Topic: Mass Effect 3 to be more of an RPG?

[gpw11]

Okay, I thought maybe I was in the minority and had imagined that everyone else has been blown away by how much better of a game ME2 was over ME1.  It's almost like these are just hipster gamers hating on shit because they know it's popular and people like it.

Also, for the PC version at least, I had a feeling that there'd be some backlash over the Origin thing.  I mean,  I can see where they're coming from:

Steam:  Preorder now, get 5-15% off and that bonus game you get with the preorder?  You get it right now.

Origin: Preorder now for full price and we may or may not mail you a code for that bonus game in the future. It depends on whether or not there's enough steam to get a class action suit rolling (WHERE IS MY BATTLEFIELD 3 CODE, YOU FUCKS?)

Digital distribution has problems, as do these platform type services, but Valve runs their shit a lot more customer friendly than EA is doing out of the gate.

Okay, start throwing down your Origin names so we can MP. 

[Xessive]

Honestly, I think the elements that they did away with in ME1 were some of the worst parts of that game. The millions of pieces of weapons and armour, for instance that were all repeats or at least functionally the same.  That's just me, however.  

So, really - who's playing this on PC?

I'm on PC with this. Add me on Origin when you get a chance.

EDIT:
Origin name: Xessive

[scottws]

ME2 was a huge improvement over ME1 in almost every way.  2 minute elevator rides?  No thanks.  People who seriously contend that ME2 ruined the series or whatever need to hop off the nostalgia train.

I played 1 and 2 back-to-back, so there is no nostalgia here.  I thought 1 was a better game in most ways.  I could see how some didn't like the rover sections, so they got rid of those and replaced them with that ridiculously tedious and stupid planet scanning.  Not to mention that the story in 1 was better.

[Cobra951]

I played 1 and 2 back-to-back, so there is no nostalgia here.  I thought 1 was a better game in most ways.  I could see how some didn't like the rover sections, so they got rid of those and replaced them with that ridiculously tedious and stupid planet scanning.  Not to mention that the story in 1 was better.

Agree completely.  I liked 2 overall, but it was a disappointment as a sequel expected to surpass the original.  And I liked the rover, dammit.  That jump tank they replaced it with, and the very limited scope they saddled the world with while you use it, sucked.  I was incensed that I could never save the game while using it.  It felt like getting thrown into an arcade game all of a sudden.  Into the lava?  TOO BAD!  Start over from the beginning, including any weapons loadouts and level ups for your squad.

[scottws]

Jump tank?  I don't remember that at all.  Was that part of the DLC or something?

I liked 2, don't get me wrong.  But I felt that 1 was a better game overall.  One thing that bothered me about 2 was that they changed bits of the interface and they really stood out when moving directly from one game to the next.

[Pugnate]

I respect the two of you when it comes to opinions on game so it boggles my mind that you liked 1 more than 2. 1 for me was broken. As a game it was a 7/10 for me. Maybe one of Bioware's worst games aside from Jade Empire.

I am going to play 1 again so I can play 2 and then 3. Maybe there is something I missed.

[shock]

^^ Ditto.  Maybe I should play 1 again for some context.  I remember a fantastic story, but tedious gameplay and occasional moments of serious frustration.  Perhaps I'm guilty of liking 2 more because it was more recent. 

[Pugnate]

The gameplay was just broken. It was like they took dice roll mechanics for a melee game and tried to slap them in a shooting game. So it was like you were shooting but there was dice roll so it was all VERY ridiculous and frustrating and stupid.

[Cobra951]

Jump tank?  I don't remember that at all.  Was that part of the DLC or something?

I liked 2, don't get me wrong.  But I felt that 1 was a better game overall.  One thing that bothered me about 2 was that they changed bits of the interface and they really stood out when moving directly from one game to the next.

Oh, it's called the Hammerhead.

