Topic: Dragon Age: Origins -> Update: DAO Ultimate joins GOG

[PyroMenace]

I hope the blood dragon armor I got from the PC Dragon Age will work on a console version of Mass Effect 2.

[iPPi]

From what I understand, the blood dragon armor code is linked to your Bioware account.  As a result, it doesn't matter which version of DAO you get, it'll be unlocked when you play Mass Effect 2.

I'm just saying pug that if someone were to buy Dragon Age later than April 2010 they will get screwed by not getting the Stone Prisoner DLC for free as the code will be worthless.  It's also not worth $15, so people who decide to buy this game later are essentially getting ripped off.

[Pugnate]

I hope the blood dragon armor I got from the PC Dragon Age will work on a console version of Mass Effect 2.

I am sure it will work like iPPi points out that you can buy it under one profile. But is there any reason you are going for the console version?

I'm just saying pug that if someone were to buy Dragon Age later than April 2010 they will get screwed by not getting the Stone Prisoner DLC for free as the code will be worthless.  It's also not worth $15, so people who decide to buy this game later are essentially getting ripped off.

Yea that's pretty shitty. I bet it is just a way to hijack future buyers.

For example, they could release a special GOTY edition where the the DLC deadline is extended... Or they could simply be trying to counter the fact that a year later the game is bound to be in the bargain bin.

Either way, it is quite shady.

[Pugnate]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mass-Effect-2-Blood-Dragon-Armor-DLC-Code-Xbox-360-PC_W0QQitemZ330389383315QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cecbde893

Someone is willing to pay $25 for that??

WTH?!

[Quemaqua]

I thought the DLC was supposed to come free with every new copy?  I thought it was the "Please don't buy it used" leverage?

[Pugnate]

The armor comes with only the collector's edition.

Stone prisoner comes with every new copy but apparently must be activated in your account by April 2010. Once it is activated, it is forever associated with your account. I hope the expiry is for some technical reason and they still offer the DLC with new boxes even after April 2010.

[W7RE]

The armor comes with only the collector's edition.

My Xbox standard edition has Stone Prisoner and Dragon Armor, both on opposite sides of the same card insert. So I guess the only thing I don't have is the Warden Keep DLC. (which is only like $7)

[iPPi]

My Xbox standard edition has Stone Prisoner and Dragon Armor, both on opposite sides of the same card insert. So I guess the only thing I don't have is the Warden Keep DLC. (which is only like $7)

Ditto for the PS3.  I'm not sure why that auction is saying the Blood Dragon Armor set is a preorder exclusive.

[Xessive]

On PSN (Asia) it says that the Stone Prisoner DLC is $20! It's a decent bit of DLC but it is not worth $20 on top of the game's asking price!

Upon realizing that I gathered that The Warden's Keep for $7 must mean that it's paltry in comparison and still overpriced for its actual content.

Bioware really fudged up with this DLC business.

My regular PC copy came with The Stone Prisoner and the Blood Dragon Armor. I have no intention of buying Warden's Keep for $7. I'm never going to log in to the Dragon Age Origins online service either since it only screws up my game. I don't even really see the point of logging in anyway! It's not a multiplayer game!

[Pugnate]

You know, this doesn't leave me with much hope for the new upcoming DLC which is priced at $5. I'll buy it on day 1 because I am a sucker for this game but I hope it is worth it...

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/517243/1#517735

I made a thread regarding the expiry date. The moderator seems to shrugging it off.

[Quemaqua]

This is one of the things I was afraid of when DLC started taking off... ridiculous pricing.  There's no way any of these are worth anywhere near what they're asking.  I have no hope for the new one, either given their track record.

[K-man]

That's the beauty of it though.  You don't think its worth the cash, you don't buy it.  It's that simple.

[Ghandi]

That's the beauty of it though.  You don't think its worth the cash, you don't buy it.  It's that simple.

True. But some developers shorten the original release only to make you pay for content later, which is bullshit.

[K-man]

True. But some developers shorten the original release only to make you pay for content later, which is bullshit.

Completely agreed, but we can vote with our dollar there too.

[Xessive]

I don't know man.. I'm not entirely convinced. In my mind it's like going to a steakhouse and ordering a pepper steak only to get your dish with nothing but a slab of undercooked beef (game equivalent: buggy) without any seasoning, spices, pepper, or a side of potatoes/vegetables (missing content). Then you're informed that you'll have to pay to get those "extras." It's still edible but it's not what expected to be paying the full price of a steak dinner for. They're cutting the core meal and charging for the sum of the missing parts. Y'know, kinda like a stingy French restaurant that charges $7 for a single snip of parsley.

