Author Topic: FFXII?  (Read 55383 times)

Offline TheOtherBelmont

  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,340
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #80 on: Sunday, December 31, 2006, 03:46:38 AM »
I just beat the game and I can say this is the best FF game yet, IV, VI, and VII were my favorites and this one just had a little something more than all of those games.  My final time was probably around 90-91 hours since after you beat it, it doesn't tell you stats or let you make some kind of clear save file, so I'm going off of my save time before I went to the last boss.  I was going to wait just a little bit longer before I beat it, but the last two hunts kicked my ass and the other sidequests weren't nearly as fun as the hunts so I just decided I would beat the game and do the extra stuff later.  Looking at some FAQs, it looks like I only missed two espers, a few smaller sidequests, and the trophy hunts (apparently I only needed 25 more), so I nailed a good chunk of side stuff on my first playthrough.  Who knows what my final time will be after all the side stuff is complete, maybe I'll even hit the 100 hour mark.

I was getting really jaded about Square since after Final Fantasy X(I enjoyed FFX, but parts of the story were kind of lacking), FFXI was an online piece of crap and wasn't really a FF game, it just had the name.  FFX-2 was shit and just a way to milk FFX.  So by the time FFXII was first being shown I wasn't really too excited since 5 years had passed with me being pissed at Square.  I'm glad Square has not gone completely in the shitter yet like I thought they were going to and FFXII was the game to pull them out of the rut they were in and I am now eagerly looking forward to FFXIII because of it. 

For the first time in a long time, I wasn't just playing an FF game because of the story, I was playing because it was fun, the new battle system is great and isn't as mind numbing as the previous FF games and most of the side stuff, and there is a LOT of it, was all fun and not just grindfests.  Anyone who hasn't given this game a shot yet really needs to if you are even remotely interested in the FF games.  I have very few complaints about this game and they are all very minor, one being the ending and just the last few hours of the game, while it wasn't horrible, parts of it felt rushed, granted the story wrapped up nicely and was a very great story, parts could have used some backstory or elaboration.  The gambit system also needs some fine tuning, but this is the first game to use it, so mistakes are expected, the gambit system isn't horrible but it only a few tweaks away from being something even greater.  Other than the two issues I mentioned, I really have no complaints about the game and was very glad to have put the time into it.  If I were to give this game a score it would be a 9.8 out of 10, very close to perfect.

Offline PyroMenace

  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #81 on: Sunday, December 31, 2006, 04:02:01 AM »
Awesome. I enjoy FF games overall really. Though I'm not what you call a FF fanatic. Actually the only FF games Ive played through are VII and X and I absolutely loved them. Right now I am completely addicted to FFIII for the DS, I'm loving it at the moment and after I finish I have a copy of XII waiting for me.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #82 on: Sunday, December 31, 2006, 04:03:14 AM »
I second pretty much exactly everything tet said, though I haven't yet beaten the game.  But yes... you all owe it to yourselves to play it.  It's great on every level and I really hope I get back into it soon.  The novel has just been eating up all my time.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline PyroMenace

  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #83 on: Wednesday, January 17, 2007, 11:55:38 PM »
Well I think it's time. I finished FFIII a couple days ago. Its a great little game for being so old, it was nice to enjoy an FF game thats so close to the roots of it all. Still, it doesnt hold a candle to what FF games have now in terms of design and presentation, and after finishing FFIII, it only made me crave for another bigger and epic FF game. I even found an old FFX trailer that I loved which made me think back of how great FFX was when I played through it. So now this weekend will be solely devoted to FFXII, I hope it will be as great as the passed FF games I've played through.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #84 on: Thursday, January 18, 2007, 12:20:21 AM »
One of the best games ever, if you ask me.  I've been taking a break from it obviously, but now that I've been playing Vagrant Story again and am in a hardcore gaming mood, I think I'm going to start back at it.  I haven't been able to focus on writing much this week.  Think I need a break.

EDIT - It should be noted that I really fucking hate people.  They're so against change, so stuffed with swill that they're incapable of even appreciating anything good.  They've forgotten what it even means.  Why do I let myself read this stuff and get worked up about it?  It's really very stupid of me.  I shouldn't expect that anybody would recognize that Sakimoto's soundtrack has more in common with Debussy than Williams, or that the game's localization is the best I've ever seen in the history of translated video games, or that the story attempts (mostly successfully) to go places the series has never attempted to go.  No, why would anyone recognize any of that?  That's asking too much.  Of *course* Uematsu is god even when the one song he composes and records for the game is the worst fucking pile of crap on the soundtrack.  Of *course* the game's dialogue is cheesy!  I mean, Final Fantasy VI was the fucking pinnacle of dramatic storytelling what with the little monkey-boy jumping around everywhere.