I didn't realize it involved DLC, but it's included with a new copy of the game on the Xbox.  There's a card with a code in the box, which lets you get several things from the EA network, directly from the main menu of the game.  It was a good deal of stuff, which included a new character for the party, new missions, new armor, new heavy weapons, and I guess this Hammerhead.

My impression of ME2 is that it was a smaller and more simplistic game than 1, despite being on twice as many discs.  It went like this:  Intro setup, get your bearings, find each character, help each character (to get his loyalty), go after the bad guys, win the game.  Skill trees were a very elementary affair, with none of the hard choices and specializations from the first.  Silly planet scanning instead of actually landing and hunting for resources has already been mentioned.  Combat and shooting, yes, definitely better in 2.  They had to improve something.  It was a very fun shooter indeed.

[scottws]

For me, story is big.  I remember the original Startcraft very fondly not because of its gameplay or multiplayer, but because of its story.  And for me it is simple that ME1 was better than 2 for this reason alone.  2 had a lot of characterization, but not a great story overall.  At least not compared to the first.

[gpw11]

I enjoyed the first game immensely when I first played it:  The atmosphere and story were great, but often found the combat/dungeons/and character progression to be pretty dull and tedious.  It's funny, because I didn't really realize that until I played the second game, which (as was pointed out), was a lot weaker, story wise, but seemed to be improve on pretty much everything else from my perspective. 

Sure, it was a lot more "linear" in appearance, but the first game just kind of gave you the illusion of making your own path. And the rover missions?  Cool for about the first three, and then very, very tedious.

I can see where you're coming from, but I certainly found the second (and now the third) more engrossing. To each their own, I guess.

Also, addicted to the MP in the third.  Oh, and Vanguard kicks ass in single player now. Carry a light load and spec for quick power recharge: blast in, fire ammo shotgun, fire ammo shotgun, weird biotic ground pound, and then heavy melee anything left standing with a fist of dark energy to the face.  aaaaaaand blast out right away if you need to.  So satisfying.

I've literally cleared rooms by blasting from mofo to mofo.

[nickclone]

After hearing all of the hype, I got ME1 for the 360. Good game, but there are some things that really annoy me:

1. The elevator rides suck, sometimes they put some type of conversation while you're going up or down. Most of the time I get on the elevator and go to the bathroom or check facebook real quick.

2. Sometime I'll walk around and get randomly stuck for no reason. This should be a reason for me to have to save often.

3. Decryption is stupid. I've pressed the right button at the right moment plenty of times and still failed it. That wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to save before opening it and then loading that save again if I fail. I hope this changes in ME2.

4. I don't like driving around in the vehicle at all, its really clunky and I just really don't like it. I especially don't like those worm things that randomly pop up. The reviews I read talked about how crappy they were, but I didn't realize it until I experienced it first hand. I find it odd that the rover can flip all around, land out of a spaceship without a parachute, take a direct rocket blast, but can't survive one hit from a giant sand worm.

[scottws]

The elevator ride thing must have been a console problem.  They were present on PC, but I don't remember them being very lengthy or annoying.  I liked the conversations that took place between Garrus and Wrex during these sequences.

The rover wasn't the greatest thing in the world, but it was so much better than planet scanning.  I loathed scanning.  Every time I did it I wondered why they didn't just dumb it down to the point where you just press "probe" and a probe would automatically go around and find all the resources without you having to tediously move the cursor around and look for a spike in signal.

In any case, it's pretty clear that people disagree and that's fine.  I played and loved ME1 and I played and loved ME2 right after.  I just loved ME2 a little less because of the story.  It was very Matrix: Reloaded, not contributing very much to the overall story of the series.

[MysterD]

Oh, boy...here we go...

[sirean_syan]

Having the DLC and seen the content, I think it's pretty shitty that it wasn't included with the standard edition of the game because it shakes things up a fair bit from a story standpoint, touches subjects at the core of the story, and is well integrated into the game proper. The way the character works within the game is far more seamless than any of the ME2 extras and I had I not known it was DLC I wouldn't have thought it was part of the original game. Either that means it was just made very well or it was part of the original game and pulled for some asshole reason. Given all the extra crap attached with EA nonsense I would guess the later.

