Topic: Fallout 3

[Quemaqua]

I don't understand how they don't find the people responsible for this and hold them accountable.  Find the fucking leak!  How much money do you spend on advertising and you can't throw a little more into investigating the crime?  This has been discussed before by people more intelligent than I, and while it isn't a sure thing by any means it would be fully possible to investigate and potentially prosecute.  I don't understand it.

Anyway, it really sucks that it came out so far in advance of the game's release.  That's what's most sad.  Everything gets pirated, but to have this happen so much earlier... that's going to hurt them.  It's one thing to have a day-one situation or even to have the thing pop out a few days to a week in advance, but nearly a month?  That's really bad.

As much as I would download the PC version right away if I could because I want it so bad (my CE is paid in full at Amazon, thankyouverymuch, I'm no cheap bastard), I hope that one doesn't manage to get pirated early.  It'll get pirated one way or the other, of course, but hopefully not early.

[MysterD]

I wouldn't be surprised if the game's release date gets pushed way ahead to "as soon as the stores get a copy of the game" or a to few weeks ahead of schedule -- just to try and get people to say "I'm supporting the dev's, here's my money!"

[Quemaqua]

That's an interesting thought, but I'm sure there are reasons they can't do that.  Still, it would be interesting if the manufacturing had gotten underway early enough for it to be possible to pull in the release date by a week or two.  I wonder if that was actually done how much damage it would mitigate?  It won't happen, but it's still an interesting thought.

[MysterD]

That's an interesting thought, but I'm sure there are reasons they can't do that.  Still, it would be interesting if the manufacturing had gotten underway early enough for it to be possible to pull in the release date by a week or two.  I wonder if that was actually done how much damage it would mitigate?  It won't happen, but it's still an interesting thought.

Well, I know it has been done for music albums before. For one instance, 50 Cent's Get Rich of Die Tryin' was bootlegged so heavily ahead of time on the Net and outside of it, the record label pushed it out a week earlier.

Have we seen any console or PC games get an earlier change release date from their publisher company b/c of such piracy/bootlegging?

[Pugnate]

This is just terrible.

I know this happened on the 360, but on the PC they say that piracy hurts the most during the first week, and many of those determined to pirate will end up buying a copy if they can't get their pirated game within the first 5 days or so.

That's partly why such extreme measures have started with games like Bioshock etc. Zero day piracy is what they say is the biggest threat.

Also, many of the analysts credited "The Dark Knights" opening day success to its extremely secure distribution methods. Apparently, before the release of the film, every print was passed under intense supervision. Previews were distributed through a documented chain of distribution. In the end the movie didn't hit the internet for a while, especially since extra security was provided to avert the camcorder piracy.

Recently, Ubisoft sued an OEM company, after they traced the leak copy Assassin's Creed PC to an OEM employee's house. Apparently the game was on the internet nearly a month before its release on PC.

Anyway, I don't think a thousand pirated 360 copies of FO3 will make a huge impact. It is just weird that the pirates are enjoying their booty this early.

[MysterD]

This is just terrible.

I know this happened on the 360, but on the PC they say that piracy hurts the most during the first week, and many of those determined to pirate will end up buying a copy if they can't get their pirated game within the first 5 days or so.

That's partly why such extreme measures have started with games like Bioshock etc. Zero day piracy is what they say is the biggest threat.

And I think by taking overly extreme measures, they make matters even worse -- potentially causing more pirates to be created. I mean, hell -- if Spore didn't have such vicious DRM, I don't think it would be a track to the most pirated game of all time. Of course, on the other hand, the game still is selling like crazy, regardless of all the piracy going on.

I still think the best piracy answer is to use no DRM and reward your customers -- a la Stardock and CDPR with Witcher. Fine, go play the game, version 1.0 -- it's not going to be the best build of the game. So, do you want the latest patch of the game with bug fixes? Want extra free DLC? Want extra free soundtracks (GOG and Witcher: EE)? Want to upgrade to a special newer version of the game (Witcher EE)? Register an account with us, get online, verify your account over the dev's game servers -- then, you'll get what you want. The companies need to make it so that the pirate has to go buy the game to get the best version of the game.

