Topic: Late Night Show debacle

[PyroMenace]

So apparently there's been a bump in the huge line up of late night shows on NBC because of... because... shit I forgot. All I know is that all the late night shows got bumped back an hour and all the hosts are laying down these backhanded comments to each other, mostly about Leno, and even some on Carson Daly. I barely watch TV anymore, and I mostly believe that "Late Night Host shows" are dead as much as I do like Conan I honestly could care less anymore. I just thought this whole ordeal was comedic because a bump in a TV shift caused about as much of an entertaining fuss as a bunch of old folks in a retirement home community raising cane that an important elderly member didn't catch the early bird discount at the nearby steakhouse restaurant. Haha.

[Quemaqua]

Heh, that's pretty funny.  I don't watch hardly any TV anymore, either, much less anything late-nite.  I do like Conan, though.

[shock]

Funny stuff.  Good for Conan.

For the record, I never watch his show, but he's the only late night guy I can watch.  Jay Leno makes me want to stab someone. /Que

[Cobra951]

Craig Ferguson is the only late-night host that makes me laugh out loud all the time.  Sometimes I can hardly catch my breath.  He is the show.  When the guests come out, it gets worse.

I've been sort of following the late-night shakeup for a few days.  It fuels much better comedy than usual across the board.

[K-man]

There's a lot I could say about this situation but ultimately all that needs to be said is Conan got fucked.  NBC laid this elaborate plan out years ago to avoid a situation similar to the Dave/Leno debacle and they still managed to screw it up.

So Conan makes all these preparations, leaves a show he was excellent in, moves his staff and family all the way across the country for the Tonight Show and then 3 months later NBC decides that things need shaking up.

[nickclone]

The main problem is that NBC doesn't want Leno to quit, that and they're afraid that if he does quit he might go to another network. Personally, I haven't watched these talk shows in year, I'd rather watch Adult Swim repeats or the Bio channel.

[scottws]

There's a lot I could say about this situation but ultimately all that needs to be said is Conan got fucked.  NBC laid this elaborate plan out years ago to avoid a situation similar to the Dave/Leno debacle and they still managed to screw it up.

So Conan makes all these preparations, leaves a show he was excellent in, moves his staff and family all the way across the country for the Tonight Show and then 3 months later NBC decides that things need shaking up.

I totally agree Conan got screwed.  Ultimately it's because Conan's Tonight Show ratings haven't been anywhere close to what Leno's were.  I don't think it's exactly fair because I bet Leno's ratings weren't as good as Johnny Carson's when Leno took over in the first place.  It takes time to grow your viewer base.  There are people who loved Leno and just don't like Conan and won't tune in.  It will take awhile for people to accept "This is the Tonight Show" and just watch it and not think about what it was like when someone else was hosting it.

But of course NBC doesn't want to wait for that to happen.

[Schlotzky5]

I think the format is dying. Cheesy 'topical' monologue that consists of bad puns, followed by hastily thrown together sketch comedy and a guest to hawk their latest movie.

For late night yucks, I prefer the Daily Show and the Colbert Report.

[Cobra951]

No one has truly replaced Johnny Carson.  I know I'm stuck in my generation, but still, there was a certain class the Tonight Show had during his reign that couldn't be touched then or now.  It dies with him, and so the format might follow.  It's time for a new approach.

[K-man]

I totally agree Conan got screwed.  Ultimately it's because Conan's Tonight Show ratings haven't been anywhere close to what Leno's were.  I don't think it's exactly fair because I bet Leno's ratings weren't as good as Johnny Carson's when Leno took over in the first place.  It takes time to grow your viewer base.  There are people who loved Leno and just don't like Conan and won't tune in.  It will take awhile for people to accept "This is the Tonight Show" and just watch it and not think about what it was like when someone else was hosting it.

But of course NBC doesn't want to wait for that to happen.