[MysterD]

SPOILERS ARE IN THIS LINK:
IGN -> Mass Effect Series - Romance Guide.

[Cobra951]

Oh, boy...here we go...

Lying liars.  Oh well.  I needed a break from the franchise anyway.  When the DLC-that-wasn't is included, or when the game is so cheap that buying it plus the DLC still adds up to a good price, I'll pick it up.  I got ME2 for $20 at Best Buy like a year after release anyway, so it will be par for the course.

[scottws]

Yeah, I got both ME1 and 2 for $10 each.  I didn't get any of the DLC for 2 though.

[gpw11]

Lying liars.  Oh well.  I needed a break from the franchise anyway.  When the DLC-that-wasn't is included, or when the game is so cheap that buying it plus the DLC still adds up to a good price, I'll pick it up.  I got ME2 for $20 at Best Buy like a year after release anyway, so it will be par for the course.

Honestly, that's probably the most reasonable route to take.  I still find it hilarious how much people are complaining about everything to do with this game. 

[Cobra951]

Yeah, I got both ME1 and 2 for $10 each.  I didn't get any of the DLC for 2 though.

The DLC I got for 2 was all part of the package for a new copy of the game, standard edition.  I don't know if it was that way all along or not, though.  All I care about is that I didn't pay anything extra.

[gpw11]

I actually ended up buying Lair of the Shadow Broker, Kasumi's Wish, and The Arrival for ME2 before getting back into three.  It wasn't cheap (probably $20 for all three), and it wasn't easy (three separate transactions due to the way the pricing works with Bioware points on PC), but I loved the game and wanted to get back into it a bit before the third came out.

Was it worth it?  Maybe.  I got quite a bit of enjoyment out of it, but it was probably only 5 hours of game-play all in. I'd say that DLC is rarely worth it from my experience there.

Anyway, this game is turning out better and better.  Some epic choices come up....and my Vanguard Sheppard is pretty much invincible in the most badass way possible.

[nickclone]

The elevator ride thing must have been a console problem.  They were present on PC, but I don't remember them being very lengthy or annoying.  I liked the conversations that took place between Garrus and Wrex during these sequences.

The rover wasn't the greatest thing in the world, but it was so much better than planet scanning.  I loathed scanning.  Every time I did it I wondered why they didn't just dumb it down to the point where you just press "probe" and a probe would automatically go around and find all the resources without you having to tediously move the cursor around and look for a spike in signal.

In any case, it's pretty clear that people disagree and that's fine.  I played and loved ME1 and I played and loved ME2 right after.  I just loved ME2 a little less because of the story.  It was very Matrix: Reloaded, not contributing very much to the overall story of the series.

Don't get me wrong, I still really like the game. Its just that it makes me wonder if the game testers said anything or were even listened to when they gave this game the run through.

[scottws]

Sorry, I just didn't have the experience you did.  I thoroughly enjoyed the game in its entirety.

[MysterD]

Former ME Designer defends Day One DLC.

When BioWare revealed day-one single player DLC for Mass Effect 3, players were up-in-arms about how content had been cut for the sole purpose of making more money. But is that really true? Christina Norman, former designer and programmer of the Mass Effect franchise (currently at Riot Games), presented a one minute rant at Game Developers Conference, asking consumers to simply "judge our games based on what they are."

"There's no point in releasing DLC a year after your game has come out when most people have already sold your game back to GameStop three times," she told the audience. "That means getting it out early; that means even day-one DLC. That is a terrible thing to some players. Players rant--they know nothing about this DLC that's coming out except its name. But then it's 'oh this game must be incomplete, the game must be ruined.' Game developers are not evil. (Some are evil.) But most are not evil."

