Author Topic: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad  (Read 5654 times)

Offline Xessive

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Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 06:09:48 PM »
Looks like an improvement.

I'm curious but honestly $65 is a bit much for a controller. I suppose since it comes with the Play'N'Charge kit.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 06:13:53 PM »
I'm guessing we can plug this into a PC USB port like the old S-Style X360 Controller?

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 06:30:44 PM »
I saw that, complete with a video with "Major Nelson" explaining it.  He acknowledged all the criticism heaped on the original crappy D-pad.  What pisses me off is that you can only get the fixed 2-mode D-pad on a fucking wireless pad with fucking batteries and a fucking charger, all bundled together.

If the Razer Onza controller ever gets actually released, it's looking even better.  Thank God that Microsoft is a such a money-grubbing bitch, and won't allow 3rd parties to interface with the wireless controller receiver in the Xbox.  Have I mentioned that I hate fucking batteries?

Offline idolminds

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 06:43:53 PM »
Yeah, wireless only sucks. Not only that, but you can only buy it with the play and charge kit so its 65-fucking-dollars. Plus the buttons are all grey instead of the usual colored ones for maximum confusion and fuck up potential. Does MS hire people to specifically help them design things as poorly as possible?

And D, nope...it wont work on a PC unless you have one of the wireless adapters that they apparently don't make anymore and are difficult to find.

Offline beo

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 07:16:40 PM »
I actually like how it looks. Something I really don't understand, however, is why the d-pad is transformable between two different states. Who the fuck is going to ever put it back into retarded-doesn't-work-properly mode?

Offline scottws

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 08:19:33 PM »
And D, nope...it wont work on a PC unless you have one of the wireless adapters that they apparently don't make anymore and are difficult to find.
I have one of those, but my southbridge is going well... south and it fried it or something and it won't come on anymore.  You can't even find drivers for the thing on Microsoft's site anyway.  It's like they disowned it or something.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 09:10:52 PM »
Which is amazing all things considered because all sorts of game developers were excited to finally have something decent to standardize a gamepad on the PC. Several games in the past year come straight out with the 360 controller working straight out of the gate and even a couple that I saw didn't work with others that I have (ie Braid and Batman).

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 09:27:54 PM »
I actually like how it looks. Something I really don't understand, however, is why the d-pad is transformable between two different states. Who the fuck is going to ever put it back into retarded-doesn't-work-properly mode?

That mode is hopefully gone for good.  The idea, as I understand it, is to give you the choice between 4 reliable cardinal points and 8 directions.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 01:35:35 AM »
The Razer Onza does look pretty sweet! It's too bad it's only wired though. I prefer wireless and I appreciate one thing Microsoft did with the X360 wireless controller: they gave you the option of batteries or a replaceable charge pack. If you hate batteries, you can just get the charge pack and recharge it whenever it's out. Plus, since it's detachable you can charge it separately if you have the charging dock and still use your controller with batteries or another charge pack if you have one.

After searching for a couple of years, I finally have the USB receiver for the X360 Wireless controller. Unfortunately they only sell it in a pack with a controller, so that racks up its price to about $60-$70. On the slightly brighter side they did actually release the black version of it too. I am currently stuck with the white one and it is kinda fugly.. It's white and grey (the standard X360 colours) which do not match with anything on my desk.

Anyway, the new X360 controller's d-pad looks to be the only improvement I care about. The discoloured buttons won't be a big problem for me since the layout is second-nature to me now. I still think it's a stupid decision anyway. The least they could have done was make the buttons grey but colour the letters to maintain some consistency.

Offline W7RE

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 01:38:52 AM »
The new d-pad looks nice, but is it really all that different? Is it different under the hood too, or does it just give your thumb more of a feeling of where the 4 cardinal directions are?

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 01:44:32 AM »
The new d-pad looks nice, but is it really all that different? Is it different under the hood too, or does it just give your thumb more of a feeling of where the 4 cardinal directions are?
It's supposedly a proper d-pad and not some weird pivot-plate.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 09:05:25 AM »
The Razer Onza does look pretty sweet! It's too bad it's only wired though. I prefer wireless and I appreciate one thing Microsoft did with the X360 wireless controller: they gave you the option of batteries or a replaceable charge pack. If you hate batteries, you can just get the charge pack and recharge it whenever it's out. Plus, since it's detachable you can charge it separately if you have the charging dock and still use your controller with batteries or another charge pack if you have one.

