Topic: Redneck neighbor

[scottws]

Alright, need some advice on how to deal with a redneck neighbor.  I live in a middle class neighborhood in a small cape cod house.  While there are a few shady residents, the visual appeal of the neighborhood overall is pretty good.  For the most part the residents at least respect the property values of not only their own property, but that of their neighbors.

Well about a year ago a nice old lady with a great house moved to a retirement home.  Her house was sold to a bunch of rednecks.  I was able to tolerate the pillows stacked up in the large front window instead of shades or blinds.  I was able to accept what was once a fantastic front yard into one of the crappier yards on my street that is 25% mud now.  I was (barely) able to tolerate the basketball hoop that uses a small pile of various concrete and ceramic pieces and a canvas tarp previously used as a drop cloth for painting as a counterweight instead of the base being filled with water.  I was able to tolerate the large fallen branch from a windy day that spent 8 months laying in their yard right next to the street.

But last week came the straw that broke the camel's back.  There is now a sign screwed into this family's tree in the front yard.  The sign is made out of a folded cardboard box and says "Cheap car detailing" written in crayon.  Only the phone number is legible because all the other colors blend in with the brown, but the phone number doesn't even fit on one line.  The last two numbers are on the next line.  The guy is out there all day with no shirt on with a bunch of noisy pressure washers washing peoples' cars.

Now I need some advice on an effective method to deal with this without making my life a daily feud.

Here's some stuff I came up with:

* Tear down the sign every time they put it up, possibly including ripping it to shreds and leaving it on their front porch.  Downside here is that it seems at least one member of this family is up at any given time and they always hang out in the front room and have a dog that barks at strangers.

* Write a somewhat cordial letter where I encourage them to take pride in themselves and respect their neighbors and the visual appeal of the neighborhood and tape it to their sign.

* Get a coalition of neighbors that are sick of their redneck ways and confront them.  I don't think this would work because people don't just change.

* On garbage night, dump one of their cans of garbage on the basketball hoop counterweight and leave a note that says "Thought you could use some more random shit to keep your hoop steady."  Again the dog could be a problem here.  Also I honestly don't think they would clean it up and half of it would end up blowing into my yard.

* Report them to the IRS.  I found a business card in my yard that has their that says "Bo's Car Detailing" and has their address on it.  How much you want to bet they aren't going to claim any of this income on their taxes?  Also, yes the guy's name apparently is "Bo".  This seems to explain a lot.

* Get in touch with someone in a government office for the township or county to find out if they are breaking any ordinances or laws.  Trouble is, I don't know where to start exactly.

Need some advice here.

[Pugnate]

I like the coalition idea. If you get enough families together who can all approach them together to have a chat about this, it should do the trick. They might (edit: NOT) change a whole new leaf, but I am sure some of their behavior would improve.

Otherwise you could report them.

[ren]

Don't bother with tearing down the sign, using their garbage cans as a counterweight or anything like that. They don't see their cardboard sign as a problem; you tearing it down just makes you an asshole in their eyes. Same thing with the basketball net. If you start messing with parts of their lives which seem perfectly normal to them, you're going to come across as arrogant and start a war.

What's the annoying part about the car detailing, is it just the sign? If so, just flatter him and talk up his business and then just say it's a shame about the sign and see what he does.

[K-man]

Using any passive-aggressive tactics will just serve to piss them off and make you look like a pussy in the process.

[scottws]

So you think I should just go up to them and confront them about it?  Thing is, I'm not down for a physical fight or ongoing feud but conversely I've run out of tolerance for their redneck-ness.

Maybe go up and talk to the guy about it and then if he tells me to fuck off or ignores me try to see if we can bring more neighbors against him?

I guess a lot of my thoughts about this revolve around him telling me to take a hike or start damaging my property or making my life a general living hell.  I suppose the possibility does exist that he'll be a reasonable human being.  It just doesn't seem likely giving his and the rest of the family's judgments about what constitutes acceptable external decor.

[Cobra951]

Are there no zoning restrictions or neighborhood covenants?  Turning a residence into a business complete with outdoor signs (even when those are nice) is often a no-no.  Find out what laws/rules they're breaking.  Report them to the apprpriate town/municipality/neighborhood committee.  Let them deal with the neighbors from hell.  Don't you get personally involved.  You have to live next to them (for as long as you can tolerate).  You can't afford that kind of a long-term, at-home fight  Not worth it.  Repeat: not worth it.

[K-man]

So you think I should just go up to them and confront them about it?  Thing is, I'm not down for a physical fight or ongoing feud but conversely I've run out of tolerance for their redneck-ness.