"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a chance. Judge our games based on what they are. Judge the DLC based on what it is. Stop thinking you're a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content."

[Pugnate]

Why are we reading PR nonsense? If it was coming one year later we'd have a perfectly good PR spin on it too.

[MysterD]

Shacknews -> BioWare on clarifying on MP in relation to the game's endings.
I'm throwing this in Spoiler Tags, in case you don't want to know about how to deal w/ MP and SP for trying to the better to best ending...

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BioWare clarifies Mass Effect 3 'multiplayer in relation to the endings'
by Jeff Mattas, Mar 09, 2012 12:45pm PST
Related Topics – Mass Effect 3, xbox 360, BioWare, PlayStation 3, Electronic Arts, PC

Progressing through the overarching campaign of Mass Effect 3 affects two primary statistics that impact the "end-game" players will receive: "Galactic Readiness," and "Effective Military Strength." Shortly after the game's release, some confusion arose about Mass Effect 3's multiple endings--specifically what one would need to do to achieve the game's "best" ending. Numerous claims from users arose, who believed that it wasn't possible to be completely prepared for the game's finale without boosting "Galactic Readiness," which can only be accomplished by playing the multiplayer component (or the iOS game, Infiltrator). Not true, says BioWare.

"You do NOT have to play multiplayer to get the best single-player endings," the official statement on the BioWare forums notes.

"Effective Military Strength" is the statistic that determines a player's success during Mass Effect 3's end-game. Collecting "War Assets" during the single-player campaign boosts this rating. Furthermore, there are more assets that can be collected than are necessary, but a certain threshold must be reached to get the "best" ending.

"Galactic Readiness," on the other hand, isn't even impacted by the single-player campaign at all, but increasing the stat by playing multiplayer (or Infiltrator) will reduce the number of War Assets one needs to collect in the single-player campaign to be successful.

"If you play a lot of multiplayer, you will need less War Assets from single-player to fill up your [Effective Military Strength] bar (i.e. it will balance out the requirements to account for you playing in both modes)," senior marketing manager Jarrett Lee states.

In summary, "Effective Military Strength" is the stat that determines Mass Effect 3's end-game proceedings, and it's a stat that "can be maximized via collecting War Assets alone, even if your Galactic Readiness is 50%."

[MysterD]

Why are we reading PR nonsense? If it was coming one year later we'd have a perfectly good PR spin on it too.

To see what kind of stupidity people come up w/.
Why don't PR department just be real and honest and say, "Yeah, we put out Day-One DLC; we put DLC on disc - now, if you want full experience, buy the DLC too and support us."
I mean, it's not ME3 is say 5 hours short, like some OTHER games...

EDIT:
GameSpot -> Kevin VanOrd article - "Why Do You Hate Mass Effect 3?"
Kevin's article on trying to figure out why there's so much different kinds of hate on ME3 currently.

[MysterD]

BioWare -> Chris Priestly of BioWare posts a fan-made workaround for importing faces throughout the ME series on the PC.

[gpw11]

Why are we reading PR nonsense? If it was coming one year later we'd have a perfectly good PR spin on it too.

I don't think there's any spin on that at all.  It was a pretty blunt "this is why we do this" statement.

[Xessive]

I don't know why somebody would be "hating on" ME3. Mass Effect has been getting progressively better with each iteration. It's not perfect, of course, but it's pretty damn good.

I love ME1, ME2, and now ME3. ME1 had the advantage of breaking new ground and setting our expectations for the series.

[Cobra951]

No hate here.  I hate lying liars, and I hate game content getting yanked and then sold as extra or included in an overly expensive edition only.  That is plain old greedy bullshit, which I want to blame on EA and not Bioware (which may be wishful thinking on my part).  But I love the games themselves so far.  Yes, I loved ME2.  The disappointment I mentioned was a relative feeling, based on expectations after the first one, and after all the accolades for 2.  I expect to love 3 as well, as soon as I don't get ripped off by buying it in its current intentionally incomplete or overpriced state.