* Quemaqua goes off grumbling in search of another glass of wine
« Last Edit: Friday, January 19, 2007, 12:17:31 AM by Quemaqua »

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline PyroMenace

  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #85 on: Thursday, January 18, 2007, 11:54:51 PM »
Bah don't get too worked up over it. Its not like the FF fanatical idiots have had flawless FF games throughout the whole thing like they make it seem. FFVIII created a huge bitchfest probably bigger than this one which centered around its story and theme. The FF games are always changing, its really nothing new.

Offline TheOtherBelmont

  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,340
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #86 on: Friday, January 19, 2007, 02:59:34 AM »
Bah, ignore the elitists and fanboys, let them be stupid.  Most of the idiot fanboys want a carbon copy of their favorite FF game and will bitch and moan about every other FF game till it happens.  The game sold well and got good reviews so if anything these fucktards opinions don't matter, if Square is paying attention at all, the sales/reviews are all that matters and I'm hoping that Square will stay on track and take all of the good elements from FFXII (mainly the gameplay) and incorporate it into FFXIII and make something even better.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #87 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 01:51:13 PM »
So I'd like to take this opportunity to demand that everybody take advantage of the sale at EB/GS and grab the Collector's Edition of FFXII for $30.  That's a steal and a half, and as I'm back at the game hardcore again, I demand everyone who hasn't give this game a chance do so now.  This is one of the greatest games of the last generation, and given that it came on the cusp of current gen, I have to say it beats the living daylights out of 90% of our current offerings as well.  If you've ever loved an RPG, give it a shot.  This is one of the best games I've ever played.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline wizall

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 257
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #88 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 02:16:57 PM »
Yeah, I ordered it yesterday along with Condemned and the Starcraft Battle Chest.  OW once again exerts great influence.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #89 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 02:56:36 PM »
Good.  =)  I put FFXII down for a while, but it wasn't due to a lack of interest in the game, just an inability to process information for a while.  My head is finally feeling a bit clearer, so I'm back.  About 86 hours in now, still loving the hell out of it.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline wizall

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 257
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #90 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 03:22:43 PM »
Yeah, I look forward to it.  It'll be the first one I tear into.  My only issue, as is often the case with me and RPGs, is that sluggish first bit where the story takes a while to pick up:  There's a high risk of me losing interest.  It's happened a few times, unfortunately, but I hope that isn't a problem here.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #91 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 03:48:40 PM »
Warning, I'm going to be gushing again here.

I think your success with FFXII's early parts will depend on what causes you to lose interest in most RPGs.  For me, I tend to lose interest if the world isn't interesting or multifaceted enough to fascinate me and push me forward to see more of it while the story is taking time to build up.  For instance, I couldn't manage to get through the opening sections of Knights of the Old Republic.  I was bored out of my mind.  This was due in part to my having seen the Star Wars universe plenty of times before, hence nothing was really new, and because I found the combat pretty dull.  Had the story opened up a bit earlier and had I managed to get off that first planet, I think I'd have been okay... but it took so stinking long I just couldn't hack it.  Tried twice, gave up both times.  There was some funny dialogue, some neat character interaction, and other stuff... but on the whole I just wasn't immersed well enough, I guess.

For FFXII, that wasn't the case at all. The story indeed builds slowly, but there's all kinds of crap to poke your nose into right off the bat, and the art design, general universe and fiction, localization, and music are all so top-notch it didn't matter to me at all.  I didn't even notice.  Also, it's a got a huge like 15-minute intro movie or something that sets the stage from a political and military standpoint (as well as an opening scenario you can play), so despite the humble beginnings of the "main" character (who really ends up being more of an equal partner with the rest of the cast as things progress), I enjoyed watching the effects of the game's outset as they came into play in the world I was exploring.

And it helps that there's so much stuff to do and explore.  It's still somewhat linear at the outset, but things are just really... big.  The opening areas feel pretty expansive and full of random stuff to find, and the city the game begins in is chock full of people to talk to (and political climates to acclimate yourself to), little shops to sift through, random nooks and crannies that hide interesting folks or stuff you didn't realize would be part of the game later.