I think what BethSoft should do is find a way to render the pirated copy as not worth pirating. B/c right now, pirated version 1.0 is going to be the same as retail version 1.0. BethSoft should purposely release a Day 1 Patch over XB Live, which'll fix a few bugs and/or add maybe even a new quest or two, at the very least. They got to do something to make people say, "I'll go buy the real copy over pirating the pirated one." Even if it's a little bit of patching, it'll still make the gamer say, "This company really supports their game. I think I'll go buy it b/c they'll probably add more content later."

Also, many of the analysts credited "The Dark Knights" opening day success to its extremely secure distribution methods. Apparently, before the release of the film, every print was passed under intense supervision. Previews were distributed through a documented chain of distribution. In the end the movie didn't hit the internet for a while, especially since extra security was provided to avert the camcorder piracy.

Very interesting.

Recently, Ubisoft sued an OEM company, after they traced the leak copy Assassin's Creed PC to an OEM employee's house. Apparently the game was on the internet nearly a month before its release on PC.

Interesting.

Anyway, I don't think a thousand pirated 360 copies of FO3 will make a huge impact. It is just weird that the pirates are enjoying their booty this early.

I still think it'll make some impact, myself. It might cause some gamers to go pirate a copy, if they own a X360 already (modded) -- now that the word is out. Possiblly, those PC gamers that own a (modded) 360 might just say, "Screw it! I'll just go pirate the console version."

It's really going to be interesting to see how well the game sells, now.

[MysterD]

I'm watching Spike TV and seeing some of their exclusive FO3 footage and interview w/ Todd Howard.
Wow. Just wow.
This can't be out freakin' soon enough.

EDIT:
Watching Spike TV with their FO3 thing still.
Geoff asked Gavin of BethSoft what's the evilest thing you can do in FO3.

(click to show/hide)

Gavin responded that there's a quest in Fallout 3 where if you find an atomic bomb, you can set the nuke off on a whole fuckin' town!

[Pugnate]

It probably does make it worse, but we've discussed this to death for sure.

I've gone ahead and preordered this. Damn you Bethesda! *waves fist*

[Xessive]

I'm supporting Bethesda and picking this up as soona s it comes out here, just like I did with Oblivion! That game has outlasted any other game in terms of my attention span.

On a related note, my copy of The Witcher: Enhanced Edition has just arrived today from Germany! I really respect CDProjekt and appreciate their effort so I went all out and got the CE!

Pug may laugh because he knows I am generally not the collector type But damn it this is a cause I believe in! "Devs who love gamers!"

[MysterD]

GameTrailers TV Episode Last night.

Yes, with lots of Fallout 3 greatness

[Quemaqua]

I did enjoy that.  I stayed up to watch it, but was so busy playing FO2 I kind of missed most of it, heh.  Now there's an assload of more mostly-unedited gameplay footage up at GT, and while it could sort of be considered spoilery I guess, it's pretty straightforward and gives a better idea of what it's like to just sit there and play for a minute, but it's still short enough not to leave you feeling satisfied.  It makes me so rabid to play... arg...

Linky for vids.  They don't detail anything specific that we haven't seen before, it's just showing more of it.

[MysterD]

Que, holy shit at the bottom vid!
That's BIS's Van Buren (aka BIS Fallout 3, before it got canceled!)
I have seen numerous screenshots, but have never seen a vid of Van Buren in motion.
Wow, that looks great in motion.

My God, that looks like probably the Fallout most of the hard-headed hardcore FO fans wanted.

Damn...I wish that got finished before BethSoft got the rights to FO.

[PyroMenace]

Que, holy shit at the bottom vid!
That's BIS's Van Buren (aka BIS Fallout 3, before it got canceled!)
I have seen numerous screenshots, but have never seen a vid of Van Buren in motion.
Wow, that looks great in motion.

My God, that looks like probably the Fallout most of the hard-headed hardcore FO fans wanted.

Damn...I wish that got finished before BethSoft got the rights to FO.

Or you could go play Fallout Tactics without the shitty audio.

[Xessive]

Yep, saw it at the bottom of the link that Que posted. Looking back at the classic style it probably would have attracted less attention than Beth's work.

[MysterD]

When BethSoft got the rights to FO, did they take Van Buren with them?
Or was it just for future Fallout's?

So, are Van Buren assets still Interplay's?
Or BethSoft's?
For Christ sakes, someone finish the rest of that thing!

[MysterD]

Yep, saw it at the bottom of the link that Que posted. Looking back at the classic style it probably would have attracted less attention than Beth's work.