Maybe go up and talk to the guy about it and then if he tells me to fuck off or ignores me try to see if we can bring more neighbors against him?

I guess a lot of my thoughts about this revolve around him telling me to take a hike or start damaging my property or making my life a general living hell.  I suppose the possibility does exist that he'll be a reasonable human being.  It just doesn't seem likely giving his and the rest of the family's judgments about what constitutes acceptable external decor.

I think you would have a much better outcome if you were to just talk to him about it.  If they refuse to do anything you can go from there.  But doing the passive-aggressive thing is just going to make your life worse when they find out it was you...and I mean there's probably little to no way they wouldn't.  And they'll probably be less likely to work with you, and in fact will probably do things to annoy you further since at that point you'll have established yourself as a passive-aggressive person who is too afraid to go to them with your problems.

[Pugnate]

Yea it sounds sensible to give them a chance. Explain your position, and see if it makes a difference. Otherwise you can see if you have neighbors who are similarly annoyed and would like to have a chat with them.

[scottws]

Alright, thanks for your help.

Maybe I'll let them know I will get detailed through him regularly if they take the sign down or change it to something more professional.

I guess the reason I was leaning to covert tactics was that if I confront him and then later resort to something else like the IRS or the township or county then it will be obvious who the troublemaker is.  It would be less so if it was all covert.  But you're right.  If it were me I would much rather people come to me first than just up and report me or tell me they aren't happy by damaging property.

I looked in Green Township's document about appearances, and it basically says that garbage or flammable junk is a no-no, but not much about anything else.  Not sure about zoning though.

[Cobra951]

I guess the reason I was leaning to covert tactics was that if I confront him and then later resort to something else like the IRS or the township or county then it will be obvious who the troublemaker is. 

Exactly.  Be sure which approach you want to follow.  If you approach them and they're unreasonable, like most rednecks I've met, the road gets much bumpier.

[K-man]

Rest assured, if he approaches them and they are unreasonable, you can guarantee they'd be 10 times more unreasonable if he used shady tactics.

[Cobra951]

Exactly, again, provided they know the shady tactics came from him.  That's my point.  Once Scott approaches them without good results, anyone can figure out who would then go and complain to authorities, even rednecks.  I'm sure these miscreants aren't just pissing him off.  A nasty-gram from a municipality can be the result of any number of neighbors complaining, and the inbreds would have no reason to single out Scott.

[K-man]

I suppose that depends on whether or not he lives right beside them (which I presumed, but I didn't see anything about that mentioned in his post), and whether or not he's done something already shady or behaved in a way previously that would make them think it was him.

If the municipality can handle it, awesome.  But all that other underhanded stuff is a disaster waiting to happen.

[K-man]

Of course I think we can all agree that no matter what he does or how he handles it, they're not going to all of a sudden realize "Oh hey we're being stupid!" and fix all the problems.

[Xessive]

It makes the most sense to go the 'civilized' route, at first anyway. If it looks like doing things the 'right' way is not working then, and only then, you may have to resort to more extreme measures as a last resort.

[scottws]

No, I don't live right next to them.  I live a few doors down.

I ended up finding some e-mail addresses for people on the township zoning commission and, without providing specifics, asked if posting a cardboard sign in a tree and running a car wash/detailing business in a residential driveway violated any zoning restrictions in my area.

I'll decide what to do after I hear back from that.  I'll probably then talk to some of the neighbors I trust about the sign and see what they think.

It's really the sign that pisses me off and kind of the basketball hoop, not so much the actual act of washing cars.  I wish I could get pictures of this stuff without arousing any suspicion so I could show you guys what I see every day.

[K-man]

A case of Bud heavy could go a long way toward making amends here.

[scottws]

Yeah, that's an idea.  I might even throw in a NASCAR ballcap and cinderblocks for the future car in the yard.  And a "I'm a redneck woman" bumper sticker for the wife.  They love those.

[Ghandi]

A case of Bud heavy could go a long way toward making amends here.

I was thinking he should make about 30 "Free Beer and Guns" signs that lead out of the state. PROBLEM SOLVED. 

[K-man]

bahahahahaha.  nice.

[gpw11]

The guy is out there all day with no shirt on with a bunch of noisy pressure washers washing peoples' cars.

I found this weird.  The type of person who gets their car detailed usually isn't the type of person to trust someone named "Bo" to do it for "cheep".  I imagine he's using the wrong type of pressure washer.