So yeah, for me the game is more about the characters and the world.  The plot is by no means bad, but it's very political and grand in scope... so a lot of what really makes the game more personal and identifiable is the world itself and how the characters move around it, talk about it, etc.  I can say without hesitation that this is the most immersive console/J-style RPG I've ever played.  Most similar games suck me in strictly via story and character... maybe a bit with the art design if it's particularly unique.  This one is different, and it threw me off a little bit initially, but in a good way.  And I can't stress the success of the localization enough.  It isn't completely perfect, but this is hands down the best localization I have ever played.  There are a few times when the sort of period-speak they strive for falls a little flat, but for the most part everything is delivered convincingly and with humor when its needed.  The game feels like it was developed in English.  I mean, even your average natively-developed English game doesn't do this well with its text.

Do try to make it through the opening areas.  I hope they'll hold your interest even despite the story growing slowly, but try to let yourself get into the actual world.  Because really, that's where the story begins... with the politics, with the way the citizenry moves through the troubled times, the way people react to what's been happening to them.  You get to glimpse that first, and I think in the end it really was the right way to go for immersion's sake.  It gives you the proper context to care not only about the main characters and their desires, but also the societies being manipulated in the power struggles where the meat of the story takes place.  They don't drop that off an any point and say, "Okay, you care about the world now, so we don't need to show it to you anymore," so you'll continue to see places full of people who are forced to live with things as they are, but it's more poignant and interesting at the beginning.

Okay... I think I should really stop now.  Maybe I should have stopped a while ago... but I can never shut up about this one.  Maybe because I haven't been able to talk to many people who've played it.  I talked about it a bit with Tet when we were both playing, and that was mostly it.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline beo

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,480
  • ****
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #92 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 07:15:08 PM »
i played through from start to finish, and while i enjoyed a lot of it, i didn't find the story particularly immersive. i was waiting for it to pick up right until the end, and i don't feel that it ever really did. by the time i'd finished the game, i still had no connection with the characters, and didn't really care about any of their plights. i usually get so dragged into the story of final fantasy that it's the primary concern of the game to me, but it really wasn't the case this time.

the battle system was a lot of fun, with mist charge combos and an interesting gambit system. it had it's problems though. for starters, my characters were all pretty much maxed out on the grid by level 45. secondly, with the right combination of gambits, it was practically impossible to lose any battle. i beat the final boss first time through (which is a first for me in FF games), and didn't really have to think about any of the boss battles. i' don't claim to be anything close to an expert at these types of games, but it all did seem a bit too easy.

i don't mean to rag on the game too hard, because i did have fun with it - i just couldn't say that i was 100% satisfied. based on the story (which is the most important aspect of FF for me), i'd have to say that it's one of the weaker FF games i've played.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #93 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 07:40:11 PM »
I'd say it's a bit weaker in terms of story as well, though I still have enjoyed what's there.  And I think these are easily my favorite characters of any FF game, though you're right, you don't get to know them as well here as you do in some of the others.  Maybe it's sort of odd that I like them as much as I do.  They're just so much more believable to me than your average FF character, but that's probably also due to the fact that the story is more grounded and political, hence the characters fit that better.  FFX's characters felt too much like caricatures, and the earlier games were always too cartoony (except for FF8, I guess, but that had other problems).  But yeah, I'd still say your complaints are probably somewhat valid, but it's hard for me to judge because the world is what really grabs me about this one.  Ivalice is amazing, and so much more interesting than the other FF worlds that came before it.  I have affection for the settings of some of the other games, but not nearly the way I do for this one.

Also beo, did you do all the side stuff?  Finish all the hunts and such?  I can't imagine you claiming those were too easy unless you'd really overleveled yourself in order to tackle them.  I find the game is nearly perfect, difficulty-wise.  I think the story stuff is a bit too easy if you're finding lots of stuff to do on the side (hence getting your levels up a bit overmuch), but some of the hunts can get pretty rough.  Of course, I also have a tendency to try to tackle things slightly beyond my level, so that may have something to do with it.  I captured most of my non-story espers around 3 levels(ish) below what most people's recommended minimum levels were, and I get kind of bullheaded when beaten by something that's too hard.  I usually just get pissed and keep trying to kill it until I win.  But I feel like the hunts have been mostly perfect... nice and hard usually, but not ridiculous.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline TheOtherBelmont

  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,340
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #94 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 09:29:57 PM »
Oh yeah, I probably should have left an update, but about two or three weeks after I made that post about beating the game I went and bought the strategy guide and finished everything except for the Zodiac Spear I missed earlier on and my final playtime was 109 hours.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #95 on: Monday, May 28, 2007, 09:55:57 PM »
I'm at about 89 & 1/2 now.  I think it's going to take me a whole lot longer than 109 to finish everything I've got to go.  I really move slow when I find myself immersed in something.  I try to savor it.  I suspect I'll top this out around 130 - 150, depending.  The more breaks I take from a game, and I tend to take a few with a long RPG, the longer I'll take because I always have to remember what it was I was doing when I get back, then just grind for a little while to get back into the flow of things.

