Topic: XCOM: Enemy Unknown

[Cools!]

This game makes me want to play Freedom Force

[scottws]

I'm playing on PC and I am having major problems with the controls in areas where there is a roof.  When there are buildings or alien ships with overhead coverage, I can never seem to get the cursor in the right place.  It seems if I go to the current level I can place the cursor on the level I want, but all I can see is the upper level (roof or upper floor) and it doesn't show me how far I can go or what the defense is at the square the cursor is at.

I also have a lot of technical issues such as people not even shooting in the direction of the alien they are targeting, missing particle effects on shots, textures that load in really blurry, times when it says "Alien Activity" but seems to pause for 10 - 15 seconds before doing anything, and the screen often doesn't center on the active soldier. The game seems to have a lot of technical issues for me and could really use a patch.

The game is fun, but sometimes I feel like I am fighting the game rather than playing it.

Edit:  I just loaded my game and it said "StrategyTips[5]" at the bottom of the loading screen.  For those that know programming, you'll recognize that as a call to an item in an array.  The enduser should never see something like that.

[Quemaqua]

The roof areas are a touch annoying, yeah. You have to use the keys to cycle the levels, but sometimes it switches when you don't want it to. I've also experienced the occasional maybe 5-10 second pause during the alien turn, but nothing else that you've mentioned.

[scottws]

It's not really that it switches to a level other than the one I want.  I can cope with that.  It's that I see the roof instead of the floor I'm on and I can't see where I'm going.  Usually I can select the floor below my own and see, but then it wants to move my guys to the level below and I usually don't want that.

The original game had a button you could toggle that displayed or hid the top of the floor/roof above.  I wish there was something like that in this game.

[Xessive]

Accessing elevations with the mouse is a little frustrating. I get that scrolling the wheel switches between the levels but it doesn't work quite as smoothly as up and down on the d-pad.

A few times on my turn the camera wouldn't centre on the selected soldier (after inputting commands for the previous soldier) but I learned to pay attention to the selection circle around a soldier's feet.

The game certainly plays out much more smoothly with a gamepad but the PC controls are not so terrible that it's stopping me from playing, they just leave a lot to be desired.

[Quemaqua]

I'm not really following you at all. The game has buttons that swap the floors your cursor is on, allowing you to see whatever floor you want.

And there are keyboard keys that do it also I believe, not just the wheel or whatever.

Can you customize keys in the game? You couldn't in the demo, that pissed me off.

[scottws]

I have no problem switching floors, as I said.  The scroll wheel handles that.  The problem is, for example, sometimes my squad is on the middle floor of a two-floor alien ship and even though the middle floor is the selected level, the ship's roof above my head is visible on screen.  Since my guys are inside the ship, under the visible roof, I cannot see the layout of the rooms and cover of the ship I'm in and moving around is basically guesswork.

If I view the lowest level, that will make the roof invisible and I can see my guys.  But with the lower level active, it doesn't let me place the cursor where I want my squadmate to go since the cursor is on a level lower than where he or she is standing.  So I have to flip back-and-forth between the lowest level (so I can see) and the middle level (so I can move where I want).  Sometimes I guess wrong and my dude isn't in cover.  In these cases, only placing the cursor at the lowest level (again via the scroll wheel) does the roof disappear so I can see.  Levels 2 and 3 show the roof.  It is extremely annoying.

Regarding the centering, the camera frequently doesn't center on the active soldier for me either; however, I found that you can click on the soldier's name in the lower-left part of the screen and it will center the view on them.  Pretty handy.

[Xessive]

I have no problem switching floors, as I said.  The scroll wheel handles that.  The problem is, for example, sometimes my squad is on the middle floor of a two-floor alien ship and even though the middle floor is the selected level, the ship's roof above my head is visible on screen.  Since my guys are inside the ship, under the visible roof, I cannot see the layout of the rooms and cover of the ship I'm in and moving around is basically guesswork.