This is actually a family?  That makes it way tougher. I've lived in party houses where people have been like "seriously? Beer cans out of the bushes please" and we've been understanding every time.  With 6 dudes in a house there's a difference between being lazy (actually it's usually political) and being an asshole.  With a family though, that's just a way of life and they won't get where the fuck you're coming from.

Most suburban municipalities, however, that I know of, however, do have a kind of general upkeep clause which pretty much covers everything that may not be covered specifically.  If whatever the fuck you're doing or not doing to your property isn't is seen as being far below the general aesthetic standard of the neighbourhood you'll be fined, even if it's not in direct violation of a specific bylaw, building code, or public safety ordinance.  It could be a Canadian thing, but I'd check it out.


Beyond that, you know his business number.  Posting that shit on Craigslist under an ad for gay sex could be fucking awesome.

[scottws]

lol at that last part, but didn't someone do that and then get arrested for reckless endangerment?  I could swear idol posted something about this just the other day.

[W7RE]

Not to side with the rednecks, but are we just talking about the outward appearance of their property? Are they leaving trash around the neighborhood, or making a lot of noise at inappropriate times?

I can see why it would bug you, but I don't really think there's much of anything you can do without coming across as a tight ass. Imagine if a neighbor came over and asked you to mow your lawn more often, because they thought it was unsightly. I know this is more extreme than that, but it's a similar confrontation.

[scottws]

Your analogy doesn't work because I care very much about the appearance of my property and get compliments on it all the time.

[W7RE]

How about: I don't like looking at your hair. Change it please.

[scottws]

Eh.  Still doesn't work.  Someone's hair doesn't have a monetary impact on other people around them.  Having a shithole house full of a bunch of 'necks a couple doors up has a direct impact on the value of my property.

And going back to your first analogy, even for things like people who only mow their lawns once every three weeks, they get talked to by neighbors to clean that up.  Hell, a neighbor told me about a year ago he called the county on a guy up the street who didn't cut his grass for a really long time.  They sent someone out to cut it and fined the owner.

Just because it's your property doesn't give you license to do whatever you want with it.

[Pugnate]

Yea from what I understand, in the better American neighborhoods you do get a formal notice by the neighborhood committees regarding the outward appearance of your home because it devalues the rest of the properties in close vicinity.

Most suburban municipalities, however, that I know of, however, do have a kind of general upkeep clause which pretty much covers everything that may not be covered specifically.  If whatever the fuck you're doing or not doing to your property isn't is seen as being far below the general aesthetic standard of the neighbourhood you'll be fined, even if it's not in direct violation of a specific bylaw, building code, or public safety ordinance.  It could be a Canadian thing, but I'd check it out.

Yea this is what I am talking about. I have a few uncles who are American citizens, and they signed an agreement to keep their homes and lawns maintained at a certain standard before they were able buy to their respective houses.

One of my uncles was away on business in China for a month, and when he came back, he got a fine for not having made arrangements to have his lawn mowed.

I guess the point is that you have every right to live like a pig, but you have to shape up if you are going to move out of the pigsty.

No, I don't live right next to them.  I live a few doors down.

I ended up finding some e-mail addresses for people on the township zoning commission and, without providing specifics, asked if posting a cardboard sign in a tree and running a car wash/detailing business in a residential driveway violated any zoning restrictions in my area.

I'll decide what to do after I hear back from that.  I'll probably then talk to some of the neighbors I trust about the sign and see what they think.

It's really the sign that pisses me off and kind of the basketball hoop, not so much the actual act of washing cars.  I wish I could get pictures of this stuff without arousing any suspicion so I could show you guys what I see every day.

Dude, use a camera phone. I'd like to see this.

Honestly, I've never met a true "redneck" in my life. What sort of mindset do they have? Are they the sort to easily take offense?

[scottws]

Oh, I don't live in one of the upper-middle-class or upper class neighborhoods that have those homeowner alliance agreements.  In my neighborhood we just have the laws and ordinances set forth by the state of Ohio, the county of Hamilton, and the township of Green.  There are some that protect me from my neighbors, but they aren't as strong and comprehensive as those homeowner alliance agreements are.

Rednecks are lower-income white people, but not all lower-income white people are rednecks.  There are certain characteristics/stereotypes that makes someone a redneck.  I'll leave it to this site and this Google image search to convey what being a redneck is about.

[Cobra951]

Imagine if a neighbor came over and asked you to mow your lawn more often, because they thought it was unsightly.

Easily, because I lived it.  I was the neighbor from hell then, horribly depressed that my wife left with my kids.  Lawn overgrown.  Got a nasty-gram from the township: mow or we'll do it and bill you.  I hired a lawn-care service.  The township got involved because of one or more complaints.