EDIT - Just got Cuchulainn!  Haha, that was awesome and fun.

(click to show/hide)

Also, I got my biggest quickening chain yet - 19.  Highest I've seen anyone post about was 27, but I think my record previous to this was like 15 or something.  I got the Black Hole, the best concurrence, and caused around 32k damage or so.  It would have been greater had it not been for the enemy, which was a highly-armored dragon hunt that had about 250k health.  That was a fun fight, too.  Decoy+Bravery+Protect+Berserk+Bubble+Haste... I think that's like my favorite combo.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 12:32:54 AM by Quemaqua »

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline JacksRag(e)

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 468
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #96 on: Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 12:55:51 AM »
Buh, I finally broke down and about Odin Sphere, FF XII, and Samurai Legend Musashi.  Then found out they had the collector's edition of FF XII for the same price as the regular copy of FF XII that I had bought.  Damn it.

Offline beo

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,480
  • ****
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #97 on: Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 09:47:34 PM »
Also beo, did you do all the side stuff?  Finish all the hunts and such?  I can't imagine you claiming those were too easy unless you'd really overleveled yourself in order to tackle them.  I find the game is nearly perfect, difficulty-wise.  I think the story stuff is a bit too easy if you're finding lots of stuff to do on the side (hence getting your levels up a bit overmuch), but some of the hunts can get pretty rough.  Of course, I also have a tendency to try to tackle things slightly beyond my level, so that may have something to do with it.  I captured most of my non-story espers around 3 levels(ish) below what most people's recommended minimum levels were, and I get kind of bullheaded when beaten by something that's too hard.  I usually just get pissed and keep trying to kill it until I win.  But I feel like the hunts have been mostly perfect... nice and hard usually, but not ridiculous.

no, i didn't do all the side stuff. i did a bunch of the hunts, and they were quite fun and yeah, they did tend to be a good bit harder than the main story stuff. the main reason i attribute to not doing them all was because the story moves as slow as molasses, and i felt with all the time i was sinking into the game, i should at least be getting somewhere. i'm not one of those completest final fantasy players, although i always kid myself that i'll go back and do all that junk once i've finished the main story.

speaking with someone else who has been playing it through recently, we both came to the conclusion that the most effective way to customize your characters is to have them all with white magic spells attached to gambits, and the strongest attack power weaponry that you can use. it wasn't so much of an intentional choice into over-tweaking characters, we both just found that it is infinitely (and very obviously) more effective than having, say, one green mage, one white mage, one black mage, one heavy hitter, one tech specialist, etc.

the fact that i completed the game is a testament to it's worth though (i hardly ever play a game from start to finish). some things it did very well. the hunts are an excellent addition, as is the new battle system. i just find it difficult to say that it compares with seven or ten, because it really didn't pull me into the experience the same way. there's no emotional attachment - which is what the entire final fantasy experience is for a lot of people, including myself. i mean, while the bad guys aren't nice, they don't seem nearly evil enough. it's more of a battle of agendas rather than good versus evil, which isn't all that inspiring as far as i'm concerned.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #98 on: Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 11:41:33 PM »
Call it taste, then.  I'm still liking that stuff pretty well.  Though I do hear you... I certainly felt more emotionally engaged with characters from other FF games.  I just happen to like these characters better.  It's like when you meet somebody and don't know them very well, but you're really interested in them and feel like if you get to know them better you'll really hit it off.  That's sort of how I feel about these people.  I don't make sense.

I'll agree with your assessment however.  It's really quite necessary to have everybody outfitted with white magic, and I think any player will learn that right quick or get totally trounced.  And you can go that route with weapons and equipment, but depending on what you're up against you can make things better for yourself by putting a little thought into it.  And you can sometimes tackle things at a lower level than you're "supposed" to.

But yeah, I love the hunts.  This whole game is like a giant package of boss fights.  That's something I can really get behind.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline beo

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,480
  • ****
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #99 on: Wednesday, May 30, 2007, 02:28:44 AM »
yeah, it's totally just a case of taste. there are some things that it does far better than previous final fantasy's, and some things that i consider are far worse. it all depends on how important each of those individual aspects are to you.

