Topic: Piracy is not theft; piracy is piracy

[Cobra951]

“Piracy is not theft,” he said. Referencing the most common anti-piracy argument, he said: “If you steal a car, the original is lost. If you copy a game, there are simply more of them in the world.”

“There is no such thing as a ‘lost sale’,” he said, debunking another popular myth. “Is a bad review a lost sale? What about a missed ship date?”

Edge quotes Markus Persson

Interesting that he would be so up front about it, and even more interesting what he compared to piracy.   I really wanted to post this in this thread, but decided it was too much of a necro-bump.

Edit:  I'm going to quote in full a post related to this story.  It has added something to my mental horizons.  I hope you find it worth the significant time to read.

Are people saying that physical scarcity is present in digital property again?

*sighs heavily.*

If people could argue this honestly and/or intelligently it would really be something, but so long as one side keeps insisting that scarcity exists in digital property, it’ll never be a serious argument and one side of the argument will always be a complete joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity

It’s a good idea to read and understand that for the sake of everyone involved. In other words, scarcity isn’t involved in digital media because digital media isn’t scarce, it’s abundant to the point of total ubiquity, this disincludes scarcity as an element of economy.

To try to get people on board with the problem and the solution, I’ll try and provide the most low-tech example possible. So try to stick with me, here. Imagine a Renaissance setting where a bard sings a tale. Now if someone were to memorise that tale and sing it almost exactly the same, with almost the same level of talent, then that would’ve been that era’s version of piracy.

Yet people would still go and listen to the bard and pay him for his efforts. Why? The bard is a likable person, and there’s something in the reproduced versions of the song going around that isn’t quite the same. They’re not coming from the bard, and people are loyal to him.

Now the next thing to read and hopefully understand is this:

http://blog.agoeldi.com/2009/08/11/the-new-scarcity-in-the-world-of-digital-media/

That makes the point that loyalty is important, now Valve are the modern-day bard, because they’re making a profit from a field where there is piracy. How? They’re being more likable than those who’re producing replicas of the song, they’re also ensuring that everyone who deals with them receives the best version of that song possible.

They do this by making purchase and content delivery easier than piracy, and they keep their prices reasonable, in this way they realise that piracy isn’t an issue. Piracy isn’t a lost sale, piracy is a potential sale, so there’s no point in making enemies of pirates.

Now, stick with me!

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/01/19/valve-pirates-are-underserved-customers/

Pirates are underserved customers. Piracy isn’t a lost sale, it’s a potential sale. There you have Valve, the bard, saying the same thing that I am, and this is why they’re being so successful in the PC field.

If piracy exists, it’s for three reasons:

1. Game developers/publishers are making enemies out of people.

The whole attitude about how all PC gamers are actually pirates doesn’t help with this. Note what Notch did there, he generated a large amount of positive karma, and that’s going to turn into attention, attention will then turn into loyalty and money.

Less attention means less loyalty, which in turn in this new digital world means less money.

2. Piracy is easier than the alternatives.

If piracy ever becomes easier than buying a game, then the publisher has lost due to their own stupidity. This is why people should keep away from using their own distribution platforms and arcane, draconian DRM systems and simply use Steam.

If someone buys a Ubisoft game and finds that they can barely play it due to the always on DRM, they won’t buy another Ubisoft game, but they might pirate them. What’s happening here is that the publisher is making piracy easier than being legitimate.

The only person hurting the publisher in this case is the publisher (see: Valve).

3. Keep prices reasonable, there is no scarcity.

If you keep a price reasonable then it will sell more. Valve realise this with sales, but if you release a game at £40 for the PC and don’t offer any preorder cuts or sales on it, then people will see that as price-gouging and they won’t bother with it. They may pirate it or they may not. It’s a lost sale because that one unit, that person, couldn’t afford the cover price.

Not everyone lives in a stable financial ecosystem, people lose jobs, some people only have ancient PCs for which they can only barely afford the occasional game for.

Now, if a developer is friendly, makes purchasing easy, and keeps the price reasonable then piracy ceases to be an issue. Let’s take a real world example: The Humble Indie Bundle. This was run by Wolfire who’re really good at being well loved – mostly because they know how to treat people like people. They talk on their forums, on their own meebo thing, they post snippets from meebo (I love those), and they answer mails. They’re always friendly and inviting. The Humble Indie Bundle was a success because Wolfire is Wolfire.