I agree with that -- b/c Van Buren doesn't look too much different than FO2. But you gotta' admit, though -- Van Buren does still look good. It looked like the next evolutionary step for Fallout, doing 3D old-school isometric with a full 3D rotating camera and all.

What BethSoft's doing with Fallout 3, they're completely revolutionizing the look and feel of the game, in full 3D with direct controls in 1st person or 3rd person OTS -- which is what's garnering so much attention. To me, it looks like all the other classic stuff that made Fallout what it is are still there. The atmosphere definitely looks there, still. Of course, the RPG elements and loads of decision making per quest are going to be there; and I think that is what made FO what it is.

Goddamn, I would've loved to have both BIS's Van Buren come to fruition and BethSoft's FO3.
 

[Xessive]

I agree with that.

But you gotta' admit, though -- Van Buren does still look good. It looked like the next evolutionary step for Fallout, doing 3D old-school isometric with a full 3D rotating camera and all.

What BethSoft's doing with Fallout 3, they're completely revolutionizing the look and feel of the game with full 3D, direct controls in 1st or 3rd person OTS -- which is what's garnering so much attention.

Goddamn, I would've loved to have both BIS's Van Buren come to fruition and BethSoft's FO3.

Don't get me wrong, that is exactly what drew so much attention to it. The original stytle would have primarily only appealed to the original fans (or fans of the genre). I would have loved to see a game like that, but my mind always turns back to Crusader everytime I see that isometric camera perspective. To be perfectly honest the only reason I played Fallout back in the day was that I thoguth it would be like Crusader! haha At the time Fallout to me was like a blend of Crusader and Final Fantasy.

[MysterD]

Don't get me wrong, that is exactly what drew so much attention to it.

Right -- b/c what BethSoft did w/ their FO3, the open-minded Fallout fans would jump aboard (like myself and Que); you'd definitely attract new fans to FO b/c of those who are fans of BethSoft's Elder Scrolls stuff would jump aboard automatically b/c it's a different RPG from them; you'd get modern gamers who never played a FO before to jump aboard b/c it's look so modern (and so damn good, too).

You're right -- the only fans BethSoft's FO3 pissed off are the hardcore old-school FO fans. And I'm guessing, with VATS, you might even get them to come around, even. You're always at least gonna have your few that are gonna still be like, "BethSoft's Fallout 3 just ain't the Fallout that *BIS* envisioned."

The original style would have primarily only appealed to the original fans (or fans of the genre). I would have loved to see a game like that, but my mind always turns back to Crusader everytime I see that isometric camera perspective. To be perfectly honest the only reason I played Fallout back in the day was that I thoguth it would be like Crusader! haha At the time Fallout to me was like a blend of Crusader and Final Fantasy.

I think it was CGW? Regardless, one review got me interested in FO2. I never heard of the game. I saw a review for it and I was basically drooling at what I was reading about it. They gave it an A-. That was it for me -- I had to have it. And I got it for X-Mas. FO2 ruled.

[MysterD]

Pete Hines of BethSoft expands further on some comments he's made about piracy on the PC and pirates calling for tech support.

From MTV.com.

Bethesda Is Tired Of Spending Money Supporting Software Pirates
Posted by Patrick Klepek on 10/13/08 at 3:00 pm.

Piracy remains one of the biggest issues facing PC gaming these days.

Last week, “Fallout 3″product manager Pete Hines told me that some development studios now calculate that up to half of their customer support calls involve dealing with people who have pirated copies of the game.

That’s bad.

Hines discussed the problem of piracy with MTV Multiplayer just days before, ironically, the Xbox 360 version of “Fallout 3″ leaked. Piracy is still far more prevalent on the PC side, which has serious implications for studios like Bethesda Softworks, whose development bread-and-butter has been PCs.

“It is probably the most…[long pause]…probably the most difficult issue specifically facing PC gaming right now,” said somberly-toned “Fallout 3″product manager Pete Hines to me after playing four hours of his new game a few weeks ago. “How are we gonna walk that line?”

With this kind of concern at Bethesda, you’d never guess what kind of copy-protection they’re putting on “Fallout 3“…

Since our talk, circumstances have changed. “Fallout 3″ has leaked. But the problems remain the same. The biggest obstacle, explained Hines, is figuring out who actually is a pirate.