Offline gpw11

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7,182
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #100 on: Sunday, July 01, 2007, 08:48:52 PM »
I've been playing quite a bit this weekend since I'm house sitting and have little else to do.  Probably about 10-11 hours in and so far I like it quite a bit.  My main problem with it at this point is a problem a lot of people had with Vagrant Story; there's just too much to do early on.  You're thrust into dealing with the licence board, gambit system, and new battle system right from the start.  It's not really a flaw with the game at all, but just creates a bit of a learning curve.  I mean, my licence board is a mess.  I'm finding it really hard to keep track of what I'm doing and where I want to be going with it.  I basically just ended up hitting bunch of licences I totally don't need in order to open some quickining slots on some characters.  Think that will be a problem in the future or is it something you can overcome? 

Like I said, I'm enjoying it a lot, and it's probably the best direction they could have taken in order to make the series feel fresh again.  The Japanese "international" version does sound like it'll be much much better though since they're implimenting some wicked features (actual job system licence boards and ability to speed up battle). 

Anyone have any tips on licence character development?

Offline TheOtherBelmont

  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,340
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #101 on: Sunday, July 01, 2007, 09:36:52 PM »
I've been playing quite a bit this weekend since I'm house sitting and have little else to do.  Probably about 10-11 hours in and so far I like it quite a bit.  My main problem with it at this point is a problem a lot of people had with Vagrant Story; there's just too much to do early on.  You're thrust into dealing with the licence board, gambit system, and new battle system right from the start.  It's not really a flaw with the game at all, but just creates a bit of a learning curve.  I mean, my licence board is a mess.  I'm finding it really hard to keep track of what I'm doing and where I want to be going with it.  I basically just ended up hitting bunch of licences I totally don't need in order to open some quickining slots on some characters.  Think that will be a problem in the future or is it something you can overcome? 

Like I said, I'm enjoying it a lot, and it's probably the best direction they could have taken in order to make the series feel fresh again.  The Japanese "international" version does sound like it'll be much much better though since they're implimenting some wicked features (actual job system licence boards and ability to speed up battle). 

Anyone have any tips on licence character development?

Getting the Quickenings as early as possible is good and makes the game easier.  You might want to focus on one or two certain weapons for a certain character at first, but if you are like me and Que and do a bunch of the side stuff in the game you will probably fill up your entire license board with every character fairly easily, especially if you get that accessory for that doubles your license points on every character.

Offline gpw11

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7,182
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #102 on: Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 10:12:21 PM »
Yeah, it's actually filling out pretty good.  Now, did you guys kind of use everyone or stick to a certain party?  I'm getting my ass handed to me from time to time and it's really starting to be a bit of a pain in the ass.  Especially when you lose like 40 min. of progress. 

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #103 on: Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 10:34:54 PM »
I have issues with that stuff.  I always use everybody because I can't stand to leave people behind.  And with this game, you really have to until like level 40-50ish stuff. Then you can kind of focus on 3 people more, but I have trouble with that so I usually just keep upping everybody.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline gpw11

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7,182
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #104 on: Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 10:57:11 PM »
it works out for the most part I guess.  I'm at the mines just after the viera (?) village and died twice at two different parts.  Going in with a different strategy helped a lot.    Generally, Vaan is about level 25 right now, with the two sky pirates at around 20.  Basche is level 22, and Ashe and Penello are at 18.  Generally, I end up having to use at least two of my more powerful characters and one of the weaker during story quests (although for these mines I just used my three most powerful characters after dying the second time), adn then try to build the levels for the weaker ones during the grinds to the Mark Hunts and side quests.  It's hard to say if it's working or not.  I think it might just be a matter of getting over a hump for me and having enough skills and augment slots filled in order to make everything a lot easier all across the board.

The funny thing is that I usually die during the dungeon crawls and never really have problems with the big bosses.  Esper + as many quickens as I possibly can and swapping characters in for more usually takes care of the bosses without having to actually fight them. 

Offline gpw11

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7,182
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #105 on: Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 11:00:14 PM »
Oh, and I'm sure my gambit setup is a large part of the problem.  I've been pretty lazy with it.  I had two characters at all times using cura if any character went below 50% and one of those stealing from any enemy with 100%hp as a priority after that.  As you can imagine the end result was them getting a lot more attacks in then I was.  I'll probabbly alter that to have my weakest character on the field doing the stealing and all of the healing with a Curaga when any character gets below 30% or something.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #106 on: Tuesday, July 03, 2007, 11:52:22 PM »
Work a strategy out.  For stealing I find its best to do that manually and be more focused.  Once you steal stuff you dno't get anything from that enemy anymore and it's an easy one not to waste a gambit on.  And yeah, do like 30 or 40 percent for health maybe if that's safe for you, and use protect, haste, etc. liberally.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline gpw11

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7,182
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #107 on: Wednesday, July 04, 2007, 07:35:53 PM »
I forgot how much grinding in videogames sucks.  Seriously, you'd think that one of the ways they'd revamp RPGs wouldn't be to go back in time ten years gameplay wise.  You go from one dungeon to the next and the enemies jump like 5-7 levels and start handing your ass to you.  Lame, and it kind of makes me want to stop playing.

