Topic: Natal likely priced at less than $80

[Pugnate]

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17756/1/

[idolminds]

What they are going to need are some awesome games that can only be played with Natal. A simple pack-in game will be essential (think Wii Sports), and then something big people can buy. "Halo: Punch The Flood" or whatever. Both of these things are going to have to come from MS themselves, since I can't see 3rd party devs limiting their games to a fraction of the 360 base. They might throw in some extra gimmicky Natal extras, but most games are going to have mostly gamepad controls for a good long while.

I mean, if the history of console addons has taught us anything...

[iPPi]

To be quite honest I'm a little skeptical about this price rumor.  I mean, we've seen how expensive Xbox360 peripheral addons are.  Obviously, this is a little different so they might be able to do it since it is meant as a new input device.  We'll have to see. 

[beo]

yep. i think there is an overwhelming feeling of "jury's out" at the moment. if it is to be any kind of success, however, i think that price sounds fair.

they're going to have to promote the fuck out of this thing if it's going to have any chance - console bundles, cut price promotions, give aways and maybe even helping fund 3rd party stuff. every camera device for consoles, and even the wii's waggle stick got tired in a matter of minutes. i'm still interested, but it's going to be a tough sell.

[W7RE]

They're gonna sell it a low price point because they want to get it into homes. The larger hard drive and wireless adapter aren't needed for any games, but if they want people to buy Natal based games, they're gonna need to sell enough Natal units.

Either way I'm not sold. It's just another waggle variation, which I have no interest in. I doubt motion controls are the future. They're more of a road block keeping us from advancing real gaming. I also don't see Nintendo as "the winner" this generation. Sure they've got a lot of people using their stuff, but so do fitness centers, bowling alleys, public parks.

[Pugnate]

When the Wii was first shown, I was extremely skeptical of what I saw on the demos, but this could be special, who knows. Let's see...

[Ghandi]

I doubt motion controls are the future.

Maybe not for hardcore gamers, but for the casual (or non-traditional) gamer, motion controls are definitely the future.

[Pugnate]

Motion controllers can be the future if they work perfectly well. The Wii was a bit of a hack of a console.

I bet the adult games industry will be taking advantage of this.

[iPPi]

Well the Wii has the MotionPlus add-on now and the controls have dramatically improved.  Unfortunately, not enough games support the add-on so it feels like a futile attempt on Nintendo's part. 

I'm unsure about this major push to implement motion controls into games.  The only games I see using motion controls well are sports related games.  Everything else, I would rather play with a traditional controller.

[W7RE]

Maybe not for hardcore gamers, but for the casual (or non-traditional) gamer, motion controls are definitely the future.

Problem is, if you sell a game like Wii sports to a non gamer, are they just gonna say, "I still like the first one, what do I need another one for?"

Once a year or so my mom breaks out the NES and plays Rainbow Islands for a week or two straight. She plays through it repeatedly, and leaves it paused overnight. I tried to sell her on the new one for Wii and she wouldn't even watch the trailer. She has zero interest because she likes the first one just fine and doesn't care what they might add/change. Would you say Nintendo and Taito have made a lifetime customer out of her? Hell no, she plays one game and hasn't desired anything more in the 23 years since. (now THAT'S replay value lol)

On the other hand. Modern Warfare fans probably went apeshit when MW2 was announced.



All of this is why I compare Nintendo to companies that sell treadmills, pedometers, and run amusement parks. Sure they're making a shitload of money right now, but I see nothing guaranteeing that market won't get tapped out because of lack of interest in "a little bit more." It's like a second video game market, because the people making it successful are a completely different set of people from the ones who buy traditional games. It's like we've got 2 video game industries, one for normal games, and one for waggle. The more developers focus on waggle, the longer it takes to get back to the real games.

Remember when Activision thought music games were a gold mine? They bough all sorts of shit up and pumped out an offensive number of music games. Now the genre has dropped in earnings and activision is firing off music game devs and trimming down production. Imagine if all that money and manpower had been put toward more traditional games, instead of a genre who's bottom was about to fall out.



EDIT:
http://fury.com/2010/02/jesse-shells-mindblowing-talk-on-the-future-of-games-dice-2010/
Here's a interesting video from DICE 2010 about casual gaming. Somewhere around 8-10 minutes in he actually says that the key to a lot of these games is using "psychological tricks" to get people to spend money. Now I agree completely with the fact that all this stuff will make you shitloads of money. But I, as a long time gamer, have zero interest in most of it. Perhaps the world as a whole is just too stupid to resist a lot of this stuff? My friends werre obsessed with Mafia Wars at one time, but I saw a shallow text based game with no fun or interesting gameplay, and you had to pay real money if you wanted to advance much. My thoughts were, "fuck no", but it made a ton of money off people who went along with it.

[idolminds]

Remember when Activision thought music games were a gold mine? They bough all sorts of shit up and pumped out an offensive number of music games. Now the genre has dropped in earnings and activision is firing off music game devs and trimming down production. Imagine if all that money and manpower had been put toward more traditional games, instead of a genre who's bottom was about to fall out.