There will be no “Spore”-like digital rights management (DRM) in “Fallout 3.” There wasn’t in “The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion” and Bethesda has seen no reason to make sweeping changes to their approach with “Fallout 3.”

“The amount of money we spend supporting people who didn’t pay us for the game in the first place…it’s f–ing ludicrous”

“It’s pretty mild,” said Hines of the DRM. “Much like ‘Oblivion,’ we want there to be some level of protection there so people aren’t just randomly pirating games and passing it around, but we’re very sensitive to the end-user experience, particularly for the person who has bought a legitimate copy and not doing something that is too intrusive, invasive. You bought your game, you put it in your PC, you start playing it.”

Hines is sympathetic to the complaints of legitimate gamers. That’s why there isn’t anything particularly intrusive in Bethesda’s PC products.

“You know, I saw the Penny Arcade guys did a number of guest editorials from guys like [Kotaku's Brian] Crecente and [Gamasutra's] Chris Remo,” said Hines. “It’s not easy. Being a consumer, I totally see it from the consumer side. You know, get out of my way and let me play the game, right? I paid you money for this, I deserve to play the game with no barriers to entry and no frustrations.”

Attempting to treat their players as legitimate consumers as widely as possible has its drawbacks, however. It becomes difficult for Bethesda to determine who is and isn’t someone who paid for their game. This becomes especially distressing for the studio’s customer support division.

“The amount of times we see stuff coming through where it’s like, the resolution to the problem was [the] guy had a pirated copy of the game…” said a visibly frustrated Hines. “The amount of money we spend supporting people who didn’t pay us for the game in the first place…it’s f–ing ludicrous. We talk to other developers, guys who are [like] ‘Yeah, it’s a third, it’s 50% of our [customer] support.’"

But there’s a careful line for all parties. If someone calls in for support and seems to be experiencing a problem isolated to an illegitimate copy of the game, it’s not in Bethesda’s best interest to take a gamble and call them out.

“The worst possible thing you can do…is put them in a position where you’re making them feeling like they better prove they have a legitimate copy”

“The worst possible thing you can do when someone calls and they’re having a problem with the game is put them in a position where you’re making them feeling like they better prove they have a legitimate copy,” said Hines. “Really bad response.”

That doesn’t mean they won’t call someone out, thought.

“You have to try and resolve their problem,” he explained. “If, in the course of doing that, you can determine that there’s something else going on there, then clearly you could call a spade a spade. But…you gotta be really sure before you imply that because people, rightfully so, get really pissed.”

Readers, can you see both sides to this complicated issue? As gamers yourselves, what recommendations do you have for Bethesda’s next game?

[W7RE]

GameTrailers TV Episode Last night.

Yes, with lots of Fallout 3 greatness

I've been on the fence about this game for a while, knowing that I'm an MMO junkie and have trouble taking the time for other games. After watching this GTTV video though I preordered from Amazon with release day shipping.

[Quemaqua]

The Bethblog reports that there will be a special hour-long X-Play on G4 tonight, at 8 eastern time (which means it's over already for anyone actually on the east coast), the second half of which will feature lots of FO3 footage and interviews.  I'd totally watch it if I got G4.

There's also a cool post on there with a bunch of the metro ads for the game if you haven't seen those yet.

[ScaryTooth]

Damn. It's looking sweet as hell. I'm pretty pumped for this game.

I'm just debating on weather to get the PC version or the XBox 360 version...

[Quemaqua]

Why is there even a question in your mind?  If you have the power for it, PC!  Mod tools will be forthcoming, I'm sure, and then you'll be kicking yourself for going console.

[ScaryTooth]

I'm leaning toward PC. I'm wondering if it was designed mainly for a console though. Sort of like Oblivion. I mean, it had a team working on the PC interface and such, but it did feel a little like it was made with consoles in mind.

I'll most likely get it for PC.

[Quemaqua]

Oblivion didn't have a PC interface team, as I recall.  They realized their mistake afterward and have said that FO3 will have more PC-specific attention as far as interface goes.  And while it won't ship with released mod tools, they said they want to release them soon.

[Xessive]

I'm definitely going PC with FO3, however, I do appreciate the console versions for people who don't powerful enough PCs.

I expect if I played it on a console I'd probably use VATS a heck of a lot more often.

[MysterD]

Oblivion didn't have a PC interface team, as I recall.  They realized their mistake afterward and have said that FO3 will have more PC-specific attention as far as interface goes.  And while it won't ship with released mod tools, they said they want to release them soon.