Offline TheOtherBelmont

  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,340
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #108 on: Wednesday, July 04, 2007, 09:12:34 PM »
I forgot how much grinding in videogames sucks.  Seriously, you'd think that one of the ways they'd revamp RPGs wouldn't be to go back in time ten years gameplay wise.  You go from one dungeon to the next and the enemies jump like 5-7 levels and start handing your ass to you.  Lame, and it kind of makes me want to stop playing.

You really don't have to grind much if you do some side stuff while you do the story.  I rarely ever had to grind except for the later hunts and sidequests towards the end of the game.  Doing the hunts is a good way to get your levels up.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #109 on: Thursday, July 05, 2007, 12:03:35 AM »
I did a little grinding just for stuff to make some money with, but I had a couple favorite areas where I'd just spend maybe 20 minutes or something, get my chain level all the way up, soak up some cash and goodies, then head back, sell it, keep doing whatever.  I didn't really grind for levels at all.  Like Belmont said, just do more hunts. Though those do tend to be a bit harder than the story bosses and such.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline gpw11

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7,182
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #110 on: Thursday, July 05, 2007, 04:40:19 PM »
That's probably it.  I did all the hunts I could at the start, but then stopped once things started picking up a bit.  I got through the part I couldn't last night, and it turns out that there was basically just two rooms with enemies that are much much harder then anything else in the dungeon.  Kind of whacked.  I also learned that equipment is much more important then having higher levels at this point...which is kind of whacked since you can't really buy much without chaining...through grinding.
 
Anyways, really good game, but I might stop playing.  It's not that I don't like it, but rather that I like it a bit too much.  I can't spend that much time playing it, especially when I might play for an hour, die and lose 20-30 min of progress.  I'm too goal oriented to just suck that up. 

Overall, I think it's probably the best in the series...but as a result of that the shitty things about final fantasy are really annoying when you're playing it.  The quickenings are alright, but  take way too fucking long to pull off anything that does decent damage.  Gets kind of tedious when you not only see the same three cut scenes per character every time you do it, but you see the same ones over and over again in a very short amount of time.  Summonings are pretty useless.  Again, the cut scenes for the esper special moves takes final fantasy long, and that blows. 

The battle system is great for a final fantasy series, and I hope they expand upon it in the future (positioning, maybe a bit more interactivity).  And the level of strategy required due to the gambit and license systems is a welcome addition.

Overall, I think the game may actually have been hurt by being Final Fantasy.  The story is great, a lot of the characters are awesome (Judges are awesome), and the art is sweet.  The entire atmosphere is what the game is really about, but I think it may have been a bit better if it didn't have to conform to fit in with the other FF games.  I thought for a while that Square had this good reputation, but because of the wrong guys and the wrong games.  Vagrant Story, FFXII, and FFT are their best recent things out there, yet the guys who kind of just rehash the same music, plots, and characters for all their games seemed to get most of the attention.  It's good to see that this game is so successful and maybe we'll see more from these guys in the future.

As it is, I'm probably going to at least give it a rest for a while and get some Valkyrie Profile 2 in. 

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #111 on: Wednesday, January 02, 2008, 03:15:20 AM »
I'm still going.  At about 94 hours now, still with plenty to do.  Buying a copy of Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings for DS totally inspired me to get back to trying the real game again.  Hasn't gotten old in the least, and now that my interest in other things has waned and my need for the game has been rekindled, I suspect I'll do another 10-15 hours or so before I crap out.  We'll see if that gets me to the end of the game or not, or if I'll continue to "save" it for when I've finished the rest.

EDIT - So I totally didn't call in sick to work today to play more, but uh... why not, right?
« Last Edit: Wednesday, January 02, 2008, 09:20:42 AM by Quemaqua »

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline gpw11

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7,182
Re: FFXII?
« Reply #112 on: Wednesday, January 02, 2008, 05:29:00 PM »
Interesting.  I liked parts of the game a lot, but my interest probably died out about 25-30 hours in.  Glad to see you're still enjoying it.