Well, part of the problem is that Leno's show is doing a terrible job of being a lead in to the Tonight Show.  You can't blame Leno for all of it though.  People obviously don't want a talk show format during that time, and it was a risky maneuver to start with.  Course if Leno's show didn't exist, those people might actually tune into Conan as well.

Personally I don't think Conan's brand of humor is appropriate for the time slot.  He owned Late Night's time spot hands down.  With the transition to the Tonight Show he's had to tone down his humor significantly.  Even still it probably doesn't resonate with the mouth breathers who loooooooove Leno.

Can't really blame either one ultimately.  They're both being jerked around.

[Cobra951]

And so Conan drops the other shoe.  People of Earth, attention!

[idolminds]

I agree with Cobra, Craig Ferguson is awesome.

[scottws]

And so Conan drops the other shoe.  People of Earth, attention!

Wow.  The thing that sucks though is that I doubt NBC cares at all.  It's a win-win for Jay Leno and NBC.  I have a feeling they'll just give Jay the Tonight Show back at its old time slot.  Of course, if that happened I'm sure Conan could sue them and easily get a pretty sizable settlement out of it.  Not that that makes him a winner here, but at least it's a consolation prize.

[Schlotzky5]

I heard that there is something in Conan's contract that says NBC can push his show back to 12:05 if they want to.

[MysterD]

So, given all this...
How many people are going to actually tune in at 10pm for the Jay Leno Show?
And 11:35 for The Tonight Show w/ Conan?

Could this all be a big plan by NBC to get MAJOR ratings tonight for both shows and to actually get people to stop watching the news at 10pm and hope that tonight's views will change their habits and watch their shows?

[Ghandi]

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/conan-obrien-says-he-wont-do-tonight-show-following-leno/

They link Conan's statement in the article:

   People of Earth:

    In the last few days, I’ve been getting a lot of sympathy calls, and I want to start by making it clear that no one should waste a second feeling sorry for me. For 17 years, I’ve been getting paid to do what I love most and, in a world with real problems, I’ve been absurdly lucky. That said, I’ve been suddenly put in a very public predicament and my bosses are demanding an immediate decision.

    Six years ago, I signed a contract with NBC to take over “The Tonight Show” in June of 2009. Like a lot of us, I grew up watching Johnny Carson every night and the chance to one day sit in that chair has meant everything to me. I worked long and hard to get that opportunity, passed up far more lucrative offers, and since 2004, I have spent literally hundreds of hours thinking of ways to extend the franchise long into the future. It was my mistaken belief that, like my predecessor, I would have the benefit of some time and, just as important, some degree of ratings support from the prime-time schedule. Building a lasting audience at 11:30 is impossible without both.

    But sadly, we were never given that chance. After only seven months, with my “Tonight Show” in its infancy, NBC has decided to react to their terrible difficulties in prime time by making a change in their long-established late night schedule.

    Last Thursday, NBC executives told me they intended to move the “Tonight Show” to 12:05 to accommodate the “Jay Leno Show” at 11:35. For 60 years, the “Tonight Show” has aired immediately following the late local news. I sincerely believe that delaying the “Tonight Show” into the next day to accommodate another comedy program will seriously damage what I consider to be the greatest franchise in the history of broadcasting. The “Tonight Show” at 12:05 simply isn’t the “Tonight Show.” Also, if I accept this move I will be knocking the “Late Night” show, which I inherited from David Letterman and passed on to Jimmy Fallon, out of its long-held time slot. That would hurt the other NBC franchise that I love, and it would be unfair to Jimmy.

    So it has come to this: I cannot express in words how much I enjoy hosting this program and what an enormous personal disappointment it is for me to consider losing it. My staff and I have worked unbelievably hard, and we are very proud of our contribution to the legacy of “The Tonight Show.” But I cannot participate in what I honestly believe is its destruction. Some people will make the argument that with DVRs and the Internet, a time slot doesn’t matter. But with the “Tonight Show,” I believe nothing could matter more.

