that did things Quake 3 never attempted to, and they really started to get somewhere with 2K3 and beyond, but that's kind of the point.  Q3 is the ultimate in purity of form and simplicity of design (and that doesn't mean that it's shallow somehow).  UT fails utterly when you compare the two on an equal level, but it wasn't trying to do the same thing at all.  It was trying to branch out and do its own thing.  Assault was the fucking bomb, even if the game moved a bit strangely and wasn't terribly well balanced.

But seriously, Pug, go back and play UT and then play the other games in succession.  Each one takes another step closer to the Quake 3 ideal.  DM in UT was a slogging mess (though it was still leagues above Halo, so no disrespect), DM in UT3 sometimes nearly approaches the level of frantic fury you get in Q3.  The speed has increased and the weapon balance has changed.  I'm not trying to say they wanted to imitate, I'm just saying they moved closer to that basic mechanical ideal, just with a whole different game built on top.  Really, I don't even think the two should ever have been compared because they weren't trying to achieve the same goals.  They were both very good games, and a lot more dissimilar than people seem to think when they get into these discussions.

[beo]

yeah, i remember reviewers mentioning how much "quakier" UT got with 2k3. beefier weaponary and a faster gameplay mechanic than the original version. i loved both games pretty much equally - UT for it's various game modes, quake 3 for it's breakneck, twitch-action deathmatch.

i played a lot more quake 3 than UT though, since that was what our LAN group was into. we still meet up once a year or so and i still kick all their arses.

[Schlotzky5]

If Q3 is so awesome why does something called quad damage only multiply damage by 3?


boom roasted

[Cobra951]

Quake 3 had bots, and they were/are actually pretty fun.

Also Q3 had the best mods. Rocket Arena, Q3F, Freeze Tag...good stuff.

I finally remembered that I was pissed at id for releasing a Quake without a SP campaign.  That's why I didn't even try it.  I remember where I was at the time too, and I remember being afraid that all shooters like Quake would go DM-only.  I didn't want to support that.  Weird how that memory suddenly popped back into my head.

[Cools!]

I played and loved both games. I played UT first, then sometime later I picked up Q3 for variety. Originally I loved the scale and variety of all the UT maps. On the other hand, Q3 maps were smaller, but felt better designed as far as keeping the game going and creating conflict areas. The game felt very well balanced and always very exciting. The only thing it lacked for me was more CTF maps, which was kind of solved in Q3TA.

Overall, UT for CTF, Q3 for deathmatch (though Q3TA maps were lots of fun as well). Oh and Q3 didn't have that bloody annoying teleporter... UT2k4 was a great game as well.

However, both series were overshadowed become obsolete for me the minute I bought Tribes 2.

Btw, I can install Q3A, Q3TA and UT2k4 on my Mac so if anyone wants to play?!

[Pugnate]

Cools, I see the gaming hunger still burns a little.

[Cools!]

Oh yeah, especially since getting the PS3.

[Pugnate]

Oh yea, congrats on that BTW.

I have a feeling you appreciate the multiple uses of that thing as much as I do. It is so damn nifty.