Offline Cobra951

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8,934
FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
« Reply #113 on: Friday, January 18, 2008, 08:48:38 AM »
Gotta vent here.  Beats the hell out of breaking something or getting into a fight with someone over some small annoyance, like the neighbor's barking dog.

This may be a spoiler, but I don't give a shit, because no one should be duped like this into a trap with no escape.  After about 2 hours of wondering around the Stillshrine of Miriam, I touch one of those waystones, which tells me it reacted to the Stone of the Condemner.  OK, what's that about?  Well, that's about being thrown in a pit, having all your magic taken away, and having all these assholes 20 times more powerful than you beat the shit out of you so fucking fast that you can't even use an item without dying.  I wonder how many Square fuckers laugh their asses off every time another victim falls for their little joke.  Ah, SO!  Bad ruck!  Hahaha!  No save point.  I never pass those up.  Motherfuckers need to die a horrible death.  Bring back the Manhattan Project and the Enola Gay.

Offline Pugnate

  • What? You no like?
  • Global Moderator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 12,244
    • OW
Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
« Reply #114 on: Friday, January 18, 2008, 09:03:20 AM »
I am sorry, but I laughed really really really hard.

Not at the cruel situation, which I am sure would have pissed me off as well. Just your so very passionately angry reaction.

  Ah, SO!  Bad ruck!  Hahaha!  No save point.  I never pass those up.  Motherfuckers need to die a horrible death.  Bring back the Manhattan Project and the Enola Gay.

At that point I was reading that in the voice of Gotham's most notorious villain, the Joker.

Anyway that obviously must really suck. I am actually going to look up "Stone of the Condemner" on google now.

edit:

Why are you playing FFXII? Also I can hunt down these developers for you.

So let me get this straight. Basically as a practical joke, all your stuff is taken away and you can't access save points, and must fend off these uber powerful baddies somehow to get to save your progress?

Offline Cobra951

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8,934
Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
« Reply #115 on: Friday, January 18, 2008, 09:13:49 AM »
Hahaha!  I obviously don't really want to nuke Japan all over again.  I was just letting off steam.  I can't prove that it's someone's idea of a sick joke.  That it's immensely unfair, there's no doubt.  Basically, I lost 2 hours of my life, 2 hours of leveling up, getting license points, collecting loot, finding new areas, working on licenses and gambits, learning new techniques, and I think 2 recurve crossbows I ran across somewhere are history too--I'll have to check on that when I can turn on the PS2 again without slamming it into the wall behind it.  In this game, you lose absolutely all progress since your last save when the party is all killed.  This particular room was completely unexpected, and unlike the other difficult boss rooms, there's no ominous FMVs or a telltale save point just outside.  There was no way to tell that certain death lies ahead.

Edit:  I'm playing FF XII because Que made me want to, and eventually gave me the game as a gift!  What a guy, eh?  It's really an absolute must if you like JRPGs at all.  This knocks my appreciation of it down a peg, but I was already way up on those pegs.  No way I'm giving up now.

Offline TheOtherBelmont

  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,340
Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
« Reply #116 on: Friday, January 18, 2008, 01:22:00 PM »
If I remember correctly, I think there is a hidden Esper in that area you can get after you beat one of the judges after you have completed the main objective in the Stilshrine of Miriam(you're there to get the Greatsword, right?), so you might want to come back there later when you are a little more leveled up.

Offline Cobra951

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8,934
Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
« Reply #117 on: Friday, January 18, 2008, 04:18:45 PM »
Yes, I figured as much, after it was too late.  Woops!  You can tell right away when you step into an area you're not ready for.  Normally, you can high-tail it back out.  But this was a boss room.  Door locks behind you.  Too bad so sad.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
« Reply #118 on: Friday, January 18, 2008, 08:26:01 PM »
Yeah, that's not good.  I'm pretty sure there are two difficult enemies there that sort of signal you aren't supposed to go any further, but you may not have recognized them as such.  In either case, I didn't have the problem you did.  I beat the dungeon, then went out, saved my game, and went back in again.  Since this game is a bit more open than your average JRPG, and since it does take some cues from MMO stuff, you can expect that there will be circumstances where you can accidentally wander into something you aren't quite cut out to handle yet.  Generally speaking, you can just run the fuck outta' there, but I guess in that one you couldn't.

And Cobra, if it makes you feel any better, I've been playing the game for over 112 hours now and I *still* haven't gone back to fight that dude because I'm still not sure I'm ready (the guy himself is one problem, but he spawns a ton of high level mobs which are pretty horrible too).  So I can understand why you feel so bad about getting creamed, because you probably got really hardcore creamed like I did when I went in there.

