Topic: Duke Nukem Forever: May 3rd!

[K-man]

So it ended up being a huge steaming pile of shit.

There's a shocker.

[Cobra951]

What a disappointment.  Has anything with that much of a troubled history ever worked out well?

[MysterD]

Joystiq -> 2 stars.

[idolminds]

From Joystiq:

A big part of the problem is actually the game's one truly distinguishing feature: its attitude, or at least its attempt at one. Times have changed, but the character of Duke Nukem -- his quips lifted from countless '80s and '90s era action films and his objectification of women equaled only by older Arnold Schwarzenegger roles -- is stuck in a bygone era. Jokes that may have spurred laughter all those years ago simply had me shaking my head, wondering if even a 12-year-old would find them funny ... even though, at that age, they wouldn't be able to buy the M-rated title. But why have that rating, even? If anything, a largely bloodless game that has its tone set in the opening moments when the player is instructed to pull the right trigger to take a piss, and can pick up – then throw – a piece of human poop from a toilet just moments later, is surely just ture. That could really be said about its writing and design in general. Want to play the true successor to Duke Nukem 3D? It's called Bulletstorm.

So Duke is totally low brow and crude, and thats bad. Then you point at Bulletstorm? "Dicktits" Bulletstorm? "You scared the dick off me" Bulletstorm?

[MysterD]

From Joystiq: So Duke is totally low brow and crude, and thats bad. Then you point at Bulletstorm? "Dicktits" Bulletstorm? "You scared the dick off me" Bulletstorm?

I think his point is everything about DNF is completely out-of-touch and old, when compared to Bulletstorm - the graphics, the writing, and the game design.

[K-man]

I think the point is, "One of these games took the spirit of a 15 year old game and did something that took it to the next level, is engaging, and works.  The other is Duke Nukem Forever"

[K-man]

I completely posted that without looking at D's post, btw.  Creepy.

[MysterD]

I think the point is, "One of these games took the spirit of a 15 year old game and did something that took it to the next level, is engaging, and works.  The other is Duke Nukem Forever"

Agreed.
He explained the reasons for his opinion on Bulletstorm being DNF's successor in the paragraph following his statement.

[idolminds]

From a gameplay perspective I have no doubt Bulletstorm is more modern. But I took that paragraph to talk about the "attitude" and humor of Duke and then compared it to Bulletstorm as if one wasn't immature.

[MysterD]

From a gameplay perspective I have no doubt Bulletstorm is more modern. But I took that paragraph to talk about the "attitude" and humor of Duke and then compared it to Bulletstorm as if one wasn't immature.

The whole entire article from start to finish talks about how OLD everything is - repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly. Sometimes, he's quite in your face w/ it - sometimes, it's subtle. "Everything about DNF is OLD" is basically the theme of this entire review.

That paragraph subtlety is talking about the AGE of Duke's attitude - from the 80's and 90's era of action movies w/ Arnold. It's OLD and been done before (especially by obviously Duke Nukem 3D). He throws into the 12 year old line purposely - to mention how out of touch kids playing this game would NOT "get" Duke...and likely probably all the pop culture references he'll make to much older stuff. These jokes won't be funny to them - it'll fly over their heads.
 
That paragraph you quotes - especially w/ the [jaw-dropping] final thesis statement - was also a set-up for the following paragraph, where he displays why he prefers Bulletstorm.

[Quemaqua]

I like how D thinks he needs to explain the article to us.

[Xessive]

I don't know why everyone's having such a bad time with it, I'm enjoying it! It feels like Duke with a modern twist.

In terms of graphics, I like them. I keep hearing "dated" the visuals are but honestly I don't see it. The graphics are the same awesome ones we've seen in the videos over the last 6 months (and the demo), so I don't understand why the complaints are coming now and not when the first screens/footage were seen. It could be linked to the ignorant minds out there, for example my own brother cannot distinguish between art style and technical graphics so he often says stuff like "These graphics are crap!" when he actually means that the art style doesn't appeal to him i.e. comparing Mirror's Edge to God of War 1. He also mistakenly judges a game's graphics based on pre-rendered cutscenes etc.

The only issues I'm having with DNF are some technical bugs, like the nearly-game-breaking input lock bug, which apparently seems linked to the Steam Overlay. Basically, after the loading sequence all controls will be locked and I can't even open the menu, the only option is to Alt+F4 out of the game. The current workaround is to wait for the loading to complete, then right after I hit space to continue I switch to the Steam Overlay, once the game screen fades in I can switch back and everything is dandy. Kinda annoying but I expect this will be addressed in a patch.

[Quemaqua]

Now I haven't played the game or the demo, but personally, I expected this game would get leveled just because everyone seems to want it to fail. I don't really know why everyone seems personally insulted about all the stuff it went through, but people sometimes jump on bandwagons when it comes to bashing something, even when there's no real good reason for it. A lot of people don't even give something a chance when the tide starts to sway in a negative direction, and just jump on board with where the general consensus seems to be.