    There has been speculation about my going to another network but, to set the record straight, I currently have no other offer and honestly have no idea what happens next. My hope is that NBC and I can resolve this quickly so that my staff, crew, and I can do a show we can be proud of, for a company that values our work.

    Have a great day and, for the record, I am truly sorry about my hair; it’s always been that way.

    Yours,

    Conan

Conan is the man. Like Schlotzky, I usually watch Stewart/Colbert at night, but if I do catch the late-night stuff, Conan is the only one I watch. He's leagues above the rest.

[MysterD]

So, why don't they do this for a schedule...?

10:00pm-10:30pm - NBC News at 10 (instead of 11pm).
10:35pm-11:30pm - Jay Leno Show
11:35pm-12:35pm - Tonight Show w/ Conan O' Brien

[idolminds]

Why doesn't Leno go do something other than "The Tonight Show 2"? His new show is basically the same thing as his old show. No wonder Conan is having ratings issues when all the Leno fans still have Leno to watch. And Leno still comes on before Conan. Its like nothing changed.

[scottws]

So, why don't they do this for a schedule...?

10:00pm-10:30pm - NBC News at 10 (instead of 11pm).
10:35pm-11:30pm - Jay Leno Show
11:35pm-12:35pm - Tonight Show w/ Conan O' Brien

It's not "NBC News".  It's the local news.  You try telling 95% of local television stations their nightly news is going to start at 10:00pm now.

[shock]

This made me laugh.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2010/01/13/130-conan-obrien/

Particularly, the end...

Now, the biggest and most important thing to remember is to never, under any circumstances bring up a Conan O’Brien sketch or joke that has taken place in the last three years. You will be met with only blank stares. For you see, while white people will fiercely support Conan O’Brien in any public forum, they always fail to support him in the only way that actually helps – by watching his show.

[Cobra951]

Racism is racism, and it's very seldom funny.

[PyroMenace]

Cobra, you are soo very wrong.

[shock]

The site is more a critique of the American middle class than anything.  This group just so happens to be white.  And  "Stuff the American Middle Class likes" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.  I don't find any of it offensive.  It's all cute and amusing.

[Cobra951]

My rule is to invert the class of people or person.  If that doesn't work, neither does the original.

"Miss White America"  That one wouldn't get far with advertisers.

"Stuff Black People Like"  Phew!  That better be Chris Rock's material.

I know I'm sensitive about whites being at the bottom of the politically correct ethnic pile; and if I wasn't under the influence of a beer last night, I probably wouldn't have posted about this at all.  Now that I have, I'm not going to backpedal.  To be fair to you, I know that you were only posting it because you found it amusing.  To the extent of derailing that intention, I'm sorry.  I'm done with this now.  Sorry, shock.

Edit:  If possible, I would like a mod to move this block of posts (from my last one to this one, plus any other related OT posts that follow) to their own thread in the Serious Topics board.  I really should not have open this can of worms here.  Thanks in advance.

[shock]

No need to apologize, my friend.  No offense was taken in the slightest.  That website as a whole is definitely a unique situation, and there are perfectly logical reasons to support either side in the discussion.  I had a very similar reaction when I first viewed the website.  I sort of wish it wasn't called what it was called, but once you get a better feel for it, the racism element subsides.  It's more of a lighthearted criticism of the yuppie/hipster/liberal/Starbuck's hating white middle class culture than a casting of the entire white community (if such a thing even exists).  But you wouldn't get that impression from what I posted.

As per racism in general, I'd love to have a discussion.. perhaps in another thread!  I'm filling out law school apps and keep conveniently skipping over all optional "ethnicity" questions because I'm white and don't want to hurt my chances of admission.

[scottws]

An NBC executive isn't exactly giving Conan a vote of confidence.

[idolminds]

Ebersol blamed the late night shift on O’Brien.

“What this is really all about is an astounding failure by Conan,” Ebersol added, referring to “The Tonight Show With Conan O’Brien’s” ratings, which have fallen since O’Brien took over the reigns.