The Humble Indie Bundle didn’t have any security surrounding the games, either, as it was simple to access them by anyone, there was no DRM there either, and more importantly the price was reasonable. In fact, Wolfire even said that they’d cover the cost of the bundle for whomever couldn’t afford it. And they still turned a profit. They turned a profit as large publishers are crying about piracy and hateful PC gamers. Figure that one out (with the materials provided thus far, you should be able to).

Now then, rounding this up in a wonderful crescendo – NOTCH. Look at Notch, what is Notch doing? Can anyone tell me? Notch is accruing loyalty and attention. One of the articles that you hopefully read and understood explains this. He’s not making enemies from those who might instead be potential sales.

Instead, someone thinks that that Notch guy is alright and they buy his game instead of pirating it, or they toss a donation his way, because he’s likable, he’s making fun things, he’s keeping those fun things accessible, and he’s not overcharging for them. And perhaps mainstream publishers would have less to cry about it if they followed the example of Notch and Valve.

Now, in closing? @1 – if Notch is a hipppie tool, then so too is Valve!

The truth: Not everyone understands the economics of this new, digital world, and these people are luddites. The sooner they understand this and start reading and learning, the better the world will be, and if they don’t then they’ll simply become obsolete as the world rolls on and leaves them behind.

Notch is doing the right thing, for all the right reasons.

Source

[idolminds]

Its amazing that we still need to make that distinction and people argue over it. Its the only reason copyright laws even exist. If it was theft...well, we already had laws for that.

[Pugnate]

Just because you are stealing something you can't touch doesn't mean you aren't stealing it.

There.

[bullshark]

Justification of unethical behavior is an interesting thing to see, especially on such a wide scale.  I enjoyed the three reasons cited for the existence of piracy and the novel solutions to the problem.  I think there are some other factors involved but these are some interesting points and to be honest, I've never thought about the problem in that manner.  Unfortunately I can't help but think that corporations will continue to try and bulldoze their way through this issue rather than use some creative thinking as the author quoted suggests.

[W7RE]

You know, I've pirated games before. I know it's wrong, but I've done it. It doesn't really bother me that much when I talk to someone and they say they pirated a game.

But I know a few people who pirate everything, unless they just can't (like MMOs for example, that doesn't work unless you play on a private server). It really bothers me when I'm told I'm stupid because I spend money on single player games that I could easily pirate. Or because I'm still using Windows XP because more recent Windows versions are too expensive, and won't just go download Windows 7.

If you want to pirate some software, fine, do it. Just don't pretend I'm doing something odd or wrong because I'm NOT doing it.




Honestly, that is what bothers me the most about piracy.

[bullshark]

You know, I've pirated games before. I know it's wrong, but I've done it. It doesn't really bother me that much when I talk to someone and they say they pirated a game.

But I know a few people who pirate everything, unless they just can't (like MMOs for example, that doesn't work unless you play on a private server). It really bothers me when I'm told I'm stupid because I spend money on single player games that I could easily pirate. Or because I'm still using Windows XP because more recent Windows versions are too expensive, and won't just go download Windows 7.

If you want to pirate some software, fine, do it. Just don't pretend I'm doing something odd or wrong because I'm NOT doing it.




Honestly, that is what bothers me the most about piracy.

I feel you, it's like the tenth grade never ends...

[Xessive]

Justification of unethical behavior is an interesting thing to see, especially on such a wide scale.  I enjoyed the three reasons cited for the existence of piracy and the novel solutions to the problem.  I think there are some other factors involved but these are some interesting points and to be honest, I've never thought about the problem in that manner.  Unfortunately I can't help but think that corporations will continue to try and bulldoze their way through this issue rather than use some creative thinking as the author quoted suggests.

I like CDProjeckt and CDProjekt RED's approach to the situation. They acknowledge that piracy exists but they intend to compete with it rather than point fingers or accuse players. They've stated before that penalizing legitimate buyers is not the way and they continue to stand by their statements with GOG.com and the upcoming The Witcher 2 by basically abolishing DRM completely.

[MysterD]

I agree w/ what X says above - and this is truly why I will continue to support CDP.

[Pugnate]

You know, I've pirated games before. I know it's wrong, but I've done it. It doesn't really bother me that much when I talk to someone and they say they pirated a game.

But I know a few people who pirate everything, unless they just can't (like MMOs for example, that doesn't work unless you play on a private server). It really bothers me when I'm told I'm stupid because I spend money on single player games that I could easily pirate. Or because I'm still using Windows XP because more recent Windows versions are too expensive, and won't just go download Windows 7.

If you want to pirate some software, fine, do it. Just don't pretend I'm doing something odd or wrong because I'm NOT doing it.