In Borderlands I feel more like I was served a complete and satisfying meal, yet if I want additional portions I can order them for an added cost. Gearbox have thus far been generous with their portions and their side-dishes.

[Pugnate]

I sorta agree with K-Man in the sense that no one is forcing us to buy any of this.

I don't feel outraged about DLC when the original package is worth the asking price. With a single play through of Dragon Age providing 80+ hours of great variety in entertainment, I don't care too much what they removed to sell on the side, since none of it was an essential part of the game. Hell, I am probably going to finish Dragon Age at least thrice... so it was totally worth the price I paid for the collector's edition.

While their concept of DLC is indeed terrible, none of the DLC has felt like an essential addition to the game. In a sense it is a plus, because no one gives a shit about Warden's Keep.

I don't know man.. I'm not entirely convinced. In my mind it's like going to a steakhouse and ordering a pepper steak only to get your dish with nothing but a slab of undercooked beef (game equivalent: buggy) without any seasoning, spices, pepper, or a side of potatoes/vegetables (missing content). Then you're informed that you'll have to pay to get those "extras." It's still edible but it's not what expected to be paying the full price of a steak dinner for. They're cutting the core meal and charging for the sum of the missing parts. Y'know, kinda like a stingy French restaurant that charges $7 for a single snip of parsley.

In Borderlands I feel more like I was served a complete and satisfying meal, yet if I want additional portions I can order them for an added cost. Gearbox have thus far been generous with their portions and their side-dishes.

I think you are blowing it out of proportion in the case of Dragon Age. None of the DLC has felt like anything more than some sauce on the side.

The biggest pay-only DLC (which is apparently the only one you have to buy even if you bought a new copy) is Warden's Keep, and no one gives a crap that it isn't a part of the main game. The whole quest is pretty lame, and doesn't take 30 minutes to complete. How does its removal equate to Dragon Age being a slab of undercooked beef without seasoning, spices, pepper, or a side of potatoes/vegetables?

I am sorry, but that's a little ridiculous.

edit:

The only worthy piece of DLC is the Stone Prisoner quest, and that is a part of any new purchase.

The rest of the DLC like the preorder bonuses and the armor require certain levels before they can be used. I actually didn't use the blood dragon armor for more than a few quests because I had something more powerful soon after.

[W7RE]

Stuff can be intentionally left out, can be litterally cut out and turned into DLC, or can just be given pre-release production time that could have been used for something that actually shipped with the game. Without developers explicitly telling us which it is, it's guesswork a lot of times. When DLC is available at release (like DAO) it's obviously either had almost no production time (from the game going gold to the game hitting stores), or it was made using resources that could have gone to the main game.

Assassin's Creed 2 has 2 missing memory blocks near the end of the game. When you get to them in-game, one of the characters tells you that's when the Bonfire of the Vanities took place, but the data is "corrupt". Those 2 blocks are going to be DLC. But he game feels complete without them, and at least they weren't created during the main game's development cycle. They just planned ahead. Some people have a problem with the way it's being done though.

[Pugnate]

I think it is a bit of a quandary when it comes to DLC that is released on day 1.

On the one hand, if it sucks, people will say that it is stupid and not worth the money, and that they feel ripped off.

On the other, if it is brilliant, people will get upset that it was cut out in the first place.

Personally, I think we would all obviously not have day 1 DLC at all, but push comes to shove, I'd rather it be the first option.

[Xessive]

None of the DLC has felt like anything more than some sauce on the side.

Exactly, so why does it cost so much?!

Anyway, I was referring to all the DLC: Warden's Keep and The Stone Prisoner. Since apparently in some cases The Stone Prisoner was not available and is instead an online purchase for $20 (or $15 in the US). Even if you did get it with your initial purchase it's treated as DLC by Bioware. It's like insincere generosity "See, look what I'm giving you. That's extra but I gave it to you to sweeten the deal. No one else would do that for you."

Don't get me wrong I love the game, much like I love my beef, and I'm not complaining about the core game, just the way EA is handling the DLC.

Remember the plugins or adventure packs for NWN? That was appropriate. Bioware did a good job with those and Atari didn't really get in the way of those getting into the hands of the public. EA, on the other hand, seems to be the biggest driving factor in milking people.