Either way, I'll reserve judgment until I actually play it, but I don't find the negative reception at all surprising. And I'm betting that I'm going to enjoy it just fine because I *like* old-school shooters and there haven't been that many decent ones of late. The stupid humor probably isn't going to do a whole hell of a lot for me, but it never really did, to be perfectly honest. It was mildly amusing, but I was mostly there to shoot shit. And the setting and concept were funny, and also nostalgic because I was one of the relatively few who'd played every last bit of Duke up to that point, the original PC episodes and the awesome-for-its-time Duke 2.

[MysterD]

I don't know why everyone's having such a bad time with it, I'm enjoying it! It feels like Duke with a modern twist.

B/c people are spending $50-60 on what they feel should be a masterpiece for a game in the making for over 14 F'N years.

[Quemaqua]

I'm pretty sure that anyone who expected it to be a "masterpiece" is a fucking idiot and deserves to have wasted their money.

[MysterD]

I'm pretty sure that anyone who expected it to be a "masterpiece" is a fucking idiot and deserves to have wasted their money.

I'm betting this is what people want after 14+ years...a masterpiece.

I'm hoping the full version is really somewhere close to PC Gamer's review (80%).
Definitely waiting for price-drop.

[idolminds]

I think that's one thing that's going to make review really mixed-to-negative. People have built up this image in their head about what this game should be like after 14 years of development and instead of judging the game simply on its own merits they will compare it to this fantasy game that nothing can actually live up to.

[Xessive]

I'm treating it like it was in development for 2-3 years (since Gearbox got it) just because I feel it would be unfair to put the entire history of DNF on Gearbox's rendition. Aside from the IP, how much of 3DRealms' material is in there?

The game now feels like Gearbox's offspring. Much of the humour is typically Duke Nukem style but knowing Randy Pitchford, you really start to see Gearbox's influence. They have taken shots are everything with DNF! Dead Space, Halo, and even Christian Bale are indirectly referenced in DNF! It's pretty funny.

[Cobra951]

B/c people are spending $50-60 on what they feel should be a masterpiece for a game in the making for over 14 F'N years.

I would spend $50-60 only on a masterpiece now.  Everything else has to be way cheaper.  I wasn't expecting a masterpiece, but I had hoped for at least very good.  What I'm reading here is that the game is getting slammed mostly for its age, not its gameplay or technology.  I have to try the demo (if I ever stop refusing the Xbox Spring update).  If that goes well, then I'll wait for the price to drop.  With the bad reviews, that may not take long.

[MysterD]

I would spend $50-60 only on a masterpiece now.  Everything else has to be way cheaper.

Agreed.
Especially in this era where games can drop in price really fast - especially on the PC.

[MysterD]

Eurogamer -> 3 [out of 10].

[Please note that we reviewed the game on Xbox 360, but Digital Foundry's Richard Leadbetter informs us that the PC version plays much better. "It's a complete mess on 360 - sub-HD resolutions, hugely obtrusive screen-tear, terrible aliasing, low frame rate," he says. "All of these things can be remedied by playing the game on PC. It doesn't transform it into a good game, but it makes it much easier on the eye and certainly smoother, far more responsive and thus more enjoyable to play." Look out for Rich's full Duke Nukem Forever Face-Off very soon. -Ed.]

EDIT:
Wall Street Journal - "Not worth the wait."

[Xessive]

Everybody seems fixated on the idea that the game was in development for 12-14 years and therefore it must be phenomenal. However, the truth is the game has only been technically in development since Gearbox bought the IP and revived the long dead project, which was about 2 years ago.

I'm enjoying it so far. It does seem a little archaic, using some old-fashioned gaming conventions but it's not necessarily bad. I haven't finished it yet but so far it's rating about 7/10 so far.

EDIT:
I just wanted to add that no matter what the general reception of the game is, Gearbox will bear the merit of resuscitating the dead franchise. Even if the masses dislike it, the few fans who do like it will recognize that and keep Gearbox on the radar.

[Cobra951]

"It's a complete mess on 360 . . ."

Then I'll never buy it at any price.

[MysterD]

REVIEWS
Destructoid -> 2 [of 10].
The Escapist -> 2 stars (of 5).
Cheat Code Central -> 2.6 (out of 5).
GamePro -> X360 and PS3 - 3 stars (out of 5).
Bit-Tech -> 50% [out of 100].
IGN - X360 Review - 5.5 [out of 10].
Strategy Informer -> 7.0 (out of 10) - X360.; PS3; PC.
ThunderBoltGames.com -> 7 [out of 10].
Gamers-Underground.com -> 86 [out of 100].

Shacknews -> No score, but it is not a good review...


From CTRL + ALT + DEL.

[K-man]

I'll actually probably give this a shot at some point.  I'm sure it'll hit the bargain bins quickly, and I have a soft spot for 90's shooters.  Despite what I said in my first post in this thread...

I mean hell I fully intend to get around to playing the Wolfenstein reboot at some point as well.