[MysterD]

Forbes -> Video shows ME3 DLC Character is on the disc and article about ME3 "From Ashes" DLC.
They're not sure if the entire DLC mission for Javik is on the disc, though.

[Xessive]

No hate here.  I hate lying liars, and I hate game content getting yanked and then sold as extra or included in an overly expensive edition only.  That is plain old greedy bullshit, which I want to blame on EA and not Bioware (which may be wishful thinking on my part).  But I love the games themselves so far.  Yes, I loved ME2.  The disappointment I mentioned was a relative feeling, based on expectations after the first one, and after all the accolades for 2.  I expect to love 3 as well, as soon as I don't get ripped off by buying it in its current intentionally incomplete or overpriced state.

Yeah, I agree that is shitty in any case. I feel a little hypocritical having bought the Digital Deluxe edition myself.

[sirean_syan]

Well, that's done. My thoughts on the ending. I'm trying to be vague without giving specific details, but better safe than sorry.

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I'm glad a played the game and the series, but damned that was a pretty unsatisfying ending. It was a great lead up with some good stuff happening which made it seem like the game would have a some umph in the end, but then the last 10-20 minutes was one giant misstep. It forgot a lot of what made the universe awesome and went for some a big chunk of uninteresting bullshit. They tried to explain the Reapers in the space of a breath and then wrap everything up in a way that more or less erased everything that lead up to the end.

They really would have been better off trying to keep things simple and then the ending was a rundown of how the universe turned out after all your actions. They could pull some heart strings with characters you've gotten attached to, show that some races didn't quite make it out of the war alright, and then others coming out even better. The Reapers didn't need to be explained, they were just a way to push the story about the races along and how Humanity came to their place among that.

Oh well. I understand a lot of the bile that Bioware's getting over the game. It's not as bad as a lot of people would like to say and generally the game itself is right up there with ME2, but it's hard not to come away not feeling let down. I suspect Bioware's in for a rough couple of years thanks to this and Dragon Age 2. Hope they have some tricks up their sleeves.

Edit:

(click to show/hide)

Also, having what is effectively an ad to continue the adventure with upcoming DLC isn't the last thing you want players to see before cutting to black. Who's stupid idea was that?

[gpw11]

How many hours did it take you to finish it?  And I'm totally not reading the spoiler text at all, but I HAVE pieced together a few things about the ending from the general, spoiler free, reaction to it -I've steeled myself and am just pumped on how much fun I'm having with the game as I'm playing it.

They did manage to squeeze some pretty cool things in that are at least partially dependant on your decisions in the first two games, and I honestly thought that they'd end up coping out more than that, just because of the logistics of doing it. But, time will tell if my reaction to that changes, I guess.

[sirean_syan]

My clock said 40 hours, but I don't think that's right. I left the game running and walked alway several times for, sometimes, hours at a time. I would guess it was more on the order of 25ish-30ish hours.

But yeah, I was really impressed with how they were doing all sort of callback to choices I made over the previous two games. Even if some of it was window dressing or a throw away comment, they were nice touches that made things feel cohesive.

[Xessive]

I haven't finished it yet. I've spent quite a bit of time in multiplayer! It's pretty addictive and I love how the structure encourages cooperation for success. The support-oriented classes play a critical role when you're up against bosses/mini-bosses.

We gotta play some time

[gpw11]

Yeah, I've been pretty addicted to MP as well.  They've come up with a good system there.  Oh, and Vanguards are just as fun (and fucking shit kickers) in MP.

[beo]

definitely. i've been playing as vanguard throughout the series and totally love it - sometimes you can end up in awkward situations, but most the time you're just boosting all over the place knocking people through the air. i can't imagine playing as any other class.

[shock]

Too scared to read the last bunch of replies for spoilers.  But I started playing through ME1 again last night.  Going to go through both games again before starting 3.  And hopefully by the time I finish them, there will be a price drop.