[iPPi]

For me, it all comes down to the amount of content and cost.  When I look at DLC -- if it's free I'll get it, if it costs money then there's a very, very good chance I will not because in most cases, it's just 2 hours of extra gameplay at a ridiculous price point.

Take Prince of Persia for example.  The Epilogue DLC is still listed at $9.99, but from what I've read it barely has 2 hours of additional gameplay, and the boss fights are recycled and stuff like that.  When I bought the game it was only $14.99 and I got 15 hours of gameplay for it... I'm not paying another $10 for 2 more hours of gameplay.

Also, while the AC2 DLC was pre-planned already since those two DNA blocks are already in game, the DLC itself seems to be quite reasonably priced, at $3.99 and $4.99.  The first will have the battle of Forli... I expect about 1-2 hours of additional gameplay, and the second will probably have 2-3 hours since it opens up the rest of Florence (there's a part that's blocked off for the entirety of the game.  It just feels like they handled it better.  These two pieces of DLC will likely be the first DLC that I will have actually paid money for, and I will likely get them on the first day.

Batman: Arkham Asylum DLC was awesome because it was free.  

Bioware doesn't seem to be handling their DLC very well.  Look at Mass Effect and now DAO.  High price points without enough content.

[Xessive]

For me, it all comes down to the amount of content and cost.  When I look at DLC -- if it's free I'll get it, if it costs money then there's a very, very good chance I will not because in most cases, it's just 2 hours of extra gameplay at a ridiculous price point.

Take Prince of Persia for example.  The Epilogue DLC is still listed at $9.99, but from what I've read it barely has 2 hours of additional Batman: Arkham Asylum DLC was awesome because it was free.  

Bioware doesn't seem to be handling their DLC very well.  Look at Mass Effect and now DAO.  High price points without enough content.

I agree with all points.

[Pugnate]

Xessive, I see what you were saying, because they essentially removed a component from the game to sell as DLC.

From what I heard on the PCG podcast, according to Bioware, they removed Warden's Keep because it was very buggy etc, and they decided it wasn't going to be part of the game any more. Then near release, apparently another team, incharge of Q&A, tried the Warden's Keep portion, and found it was OK, and decided it would make some great DLC.

Obviously Bioware were correct in their assessment, and I wonder if the other team was influenced by EA.

Then again, this could all be b.s.

Exactly, so why does it cost so much?!

It is because there are idiots like me willing to pay for it.

I actually regretted buying it the instant I finished it... which actually felt like an instant.

Anyway, I was referring to all the DLC: Warden's Keep and The Stone Prisoner. Since apparently in some cases The Stone Prisoner was not available and is instead an online purchase for $20 (or $15 in the US). Even if you did get it with your initial purchase it's treated as DLC by Bioware. It's like insincere generosity "See, look what I'm giving you. That's extra but I gave it to you to sweeten the deal. No one else would do that for you."

But the Stone Prisoner is available with every new copy of the game, world wide. I read two threads where people didn't get it because of packaging errors, but they were given codes online by Bioware. I bought mine from Thailand, and it had it. I got my cousin a copy from the UK, and he had it too.

I think everyone in this thread has it as well?

I see what you are saying about the insincere generosity, but once they decided that they were going to use it as an incentive to buy the game new, there were no two ways around it. Either they could treat it like free DLC or not at all.

Remember the plugins or adventure packs for NWN? That was appropriate. Bioware did a good job with those and Atari didn't really get in the way of those getting into the hands of the public. EA, on the other hand, seems to be the biggest driving factor in milking people.

I remember in NWN2 they started charging for that stuff, and people were furious.

I am not convinced that Bioware is completely innocent though.

BTW, are there no kits for fans to develop content?

Bioware doesn't seem to be handling their DLC very well.  Look at Mass Effect and now DAO.  High price points without enough content.

At least the ME DLC on the PC was free.

I do agree that the DLC on Dragon Age has been handled very poorly, but I am just saying that because none of it feels remotely essential, I don't care.

Had they started charging say $20 for being able to use swords in the game, I would have found it unacceptable.

[K-man]

You know what.  I bought the horse armor, ok?  I knew what it was, exactly what it would be, and I bought it.  I made an informed decision to get it full knowing that truthfully I probably wasn't getting my money's worth.  But at that point I was obsessed with having everything possible for Oblivion and I bit.  Looking back it probably wasn't a smart decision, but it was a decision I made so I live with it.  I feel like I was shafted on the first Fable 2 DLC.  I felt it was very shallow (and by that point insanely easy).  But again, I bought it so I have to live with it.  Someone else might feel they got their money's worth out of it, I dunno.  I did not (and in fact read reviews pretty much stating exactly what I just finished saying)

I just have no sympathy for anyone who buys DLC (or full games for that matter) and then complains about the price or content.  In this day and age we have plenty of tools at our disposal to weigh whether or not it's worth our time and money.  If a company's sales tactics convince you that you're not getting your money's worth, that they're trying to nickel and dime you to get a full game, or just flat out enrages you, don't buy it!