Oh, is that all I have to do?  I have to pay a lot more money, hold a heavier gadget, then nursemaid the thing with increasing regularity as the battery pack wears out.  (You're saying I have to perform surgery on the pad to continue using it when it needs charging?  I can't plug the whole thing through the charger into USB and have it charge as I use it?  Then it sucks even worse than I thought.)  Eventually, the battery becomes useless, and has to be replaced with another expense.  Or, I could plug a wired controller into the console a few feet away, play all day every day without worrying about juice, and not give it a second thought for years.  That's why I consider the MS ban on 3rd-party wireless a blessing.  Looks like that rule may finally bear sweet fruit.  I'm sure hoping the Onza turns out as good as it looks.

W7re, remember this?  I'm not sure how the new 360 D-pad will operate in each mode.  I'm assuming at least one of them will be the traditional 8-way functionality, but without the horrendously poor design exposed in that article.  It's a question of input reliability, something sorely missing in the current MS D-pads.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 10:17:53 AM »
Replacing a battery pack is a lot cheaper than replacing a controller, man. Of course, I'm referring to the PS3 controller, which I do like a lot, but knowing that the controller will inevitably need to be replaced is a downer. However, with a USB cable it becomes a wired controller anyway. The X360 controller gives me a few more options. And it is possible to play while charging, hence the play'n'charge kit, which Microsoft are certainly capitalizing on. Bear in mind, I'm only comparing the X360 wireless to other wireless controllers. Wired controllers undeniably live a lot longer.

Cobra, I think your gripes are with wireless controllers in general. Which I completely agree with, at least until I'm in gaming in my living room and appreciate how convenient going wireless can be. When it comes to my desk I won't accept a wireless mouse and keyboard, let alone a gamepad. For me, it's mainly a question of range rather than having cables around.

I have to say one wireless controller that has lasted with me is the Logitech Cordless RumblePad 2, which I got back in 2004 for $30. It's by far one of the best ones I've used and it works on the PS3. It needs 2 AA batteries, that could be a pro or a con depending on how you look at it. I find it odd that I'm seeing it in all the local stores now for $50 or more! Logitech has it listed at $40!

Offline idolminds

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 10:54:13 AM »
The worst part about the controllers now is they are $50-60. I want a second controller for the PS3 but damn they are expensive.

Offline K-man

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 11:49:54 AM »
The worst part about the controllers now is they are $50-60. I want a second controller for the PS3 but damn they are expensive.

Yeah, I remember back in the day thinking official SNES controllers were expensive. 

Offline scottws

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 12:00:00 PM »
For consoles, I much prefer wireless though I would appreciate the option of going wired if I wanted to.  The thing is, the Xbox pad drains batteries faster than I think a battery discharger would!  That is a downer.  At least the Wii controllers are a little more frugal with their power.

As far as batteries, I've changed from alkaline batteries to those Rayovac Hybrid rechargeable.  It's not as if wireless controllers are the only thing in my house that uses batteries.  This has made it less of a hassle.

Offline K-man

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 12:16:16 PM »
I've used the charging station/battery packs since they were available.  I always found the battery drain to be satisfactory.  I'd have to change one out every couple weeks.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 03:00:47 PM »
The worst part about the controllers now is they are $50-60. I want a second controller for the PS3 but damn they are expensive.
Oh yeah, the prices have gone up at least $10 since 2007. I recall a new PS3 DualShock controller was $40 or so, now they're around $55.

Btw, Cobra, I think you might appreciate how light the standard (non-DualShock) PS3 controller. They're also a bit cheaper than the DualShock controllers. There is a custom driver to get the PS3 controller working on a PC but it has to be wired in via USB, not a big issue.

I'm using the Energizer rechargeable batteries for most of my appliances. They last quite a bit with my X360 Wireless and when necessary I just swap them out. I'm glad the X360 pad automatically switches off when it's idle for a few minutes (5 to 10 mins I think). The PS3 pads got that feature at some point in a firmware update.

I thought about the Logitech Chillstream for PC:

I've heard mixed reviews and I couldn't get any information on whether or not it uses XInput (the X360 pad standard). It's also a little cheaper than the wired X360 pad.