Honestly, that is what bothers me the most about piracy.

THANK YOU for saying that.

Sometimes this is why I believe so many people across the internet, and even some here, try to discount the effect piracy has on sales. I'd say it is guilt. I buy a helluva lot of games, but I know that many people here have admitted to pirating plenty. And in my college days, if I was buying 2 to 3 full price games a month, I was copying half as many. I would have probably bought 50% of the games I pirated had I not been able to pirate them.

[iPPi]

[Cobra951]

THANK YOU for saying that.

Sometimes this is why I believe so many people across the internet, and even some here, try to discount the effect piracy has on sales. I'd say it is guilt. I buy a helluva lot of games, but I know that many people here have admitted to pirating plenty. And in my college days, if I was buying 2 to 3 full price games a month, I was copying half as many. I would have probably bought 50% of the games I pirated had I not been able to pirate them.

Guilt?  No, I don't think so.  It's more of a "WTF is the big deal?"  The rivers of corporate propaganda simply don't wash.  There's as much guilt involved while picking up the loose change you find while strolling down the sidewalk.

I didn't say much about my first post, thinking that it speaks for itself.  It is one huge wall of text, so maybe I should talk about it a bit.  The "aha!" moment comes from a shift in how to think about the unstoppable copying of content.  In short, fighting against it is like fighting against raindrops.  Instead, you should use it to your advantage.  There is no scarcity of digital content.  It can be duplicated infinitely with no loss of quality.  There is no distribution issue at all.  The consumer will do most of the work for you.  What is needed is a new way of thinking about the phenomenon.  Rather than holding on to an archaic rule set which ill fits the digital medium, adopt a new one which allows generating revenue out of it.  While the digital goods are not scarce, you still have scarcity of loyalty and attention.  If you get people's attention, and promote their loyalty, you start to reap huge monetary rewards.  Examples of winners in this new philosophy:  Valve (Steam) and "Notch" Persson (Minecraft).  Those who fight the tide will get washed away over time.

[MysterD]

I think there's a few of the biggest problems w/ piracy.

One - Impatience. This is the whole "I can get it online now, download it, and not wait for the game literally to get to retail or for a digital pre-load and unlock" factor. Most games, they seem to be leaked out before the game winds up on the shelves, digitally or at brick & mortar retailers. Often, this leak seems to be around the time reviewers get an early copy or around the time b/t a Game Goes Gold Announcement and Street Date occurs factor. Somehow, it's getting out there.

Two - No DRM around leaked version. You can't beat NO DRM. So, it's either a leaked version that never got any DRM wrapped around it or someone already cracked the DRM. Regardless - less bullshit to deal when NO DRM is involved.

Three - Piracy takes no money out of the pirate's pocket, wallet, or credit card.

Four - No benefits in buying legit version. If the pirated version is the same as the retail or digital versions, what's the point? Programs like Steam and Impulse have their own benefits built right into the client program. Sometimes things like DLC, extra content, and other factors - these can lead to people to buy the legit version.

[ScaryTooth]

Piracy is theft...period. But there are a few instances where I think it's okay, but just a few.

A recent experience I had. Rented a movie, put it in, we sit down to watch it, and there are 20 minutes of previews that I could not skip. I legit rented it at Family video. I assume the retail is the same thing. You paid for the movie, so you can watch it, it is now yours, it should be illegal to force a person who legally purchased it to watch all of the advertisements before the movie. You can put them there, fine, but do not make it unskippable. <---Don't think thats a word.

[idolminds]

Theft:
the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

Note: this doesnt make piracy ok, but lets not use terms where they dont apply.

[Cobra951]

Piracy is theft...period. But there are a few instances where I think it's okay, but just a few.

A recent experience I had. Rented a movie, put it in, we sit down to watch it, and there are 20 minutes of previews that I could not skip. I legit rented it at Family video. I assume the retail is the same thing. You paid for the movie, so you can watch it, it is now yours, it should be illegal to force a person who legally purchased it to watch all of the advertisements before the movie. You can put them there, fine, but do not make it unskippable. <---Don't think thats a word.

2. Piracy is easier than the alternatives.

If piracy ever becomes easier than buying a game, then the publisher has lost due to their own stupidity. This is why people should keep away from using their own distribution platforms and arcane, draconian DRM systems and simply use Steam.

If someone buys a Ubisoft game and finds that they can barely play it due to the always on DRM, they won’t buy another Ubisoft game, but they might pirate them. What’s happening here is that the publisher is making piracy easier than being legitimate.

Game, or movie.  Applies equally.