None of us are helpless in these situations

[W7RE]

Basically what I want from DLC is for it to be worth the money I'm paying, and I don't want to feel like it was stripped from the original so they could essentially get more than $50/$60 for a new game.

Both Borderlands DLC packs were worth it at $10 each
The AC2 packs look like they will be too

I also have about a dozen different digital download games just on xbox 360, none of which I regret buying.

[MysterD]

At least the ME DLC on the PC was free.

Bring Down The Sky was free for those who bought NEW copies of the game, yes.

DLC #2 w/ the Arena was NOT free.
And supposedly, DLC #2 sucked and didn't add much content to the game.

[W7RE]

Bring Down The Sky was free for those who bought NEW copies of the game, yes.

DLC #2 w/ the Arena was NOT free.
And supposedly, DLC #2 sucked and didn't add much content to the game.

I bought ME from Games on Demand on Xbox. I wonder if it came with Bring Down the Sky...

[Xessive]

It is because there are idiots like me willing to pay for it.

Haha ever feel like there are people who'd pay for anything just because someone is charging for it? Y'know, just because it never occurred to them that it was free! hehe

At least the ME DLC on the PC was free.

The first DLC "Bring Down The Sky" was free. The second one wasn't. Apparently the second sucks so badly that people who bought it were pissed off they paid for it.

Dudes, speaking of bad decisions and buyer's remorse, I was the one guy who bought Daikatana! DAIKATANA! Damn you ROMEROOOO!! (in a Stephen Colbert-esque cursing yell) I may forgive but I will NEVER forget!!

[MysterD]

I bought ME from Games on Demand on Xbox. I wonder if it came with Bring Down the Sky...

I think BDTS DLC was only FREE on the PC for those who bought new copies of the game.

I think though, on the double-disc re-release of Mass Effect for the X360, it came w/ the BDTS on disc.

No clue how the Games on Demand on 360 version of ME works, though...

EDIT:
Yeah, Mass Effect - Double Disc Re-Release for X360 contains BDTS DLC and other extra stuff.

[Quemaqua]

K-man, you're entirely missing my point. I'm not talking about the DLC itself.  Of course I won't buy the shit, but even though I have made this decision, I still have to look at that stupid motherfucker standing in my camp every time I go in.  It nags at me and makes me feel like my game is incomplete.  It breaks immersion and is distracting.  And you know what the easy remedy would be?  To have him not fucking be there, the way it should have been in the first place.

[MysterD]

Looks like Dragon Age might expand.
Might be called Dragon Age: The Awakening - a full-fledged expansion that'll also go to retail.

Dragon Age: The Awakening Expansion Revealed?
   
[Dec 30, 2009, 9:20 pm ET] - Share - Viewing Comments
A post in Czech on Eurogamer.cz has word on Dragon Age: The Awakening, which they say is the first retail expansion for Dragon Age: Origins, BioWare's recently released RPG, saying this will offer new items and a level cap increase and is expected in March, 2010 (thanks LS). They report the revelation was made by a premature online listing for the add-on, but this is obviously still speculative for the time being.

Here is a translation from Google of part of their story:
"Details of the expansion's contents are still only preliminary and may still change. Awareness will follow the story chronologically Dragon Age: Origins and promises a huge portion of the additional content. You play as a completely new main character, including his own prologue (separate Origin Story), the new campaign. Completion of the central storyline to take approximately 15 hours, as compared to the 100-hour original is not too much, and have consequences for the rest of the game."

[Pugnate]

An expansion that takes 15 hours? WTF? Even the NWN expansions provided 30-40 hours.

That's crap. This better be priced at $15 max.

[MysterD]

An expansion that takes 15 hours? WTF? Even the NWN expansions provided 30-40 hours.

NWN Expansions were 20 hour minimums for the main campaign itself; then add-on whatever the side questing stuff was. So, yeah - your figure sounds about ballpark there.

Let's also keep also in mind - not everything in NWN1 Expansions were entirely voice-acted, either. I'd bet if DA was to expand, they'd probably fully voice-act it.