Offline W7RE

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 06:45:59 PM »
I use a standard Xbox 360 controller. I've got 2 battery packs for it (one from the play and charge kit, one came with the charging station), and I keep one in the charging station, the other on my controller. If the lights on the controller start spinning, I swap the battery packs. I also have the wireless dongle so I use my second Xbox 360 controller for my PC (very rarely).

One thing though, is there an easy way to clean around the buttons without taking the controller apart? Somehow something dripped on my controller (not even sure what, it was sitting in the window sill on the garage and some black shit dripped on it, probably tree sap from the tree outside or something) and now a couple of the face buttons stick. I don't have the right tool to unscrew the screws, and I'd rather not open it up if I don't have to anyway. This is my second controller, the one I never use, so it's not a constant nuisance. But the B button in particular sticks bad.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #19 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 08:26:26 AM »
Logitech has released a new set of gamepads: The Wireless Gamepad F710, Rumble Gamepad F510, and Gamepad F310.

Wireless F710

They're basically the same as the old Rumblepads with X360 buttons.. So they're effectively a cross between the PS3 and X360 pads. Wired and Wireless options are always appreciated.

Offline scottws

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #20 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 10:27:09 AM »
Is it solid?  It looks like a piece of junk.

Offline K-man

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #21 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 10:29:19 AM »
If it's anything like the construction of their previous models, probably not.  However, the d-pad is notoriously awful

Offline W7RE

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #22 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 10:40:14 AM »
Left analog stick is in the wrong place and the shape is all wrong.

Need more of this:

[Removed image due to people getting security reports of it being from slashgamer.com, a site known to distribute malware. - Que]
« Last Edit: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 03:22:25 PM by Quemaqua »

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #23 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 04:13:18 PM »
I have the old Cordless RumblePad 2 and it is pretty solid. It feels like a good product. I actually like the d-pad on it a lot. It's a traditional "floating d-pad" not that pivot crap. Supposedly the new F series gamepads have better d-pads (compared to previous gamepads), at least according to the feature list.

I can work with either the X360 or the PS3 controller, the position of the stick/d-pad doesn't really bother me but the symmetry of the PS3 pad is a bit more appealing.

If I can pawn off my current X360 pad I'll go for the F710 or the F510.

Offline W7RE

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #24 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 04:31:45 PM »
My brother recently got a PS3 and I tried out a few demos on it. I really don't like the PS3 controller at all. It's too small, the sticks are convex and loose feeling, and the left stick placement feels awkward after years of using the 360 controller. Oh and the R1/L2 triggers are terrible. If I ever did finally get a PS3 or decide to spend any real time playing my brother's, I would need to find a PS3 controller as close to the Xbox one as possible.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #25 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 06:05:38 PM »
The PS3 controller is notably smaller than the X360 one, which works for me since I have small hands but I'm still alright with the X360 pad. I just don't like to feel like my finders are stretched well-across a gamepad, kinda forcing my hands apart. The Logitech gamepad feels like a good balance between the two; good spacing, comfortable grip, and a great d-pad.

There are quite a few options out there. Even some that are multi-platform (PC/PS3 controllers etc.).

One I found interesting is the Saitek Cyborg which has a reversible d-pad/left analogue stick set. The one I linked is the X360/PC.


This one is PC/PS2/PS3 compliant:

Same idea, the d-pad and left stick are reversible.

EDIT:
Btw, here's an updated hands-on the new X360 pad from Kotaku.
« Last Edit: Friday, September 03, 2010, 06:58:34 PM by Xessive »

Offline scottws

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #26 on: Friday, September 03, 2010, 08:55:55 PM »
If it's anything like the construction of their previous models, probably not.  However, the d-pad is notoriously awful
I'm talking about the Logitech pad idol posted.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #27 on: Saturday, September 04, 2010, 11:24:00 PM »
heh, Xessive posted those.

And its only just now that I've had a look at them. I need to be able to hold one, I want to check that dpad out. But for $35 to get the wired one with rumble, XInput and DirectInput so you can use it with pretty much every game. That would be a great controller for emulators and just games in general. As long as the dpad is good.

How can people still make bad dpads? Honestly.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #28 on: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 10:14:49 AM »
I got my hands on the Logitech F710!

This one:


It's pretty sweet! The comfort of the Logitech Rumblepad 2 and a tiny radio receiver with the option to switch between DirectInput and XInput modes. Needless to say it also has a good old-fashioned D-pad too!