For the most part, I can say that I don't remember any other area of the game being like that exactly, but there have been a couple points where I was at least half as frustrated as you because I got so close to winning a fight and died, or because there just wasn't a save point quite close enough to something and I felt like I lost too much time.  I stopped playing the game a bit ago because there was a particular hunt that didn't have a save nearby, and I tried it and lost twice even though I got close both times, but it was just too time consuming to be anything other than frustrating.  Of course, there *was* a save nearby, and I sort of knew it, but there was a challenge that had to be completed before it opened up, and the reason I got myself in trouble was mostly because I was being stubborn trying to beat this hunt before I beat the other challenge.  I get like that sometimes, especially with this game.  I tilt at windmills a bit too much just because I sort of find it fun when I actually do manage to overcome something that's technically too powerful for me (I've managed a few... it's always satisfying).

Anyway, I don't think there's too much beyond that one spot where you can really get into huge trouble like that, though it's possible in a few circumstances to wander into things.  I've done so much, it's hard to remember anything specific now.  I just know that it wasn't really an issue for me, so that's the best I can tell you.  Just keep in mind that the world is still explorable for the whole game, so there are a lot of times when you might find something that's too rough because it's intended to be a later challenge.  This isn't like other JRPGs that suddenly cut you off from things or have tons of stuff you can "miss".  There are sort of a couple of the latter, but not really too much.  Mostly there are a couple loot items you can just sell that actually have a use later (if you only have 1 of something, check online to see if it has a purpose before you off it, and it might help you to read a loot FAQ if you intend to unlock all the bazaar items and stuff.. it can be a little tricky).

Anyway, if you're in doubt about an area, stick to a path you know or think is safer and just try to get it done and find a save... once you know where a save is and that you have ready access, then go back.  Generally delving really deep into dungeons and stuff will bring harder challenges... pretty much always.  So be careful going deep into the Garamscythe Waterway, the Zertinan Caverns, the Sochen Cave Palace (I don't think you can get into too much trouble there without specifically looking for it later, though), Barheim Passage, either of the mines... a lot of the time stuff is locked off from you until later, but not always.  The Waterway and Zertinan Caverns are good examples.  I got into trouble I wasn't ready for in both of those places, though I was LOOKING for trouble in the former and was able to run away from the latter.  Oh, and if enemies are super tough, take that as a warning that something even nastier is probably lying in wait.  If you ever see a pair of guardians like were guarding that gate thing at the Stilshrine, just come back later.  The game seems to mostly find ways to warn you if there's bad stuff ahead.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8,934
Re: FF XII just pissed me off worse than any game for years
« Reply #119 on: Saturday, January 19, 2008, 02:29:23 AM »
Oh, yeah.  Those big, death-casting mages were orbiting the waystone (or portal in the stillshrine--same function, but local, like the Moogles in Rabenastre).  I routinely need to revive characters when I fight them.  Tried buffing with Reflect, and it didn't do much good.  Thing is I was repeatedly taking them on to level up and to see if I could steal something good, so their use as a warning totally went over my head.  They were an expected part of the scenery.

That "mob" you mentioned appeared in a big hurry.  Believe me, I tried to fight as well and as smartly as I could.  I even added to the gambits, because technicks are allowed, but not magicks.  (E.g., If HP=critical, First Aid, plus get everyone licenses for First Aid.)  I tried using Hi-Potions.  I tried using Phoenix Downs.  It was all futile.  Any attempts at healing or reviving took too long for the intensity of the carnage.

As I said, I can tell pretty quickly when I wander into an area I'm way too weak for.  Last one was the Necrohol of Nabudis.  I ran into this big fiery bomb boss, and I thought I had to take him on.  (Save point just before.  See?  They need to be consistent.)  After a very long battle where I was micromanaging every step, I managed to beat him.  I think if I hadn't had an Icebrand sword and a Fire shield, it would never have happened.)  That guy was way strong.  I went on from there, and found both ways (Necrohol and something else I can't remember) to be above my abilities.  So I went back and talked to the Moogle by the save point again.  He pretty much says "don't go that way".  I guess I just need to pay more attention.  I think I got confused because when I first talked to him, he was down another path.  I thought he meant there's no more lazy moogles to find that other way.  Heh.

I did go into the Zertinan caverns too early.  Went back later to kick some Slime butt.  :)

Edit:  Oh, and I found out who gives out Recurve Crossbows.  I ended up stealing 4 of them, after I got over my temper tantrum.