Let's look at the up-side - if all this DA: The Awakening stuff is true - well, it'll still be longer than all of L4D1 and L4D2's Campaigns put together.

[K-man]

K-man, you're entirely missing my point. I'm not talking about the DLC itself.  Of course I won't buy the shit, but even though I have made this decision, I still have to look at that stupid motherfucker standing in my camp every time I go in.  It nags at me and makes me feel like my game is incomplete.  It breaks immersion and is distracting.  And you know what the easy remedy would be?  To have him not fucking be there, the way it should have been in the first place.

I can see your point.  But he doesn't bother me in the slightest.  What bothers me is that Bioware still hasn't fixed the framerate issues on the PS3 version.  And I won't play it again until they do.

[Pugnate]

NWN Expansions were 20 hour minimums for the main campaign itself; then add-on whatever the side questing stuff was. So, yeah - your figure sounds about ballpark there.

Let's also keep also in mind - not everything in NWN1 Expansions were entirely voice-acted, either. I'd bet if DA was to expand, they'd probably fully voice-act it.

Let's look at the up-side - if all this DA: The Awakening stuff is true - well, it'll still be longer than all of L4D1 and L4D2's Campaigns put together.

Yea I missed the part where it says the main quest will take 15 hours. Along with the sidequests if it is about 25, it is OK.

[MysterD]

Yea I missed the part where it says the main quest will take 15 hours. Along with the sidequests if it is about 25, it is OK.

I usually dabble in most main and side quest in expansions.
I could so go for this.

Plus, w/ the kinda slow way I play these type of games to absorb them and try to find most nooks and crannies, I can turn a 15 hour game into 25 easily...

[iPPi]

I can see your point.  But he doesn't bother me in the slightest.  What bothers me is that Bioware still hasn't fixed the framerate issues on the PS3 version.  And I won't play it again until they do.

Hmmm... I'm not having this issue really.  How choppy is it for you?  I think it runs at at low twenties most of the time on my PS3, but if you buff up your entire party, then there is a noticeable slowdown.  Generally speaking though, I don't find it to the point that it is distracting.  What I do find annoying is the general feeling of sluggishness though.  Moving between menu screens, pausing and resuming generally has a slight delay.

Overall though, the game is good enough that I can look past its technical issues and still enjoy the game for what it is. 

[Pugnate]

So I finally united all the allies and went back to Denerim, and basically back on the main storyline, and really loving it.

edit:
There is a rescue mission you go on, which leaves you facing a battle with impossible odds. You have the option to surrender, though you can try to fight. If you are getting your ass kicked, don't reload... it is all part of the package.

[MysterD]

Hey Pugnate, I'm like around 24 hours in or whatever.

I'mma type more about some of the game here, in spoiler tags...

Redcliffe - Night Battle

(click to show/hide)

I loaded a not-too-much earlier save yesterday and this time got Dwyn to join me for the Redcliffe battle. I really needed that - otherwise, I got decimated everytime by the 2nd wave. It was still tough, but I was actually able to make it through, barely.

Morrigan Vs. Demons

(click to show/hide)

To save the boy, Morrigan entered The Fade and battled The Fade. Her solo battles w/ the demons was pretty cool.

The Crows (Assassins)

(click to show/hide)

I got assaulted by one of The Crows dudes - and basically made him join my party. That battle w/ him and his crew was freaking awesome, which was a set-up w/ a downed caravan.

This game's freaking amazing and one of the best RPG's this decade - right up there w/ BG2, The Witcher, Oblivion and Fallout 3. My only complaint w/ this DAO game so far is the damn in-game handling/advertising of the DLC.

[Pugnate]

Yea I agree. The battles in this game (at least the PC version) are going to set the standard for me for years to come.

In my previous post I hinted at a battle I was supposed to lose. On my third attempt I won it and it was totally amazing.

[MysterD]

In my previous post I hinted at a battle I was supposed to lose. On my third attempt I won it and it was totally amazing.

Awesome!

Yea I agree. The battles in this game (at least the PC version) are going to set the standard for me for years to come.

It really feels like almost every battle in this game is meant to be a big epic set-piece. I don't think I've seen epic battles on-screen in a strategic-RPG like this before. It really does go even further beyond BG2 + TOB w/ these epic battles - and those games really had some epic battles.

I feel like most of my time when I'm controlling my party, I'm spending it controlling Morrigan. Sure, I do a lot of micromanaging of my party here - but Morrigan is the one I control the most and longest. More so than my main Rogue even!