So far so good but I have noticed one tiny hiccup in terms of the XInput detection: it's not quite as foolproof as the X360 gamepad. While most games will work right off the bat (Dead Space 2, LCGOL, Super Meat Boy) but some are a miss i.e. Tom Clancy's HAWX 2, which recognizes the controller but fails to detect the XInput configuration. I'm going to chock that one up to Ubisoft's atrocious history with gamepad detection; most notable issues: Wireless X360 Gamepad not working in some games but the Wired one works perfectly.

One other convenience I like about the Logitech gamepads in general is that the controller goes to sleep if it sits idle for about 5 mins and switches on instantly when I hit any button rather than looking for an ON switch or waiting for it to cycle on like the X360 pad.

After using the X360 pad for so long I'm gonna have to get used to the F710's shape and triggers. It is noticeably wider than the X360 pad and my tiny hands stretch around it fully, my fingertips landing squarely on the L and R triggers. It's just a matter of getting accustomed to the shape.

I'm optimistic but I'm gonna test it out throughout the week and and see how I ultimately feel about it.

Offline Xessive

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Razer Onza
« Reply #29 on: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 02:45:54 PM »
Ok, so I finally got my paws on the Razer Onza Tournament Edition (TE)!

It is certainly a unique X360 controller. Its shape is very similar to the basic X360 pad with subtle ridges around the back. It has a rubberized texture all over the pad, which has a nice feel to it.

Let me discuss the triggers before I get to the face of the pad. The triggers are very pronounced, they curve out and actually have notches that extend beyond the pad itself. It took a little bit of getting used to for me since I have a habit of resting my index fingers just below the X360 pad's triggers, however with the Onza I had to stop doing that because my fingers would get caught on those notches, so I planted them firmly on or above the triggers.

Nestled above the triggers are the LB and RB shoulder buttons which click just like the X360 pad. Just abpove them you have another set of modifiable shoulder buttons LMFB and RMFB, which can be set to mimic any other button the pad on-the-fly, without any software. In total you have 6 buttons/triggers on the top of the Onza.

Now, the face buttons. They're back-lit in the traditional Xbox button colours but more surprising for me is that they're not traditional buttons at all! They're highly sensitive clickers like a mouse's buttons. This could be a good or bad thing depending on your preference. I've tested them out with basic gameplay and with button-mashing scenarios and they work really well overall, bringing it back to a matter of preference. Not really sure if they improved my response time in Quick-Time-Events.

The analogue sticks' tips are coated with a texture that gives them a silicon-like consistency, they almost stick to my thumbs. In the Tournament Edition of the Onza they also have dials that allow you to adjust their resistance or stiffness. They click in normally too.

The d-pad. That's where I'm conflicted about the Onza. The d-pad is actually made up of 4 individual buttons. It is essentially the complete opposite of the basic X360 pivoted d-pad. The good things is that any d-pad button presses are very deliberate, you won't be accidentally hitting diagonals; if you want a diagonal you specifically push the two appropriate buttons for the diagonal you want, works really well in Batman: Arkham Asylum when I'm selecting gear. On the down side, this breaks up any d-pad flow which would be necessary for certain games i.e. Street Fighter.

The position of the Start and Back buttons is now below the d-pad and right-stick. It's a bit of a radical location change that may take some getting used to since both the X360 and PS3 pads place these buttons closer to the centre of their faces, surrounding the HOME button.

All in all, the Onza is a pretty decent pad. At the same price-point of wired X360 pad it would make the better choice; any more than $50 would be asking too much for a wired gamepad (even though the Onza sports a 15-foot braided fibre cable). Also, may be worth noting that the Onza does have a slot for 2.5mm headphone jack.

My personal preference still goes to the X360 Special Edition transforming d-pad for its fantastic d-pad, wireless, and trigger-comfort. As far as wired controllers go it'll be tough to beat the Onza TE at $50 and $40 for the regular edition (TE has adjustable resistance analogue sticks, rubberized texture, and back-lit face buttons).

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #30 on: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 02:55:59 PM »
Good stuff.  Thanks for the review.  I hope to pick one of those up sometime.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Microsoft Reveals New 360 Controller With Transforming D-Pad
« Reply #31 on: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 03:29:47 PM »
Good stuff.  Thanks for the review.  I hope to pick one of those up sometime.
Any time :) Let us know what you think of it!