  It was a goldmine. They capitalized on a single formula with proven gameplay and popularity while making minor changes for each game in the series, and they sold a fuckton of copies with very little effort.

Now, guess if I'm talking about Guitar Hero or Call of Duty.

[Pugnate]

To be fair, each Call of Duty game was good quality. Even the worst installment in the series was a good product. They never felt like mere attempts at milking, and there was definitely a lot effort put into each one of them.

That's probably why CoD still commands more respect than something like Guitar Hero or Tony Hawk.

[idolminds]

Well yeah, I just tossed that in there as a joke. Activision made some serious bank of Guitar Hero. Can't really blame them for jumping on that train.

I don't know whos smarter, though. We "hardcore" gamers line up for another GTA, or another Halo, or another CoD, or another etc. while W7REs mom is still playing a 20 year old game. So while shes playing the same game over and over...aren't we kind of in a similar boat? Only our boat costs a lot more and theres a little more variety in the color of the deck chairs.

[gpw11]

Hands down, W7RE's mom wins. I'd have so much more bank if I had been playing the same game for the last 20 years.

[W7RE]

  It was a goldmine. They capitalized on a single formula with proven gameplay and popularity while making minor changes for each game in the series, and they sold a fuckton of copies with very little effort.

Now, guess if I'm talking about Guitar Hero or Call of Duty.

Guitar Hero 1 was released 5 years ago and the sales of music games are dropping.
Call of Duty 1 was released 7 years ago and the FPS genre is still growing.

In the long run, FPS will make more money. Actually, FPS popularity began with Wolfenstein 3D. That's 18 years of growth vs 5 years of plastic guitars. I'm not saying people can't make money off casual stuff. I'm just saying it seems to have less sustainability. In the end, when a casual focused game type drops off in popularity, who still going to be around buying games? The people who have been gaming for years, not the non-gamers who bought a Wii and 1-2 games. After that you need something drastically different and equally interesting to sell the non-gamers on. On the other hand Mass Effect 3 might not add much to it's formula, but it'll sell well because it's fun to an audience who will be gaming for a long time.


In monetary gain/loss, sure my mom wins. But in amount of fun pulled from the hobby of gaming, I win, because she plays for 1 week per year. I just wish talented developers would focus on me instead of her, because she's got what she wants. She's not buying again.

[MysterD]

  It was a goldmine. They capitalized on a single formula with proven gameplay and popularity while making minor changes for each game in the series, and they sold a fuckton of copies with very little effort.

Now, guess if I'm talking about Guitar Hero or Call of Duty.

I was going to ALSO guess Tony Hawk...
You know, before TH Ride...

[scottws]

Man.  I feel like it's the year 2000 and I'm back reading a bunch of fanboy BS on IGN's boards.

I don't understand the Wii hate, I really don't.  People seem to take it so personally that Nintendo has the gall to make something that doesn't cater to their hardcore gamer needs.

Personally, I think we're going to see a resurrection of simpler, lower-budget games.  Really it's already started.  Think of all the games on XBLA, PSN, and PC stuff like World of Goo, Gish, and Aquaria.  They aren't going to replace the big budget, Hollywood-style games, but there will be a bit of a renaissance where people realize that production values don't have to total in the tens of millions to make a game that is really fun that also has a really great art style and they get some attention.

As far as motion controls, I still think they have their place.  I think one of the best games on Wii is Super Mario Bros. Wii and I'd actually prefer if it had no motion controls, but I still have a good time playing Wii Sports with friends or family.

[W7RE]

I think one of the best games on Wii is Super Mario Bros. Wii and I'd actually prefer if it had no motion controls

I dunno, I think this is a perfect example of motion controls getting in the way. No they don't ruin the game, but they're in it because it's on the Wii, not because the game needs it.

[scottws]

Sorry, I wasn't clear about that at all.  What I meant to say is basically that I agree that motion controls don't make every game better and don't even really work intuitively in many games.  SMBW is an example on that side.  But I was also saying that motion controls have their place like in Wii Sports.

[Cobra951]

You seem to have a sore spot about the Wii for some reason.  The fact is that the thing still has less than 10 truly worthwhile games.  Another fact is that I have one connected to the very screen I'm staring at, and I'd like nothing better than to have a backlog of games for it that I'm eager to play.  Here's one more.  Sandy bought 2 of them, one for her and one for her mom.  I set both of them up, got them online.  I set up the Wii Fit board on hers.  Fun new toys, for about a week.  They haven't been turned on since January.

This is not fanboy talk.  This is observed reality.

[Pugnate]

Yea I agree. I don't get the "fanboy b.s." comment.

On one hand I do know my uncle's family (who aren't gamers by any means), love their Wii and play it a lot. It is just the sports game, but they are getting the full money out of the gimmick.

I am not sure if Nintendo was actually targeting the casual crowd, or if all of this was by accident.

I also can't say that my uncle's experience points to an actual trend. I haven't seen any scientific survey to suggest whether the casual crowd are actually using their Wii, or it is collecting dust.

[Quemaqua]

I bet the adult games industry will be taking advantage of this.

Pelvic thrust, GO!