BTMod solved the Oblivion font-size problem....thank God!
I hope that don't happen again on FO3.

[Xessive]

BTMod solved the Oblivion font-size problem....thank God!
I hope that don't happen again on FO3.

BTMod was the first one out there. I think DarNified UI was the most comprehensive interface mod for Oblivion. If you get a chance give it a shot MyD

I also liked Immersive Interface.

I wonder how PC-friendly FO3's UI will be and whether or not people will feel the urge to mod it.

[ScaryTooth]

Skills

I'm trying to think of what my first guys skill set with be. Think I'm going to go with Small Guns, Sneak, and Science. Or maybe Unarmed, sneak, and medicine. I want to get that bad ass pneumatic glove so I can punch peoples heads off.

[Quemaqua]

I'm most likely going to choose Repair, Speech, and then either Energy Weapons, Big Guns, or Melee.  If the skills work basically like they did in the other games (and it seems from what I've heard that they do), I can probably upgrade one non-primary weapon type to 75%-100% without too much problem, so that'll give me enough options to stay happy (remember, Oblivion fans, you can't just play the game forever and up your skills forever... you cap at 20 and will eventually stop being able to upgrade skills).  I've been playing the other games using Repair and Speech in some capacity, so I want to see how those will play in the new game for direct comparison.

Also, for those who don't follow the diaries at fallout.bethsoft.com and the Bethblog, this level design diary is actually really interesting.  Some of the others are worth checking out, too.

[ScaryTooth]

I usually always play stealthy, thief type characters. But I'm kind of burned out on that. I think I may change it up a little this time around, and play something else. I want some stealthy abilities, but I'm going to go for more of a melee, close combat type guy. I want to get up into someones grill and own them up.

This requires more thought I think.

[MysterD]

All I know -- I'm gonna raise some hell, when this thing comes out!
Mwahahahahahahahahaha!

[ScaryTooth]

I dug out Fallout 2 to mess around with. I forgot how much fun this game was.

This made me even more excited for Fallout 3.

[MysterD]

Word is OXM gave the X360 version of FO3 a score of a perfect TEN

OXM Gives Fallout 3 a 10
Oct 18, 2008 at 4:17 PM - Robert "Apache" Howarth - 75 Comments

No Mutants Allowed has some excerpts from the Official Xbox Magazine's review of Fallout 3:

By now, you've probably noticed that we're giving Fallout 3 a big ol' score, so in the interests of quelling any outcry - no, this game is not perfect. In particular, we really wish that Bethesda had worked more on the dialogue system. In this post-Mass Effect era, it's disappointing not to hear yourself talk and to have to pick your dialogue options from big blos of text. Other quibbles: NPC chatter often overlaps in a confusing tangle, the third-person view is more than a bit crap, and we were always bummed that in such an otherwise-detailed world, no one noticed the corpses of their friends who we'd just stealthily killed. The biggest annoyance, though, is not being able to fast-travel unless you're outside - commuting sucks enough in real life, so we really resent it in our games!

Thanks Joel and Nina.

[Quemaqua]

Sounds fair.

Man ,if it wasn't for Dead Space, the wait would be killing me.

[wizall]

The critiques are minor enough for me not to give a fuck.  I'm going to own this game, in every sense of the word. 

[gpw11]

Is Deadspace out on PC yet, or just the consoles?

[Pugnate]

It is out on the PC, and it is highly recommended that you NOT buy it. The controls are broken beyond repair, which means they can't even be fixed with patches.

[Quemaqua]

Depends on who you talk to.  PCG didn't seem to hate them as much as some, and I'll bet if you use a controller it doesn't perform much differently from the console versions.  You should try to confirm that first, but that's the only thing I've heard is wrong with it... and if you can just use a controller, it shouldn't be a big deal.

[Pugnate]

http://www.pcgamerpodcast.com/?p=220#comments

Well here is what Dan Stapleton of PCG said on the podcast comments section: "There is definitely something wonky with the Dead Space mouse controls. They seem to have done something strange with the way it accelerates that makes it feel slow and floaty - it happens even in the menu screens, and with mouse sensitivity maxed out."

Apparently it makes clicking on objects that need precision nearly impossible, and what I read on IGN, it can't be repaired?

Still, you are right, we should read more on this before jumping to a conclusion regarding a fix.