And when Leno took over for Carson the ratings dropped. But when Carson left, he left. So people got used to Leno, gave him some time and the show found its audience.

Whats different this time is Leno is still around, still has pretty much the exact same show, and is still on before Conan.

[scottws]

That's true, but it really is mostly that people want to watch other stuff at 10:00pm and just aren't sticking around for Conan.  If NBC had some highly-watched show on before and after the local news, Conan's ratings would be higher.

[idolminds]

Wow.

[Quemaqua]

Haha, wow indeed.  That was kind of epic.  I mean, you know... for TV.

[MysterD]

Wow.

Yeah, I caught that the other nite.
I've been watching Leno and Conan a fair deal lately.

Of course, NBC is probably going to keep their shows, if enuff people are tuning into it since the whole "Late Show" debacle - which makes me wonder if tNBC planned this mess, too.

[K-man]

Ebersol is playing a terrible Devil's Advocate.  This is the same guy who basically proudly announced that the Winter Olympics was going to lose 200 mil for NBC.  They can lose 200 million on the Olympics but all of a sudden giving Conan the time of day to build his show is a terrible idea? 

[ScaryTooth]

Jeff Zucker is a shitty CEO. He couldn't program a network line-up if his life depended on it.

I'm personally annoyed by this. I love Conan. I watch his monologue almost every night before I go to bed. Now he is getting replaced by someone with bland and boring mass-appeal.

[ren]

I don't watch any of the late night shows and don't really care about this debacle. However, if this leads to Conan being a writer and giving me vintage Simpsons quality material, it'll all be worth it.

[scottws]

You know, I was pondering this whole deal a bit today.  I used to like Jay Leno quite a bit around 10-12 years ago.  I also liked Conan.  Over time though, Jay seemed to become more jaded.  He made it really obvious when he didn't like a particular guest or bit that was on his show.  He would treat them rudely and try to hurry them along making all sorts of off-handed comments, not trying to hide his disinterest at all.  This was really obvious when he had animal acts or cooking bits on.  Hell I remember he even did this with Martha Stewart one time.  It really turned me off to the guy after awhile.

[scottws]

So I watched Conan last night and it seems pretty certain that he's leaving the Tonight Show.  He made a few comments indicating something to the effect of:  "In all probability, this will be one of the last shows we do with the Tonight Show".  And wow was he tearing into NBC during his monologue.  NBC has handled this whole debacle horribly, but even I was squirming and uneasy as Conan delivered his monologue.

Also Jay Leno has said yesterday that it is looking more and more like he's going to return to hosting the Tonight Show.

[scottws]

Well, it's official.  Conan is out.  I can't believe that.  It really sucks for him.

I found a site yesterday that had videos from 2004 of both Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien announcing the transition of the Tonight Show in 2009.  It was quite interesting because Jay said it's good because he can't see himself hosting the show into his 60's and that only Johnny Carson could do that.  Well, he's 59 now.  He was probably just rationalizing it, but it was still interesting to re-hear.

Edit:  Found the videos from 2004.

[shock]

I'm very curious to see his last show.

[MysterD]

I'm very curious to see his last show.

Same here. It'll definitely be on tomorrow night on my TV.

[gpw11]

It's tomorrow?

I've been loving this.  Not so much because I really like Conan, but because I really don't like Jay Leno.  The guy is, and always will be, a hack. His jokes are moronic, his delivery is repetitive and retarded, and his interview style is pure shit. Talk show hosts need to be very funny, great interviewers, or some combination of both.  He doesn't have any of it.  Instead he has a fucked up face, funny voice, and some weird neck twitch.

I agree with Cobra about Carson simply because my parents used to have a collection of his greatest shows and I'd watch those from time to time.  The guy was on the ball; funny, entertaining, but also a very good interviewer. Leno taking over for him blows my mind (and apparently blew his as well), because Letterman was the heir apparent in pretty much every way.  Obviously, not as good as Carson, but still much more capable of carrying the torch than Leno.

So yeah, I kind of love the Leno backlash that's going on.