LOL at that Google page.   

[Pugnate]

hahah... well I have a fair idea about rednecks, but never met one so didn't know if it was just an unfair stereotype.

[sirean_syan]

You know what would be funny? If this was their six year old son's way of earning enough money for a PS3 this summer. You know, like a manly lemonade stand. The business cards are just the parent's way of playing along with their son, but in the end when he only makes $10 they'll just say it's okay and then buy the PS3 for him for trying.

And here's Scott shitting all over this kid's dream. What a dick.

[Pugnate]

Having gone through that website and those images, I almost feel like rednecks are pretty similar to what you'd find in much of Pakistan, and the middle east.

Really...

I realize that those websites are a "tongue in cheek" portrayal, but those descriptions are very fitting for the vast majority of idiots I have come across here. I am glad I live in a great neighborhood now, which is basically full of expats, or people with strong educational backgrounds... but yea...

The vast majority of people here are illiterate, and have a huge inferiority complex along with a huge chip on their shoulders.

As I have reported before, I have had verbal disagreements with some people living in this part of the world over the past five years, and I've noticed that the more polite I've been with these people (brownnecks?), the worse they've reacted.

Believe it or not, the conversations from their end always start with, "You think you are so educated...", when I have done nothing to suggest that I think they aren't as smart as me.

It is just an inferiority complex or something... and their words quickly reveal their own feelings of inadequacy.

For example... my first landlord, who was a religious extremist, and sent his sons with a gun to threaten my mother and sister while I was moving stuff out of the house... (if any of you missed that thread, you can do a quick search), had his first argument with me over the fact that I didn't come to give him a traditional hug on the day of Eid (our christmas)...

No I am not kidding. When he saw me, he basically said that I thought I was too educated to come meet him.

I was floored, because that thought had never crossed my mind, and it wasn't anything I had ever implied.

When something like that happened with a few other people (trust me, I don't go around seeking uneducated people to boast about my worthless BBA degree), I realized there was just something wrong with people here. I am in a great part of the city now, full of people who are of a similar background... but you still run across these brownnecks.

Just some of the characteristics of these brownnecks:

1. Almost all are uneducated. If they have wealth, it is through family business, or land. Most don't think it is worth sending their kids to school after 10th grade, and would rather teach them the family business.
2. EXTREMELY religious, and have a complete misunderstanding of Islam. If you try to explain how it is, they will get very upset. They also believe the Taliban have been given an unfair reputation, and that 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy to attack Muslim countries. Most have memorized the Koran to heart in Arabic, yet don't understand a word of the language. Yes, how fucked up is that?
3. Very stubborn about everything. They basically learn things a certain way once when young, and will defend these beliefs no matter what logic is presented to them. Basically, they struggle to think independently.
4. Extremely defensive mindset. They are also very insecure. Because they never got a proper education, they believe every harmless person with a college diploma is not to be trusted.

OK so brownnecks sound worse than rednecks... but really, there is no talking to such people. I wouldn't approach these neighbors on my own, as it would probably make things worse. I'd say, organize some families and approach them together.

[Cobra951]

That was an education, Pug.  Thank you.  Now that I'm often in SE Indiana, I'm seeing more than my share of rednecks and hayseeds mucking about.  Last year, Sandy and I went to a party at a friend's farm house.  Very nice upscale place.  Most people were like us, fairly educated and cultured, but there was one guy I thought was the hired help, maybe for the barn.  He was like a caricature of a hillbilly: overalls, floppy-brimmed hat, beard, way overweight.  Turned out he was the owner's nephew.

I wouldn't approach these neighbors on my own, as it would probably make things worse. I'd say, organize some families and approach them together.

This is my fear for Scott as well.  The personal approach is a one-shot deal.  If it doesn't work, things always get worse later, possibly much worse.  It's a risk I wouldn't take.

[Pugnate]

Regarding what I posted... I guess it isn't *that* bad, as it isn't the vast majority... but really, if you even run across one in a hundred people like that, it feels like a lot. As I've mentioned before, a religious party has NEVER won the majority in elections here, as noted even by the American media. It has always been a liberal party. This time around in election time, in the northern mountain border region (the place of current taliban conflict), the majority was won by the assassinated Benazir Bhutto's liberal party, which was shocking.