But yeah, a game with this much of a troubled history has never worked out well.  Once you start rolling through generations of engines, technology, etc then shit just gets convoluted.  Too many people have their hands on it, and it just never works out.  Game mechanics that are initially introduced are probably revolutionary, but by the time the game hits they are old hat.

[scottws]

I'll actually probably give this a shot at some point.  I'm sure it'll hit the bargain bins quickly, and I have a soft spot for 90's shooters.  Despite what I said in my first post in this thread...

I mean hell I fully intend to get around to playing the Wolfenstein reboot at some point as well.

But yeah, a game with this much of a troubled history has never worked out well.  Once you start rolling through generations of engines, technology, etc then shit just gets convoluted.  Too many people have their hands on it, and it just never works out.  Game mechanics that are initially introduced are probably revolutionary, but by the time the game hits they are old hat.

From what I've read, this is a mirror image of the Daikatana situation.  Lengthy development time, multiple engine switches, and then disappointment with the end result.

That said, I was a big time 90's gamer, so I have a special place in my heart for Duke Nukem.  I will definitely be getting this.

[Xessive]

That seems to be the demographic that's actually enjoying DNF: people who liked DN3D or 90's shooters in general.

Also, if you're looking for the X360 experience without the buggy X360 version of the game the PC version is fully compatible with the X360 gamepad. Even though it is a shooter, the game's pretty couch-gameplay-friendly. This is one of the few shooters I can actually play sitting back comfortably rather than my usual upright-get-in-gear-shooter-game position.

[Cobra951]

It may be compatible with the pad, but surely not my ancient PC.  I'd love to try it on a good PC.

[Xessive]

It may be compatible with the pad, but surely not my ancient PC.  I'd love to try it on a good PC.

Oh yeah.. Hmm, can your PC run Borderlands? If it can you're in luck! If not, then.. yeah.. as you said.

[MysterD]

USA Today -> Interview w/ Allen Blum, the only employee who started and finished working on DNF.

[MysterD]

GameSpot REVIEW
PC Review - 3.5 [of 10].
X360 - 3.0.

[scottws]

GameSpot
PC Review - 3.5 [of 10].
X360 - 3.0.

Ouch. Pretty scathing.  I guess this is why 3D Realms took so long with it.  They just couldn't get their ideas to gel.

[MysterD]

1Up -> F grade.
ArsTechnica -> "Skip" this game.
GiantBomb -> 2 stars (of 5).
Videogametalk.com -> 1.5 [of 5]
Hooked Gamers -> 5 [of 10].
Gamesradar - 6 [of 10].

[Xessive]

Ouch, that's pretty harsh.

Visually, I think the game does a decent job. It's not phenomenal but it's not bad. The only criticism I'd make is the Depth of Field blur is a bit too much e.g. almost everything is blurry but the item directly under your crosshairs.

I have to try out the multiplayer and see how that pans out.

[scottws]

It's getting pretty bad reviews almost everywhere, with the best being just mediocre.  But the comments offer some hope.  They mostly say that the reviewers basically don't get it and that while it isn't a great game it isn't as bad as the media sites are making it seem.

[Xessive]

Yeah, that's my reaction! I'll admit it's not a mind-blowing revolution in gaming but it's not crap either.

My guess is that the major sum of the low scores is due to the high expectations people had for a game that's "been in development for over 12 years" which as I've stated before is an unfair assessment. According to these reactions DNF is worse than The Matrix: Path of Neo or even Daikatana! CURSE YOU DAIKATANA AND JOHN ROMERO!! Which is just not true. It's not perfect but it is far from shite. Bear in mind I am only speaking on my experience with the PC version of the game.

[MysterD]

GameSpy - 2½ stars [of 5].

[Xessive]

That cat's meow:

Duke Nukem's PR Team Turns Hostile after Bad Reviews

Anyone in need of a lesson in how not to use Twitter or any Web 2.0 outlet to promote a product, here it is. Following the backlash of bad and sometimes venomous reviews of Duke Nukem Forever, the game that, in a sense, has been 14 years in the making, Duke's PR team responded with a knee-jerk Twitter post essentially threatening to blacklist reviewers who were overly critical of DNF from receiving future games.

"#AlwaysBetOnDuke too many went too far with their reviews...we r reviewing who gets games next time and who doesn't based on today's venom," @TheRednerGroup tweeted.

[PyroMenace]

Yea there is a story on Giantbomb about it. It was just one guy I think, and the PR group has been dropped from 2K games. I mean I know it has to suck being PR for DNF right now, but he did take it too far.

[Quemaqua]

I can see where he's coming from. It's one thing for a game to get some bad reviews, it's another for a shitstorm like this to happen. As I said, I'm pretty well convinced most reviewers have just jumped on board a bandwagon, and in this industry, it's perfectly acceptable to rip something to absolute shreds in outright hostile fashion, as though the people who made the game raped your mother or killed your dog. It'd be pretty hard not to take that personally if you were involved in something. You'd just have to remember that you're a professional and suck it up. That guy obviously forgot how to do that, and I'll bet his parent company has offered him a severance package already.