To be fair, over the past four years, I have come across people of brownneck mentalities maybe once a month. Still feels like a lot though. Most of the lower class people here are nice enough. People who drive cabs, or run stores etc., are the humble type. But a lot of richer families are like what I described, as being brownnecks. I suppose they are like that because they have the wealth to mingle with the more educated folks, but feel extremely insecure. Who knows.

Most people were like us, fairly educated and cultured, but there was one guy I thought was the hired help, maybe for the barn.  He was like a caricature of a hillbilly: overalls, floppy-brimmed hat, beard, way overweight.  Turned out he was the owner's nephew.

haha... have a similar story. My parents were looking to buy a house. They went there, and the house was pretty nice, and in an upscale area. The person who owned it was a doctor, and was fairly nice. But then as they were looking around, the house's gardener kept butting in and was quite rude. My mother described him as wearing torn clothing stained with curry, and looking very unkempt etc.

She said, for some reason the doctor seemed to be embarrassed by him.

Later it turned out, that man was his father and not a gardener. The son had come from family money driven by an old family business, and had focused on getting an education and becoming a doctor, but I guess you can't completely shake your background.

As people look towards education, things will change in this part of the world... until then, I expect to see more unfortunate problems that affect the globe.

This is my fear for Scott as well.  The personal approach is a one-shot deal.  If it doesn't work, things always get worse later, possibly much worse.  It's a risk I wouldn't take.

Yea, I agree... a one-shot deal is what it probably is.

[W7RE]

Most of the people where I live are rednecks. It's a small town in the middle of nowhere, with almost nothing but white people. Everyone has shit on their porches and lawns, most people are missing teeth, and I think everyone owns a pair of overalls. Bluegrass music is alive and juming here. There's a rodeo rounds nearby that hosts bluegrass concerts on summer nights, and lawn mower races during summer days. (no, I'm not joking)

The town is called "Lowgap", which to me screams redneck. For businesses, we've got 1 gas station, a couple churches, and an autobody shop someone runs out of their home garage.

35 miles away is Mount Airy (AKA Mayberry from the Andy Griffith Show), which has a very small mall (like 10 stores, including a Kmart), a Walmart, and some resteraunts.

About an hour and a half away, is Winston-Salem, the nearest "large" city, which has a population of 1.6 million.



Lowgap population is 2,536. That's 96.6% white, 1.1% hispanic (the Mexicans that work the fields).
Mount Airy population is 8,484, which is 85% white, 8% black, 6% hispanic.
Winston-Salem (closest "large" city) has a pop. of 1.6 mil: 55% white, 37% black, 8.6% hispanic.

See the dropoff in non-whites as you get out into the backwoods? Yea, they don't like other races around here. When I go to Winston-Salem I also notice people become much more tolerable. Don't get me wrong, the people here are nice (when I don't wear all my facial jewelry, and now that I no longer have a red mohawk), but they are hardcore rednecks.

[K-man]

Sounds like a place I'd want to visit.  I love Bluegrass music.

[scottws]

Well -- it was inevitable -- recent rain has destroyed the sign and it is gone.  We'll see what happens next.

[Cobra951]

See the dropoff in non-whites as you get out into the backwoods? Yea, they don't like other races around here. When I go to Winston-Salem I also notice people become much more tolerable. Don't get me wrong, the people here are nice (when I don't wear all my facial jewelry, and now that I no longer have a red mohawk), but they are hardcore rednecks.

At first I didn't notice it.  Then I saw a black couple in Lawrenceburg.  One couple.  Then it hit me.  The funny thing is that Lawrenceburg is very close to Cincinnati, where blacks are numerous.  Yes, rednecks and other races, particularly blacks, don't mix well.

[Ghandi]

When I go to Winston-Salem I also notice people become much more tolerable.

Heh, you are pretty close to me. I'm in Winston right now.

[scottws]

So one of the zoning people got back to me.  Here is what they said:

The odd car wash/detailing is probably not going to rise to the level of business activity that is a zoning violation.  Regardless the sign is a violation – Please provide me with a specific address and I will have the Zoning Inspector look into the matter and issue a the appropriate citation - If the activity (detailing) becomes well organized – and there is an obvious outward appearance of the business activity – that also can be cited.  <omit> Avenue falls under Hamilton County Zoning – their number is <omit>. If you have more detailed questions please feel free to contact them directly

Please let me know if the Township can be of any additional help

Oh yeah and the guy replaced the sign.  It is now in one of those for-sale sign brackets.  It's white posterboard now and has sans serif black vinyl sticker letters.  He did draw lines to help him align the letters horizontally, but they aren't all on the line, are all crooked, and the words certainly are not centered vertically.

Still, it looks a lot nicer than it did before.