If I view the lowest level, that will make the roof invisible and I can see my guys.  But with the lower level active, it doesn't let me place the cursor where I want my squadmate to go since the cursor is on a level lower than where he or she is standing.  So I have to flip back-and-forth between the lowest level (so I can see) and the middle level (so I can move where I want).  Sometimes I guess wrong and my dude isn't in cover.  In these cases, only placing the cursor at the lowest level (again via the scroll wheel) does the roof disappear so I can see.  Levels 2 and 3 show the roof.  It is extremely annoying.

Regarding the centering, the camera frequently doesn't center on the active soldier for me either; however, I found that you can click on the soldier's name in the lower-left part of the screen and it will center the view on them.  Pretty handy.

Yeah that would get pretty annoying. Damn.

With the centering issue I usually just hit Tab/Shift to swap quickly. It seems it's just minor interface issues that are getting in the way of the game's experience.

Btw Que, on the PC version I'm not seeing the common Unreal Engine texture pop-in problem or at least it's not as emphasized as it is in other UE games.

[Quemaqua]

That's weird scott, I've not experienced anything like that at all. I don't remember experiencing it in the demo either. I wonder what's causing it.

Yeah X, the texture pop is obviously gonna be way worse on console, though that's really one of the very few issues I've had. Mostly the game's been very solid and not hiccuped for me at all.

[scottws]

Luckily it doesn't happen every time or even most of the time.  I'd say it happens on about 1/3 of levels where I go inside of a multi-floor ship.  Once it happens, it has that behavior the remainder of the entire level.  It is infuriating.

I'd love to figure out what is triggering it.  Hopefully it gets addressed in a future patch.

[scottws]

This is exactly what I am talking about:  http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?157261-I-m-sick-of-looking-at-the-roof

[sirean_syan]

I have that issue as well. I am constantly switching through the levels to get to a point where I can see my troops and as soon as I move someone the camera always shifts up at least one level as soon as they start to run. It's easily the worst thing about the game.

The other side of that is when giving move orders near ledges the cursor often decides to select the floor below even though even though it is blocked from view by the upper floor. Usually, that's where I want to be because it the high ground is better for firefights and being below would put a trooper in the open. I can select what I want by rotating the camera so no layers are competing with each other, but I generally have be totally on top of what I'm doing. At least three times I've accidentally thrown someone out in the open and lost a someone at least once when the move counted as a dash (thankfully a rookie, so I didn't bother going back). Still, its usually always enough to give me a scare.

I wonder if I would be having these issues with the controller. It seems like the camera somewhat decides where to be depending on where the cursor is. Since a mouse always moves around a ton it could be in some place that is (somehow) better to view from the roof. If that's the case, I suspect camera priority was decided around the controller input instead of the subject in focus. There have been plenty of tactical games with multiple levels before, but they just forced the camera to stay at one level unless you manually moved it up or down. Maybe Fraxis was going for something more dynamic but I wish I had the option for more manual control.

[Quemaqua]

I'd try using a controller anyway, it's much easier. You don't have to worry near as much about accidentally selecting the wrong thing since it "snaps" to cover points. I found it considerably easier than mouse/kb with the demo. That issue does sound annoying as hell.

[Xessive]

I'd try using a controller anyway, it's much easier. You don't have to worry near as much about accidentally selecting the wrong thing since it "snaps" to cover points. I found it considerably easier than mouse/kb with the demo. That issue does sound annoying as hell.

I agree with Que. Yesterday I spent about 30 mins in XCOM with each control scheme and I found that I make noticeably less mistakes with the gamepad. With the mouse the main problems I'm noticing are positioning, occasional undetected clicks, and of course the elevation levels.

Mouse+KB are definitely manageable when I'm on the go and don't have my gamepad on me. At home, when I sit back and relax with the gamepad in my palms, it works better for me

[sirean_syan]

I did try the controller tonight. The issue didn't come up in places where I think I would normally experience them, but I couldn't actually confirm the controller fixed the issue because you can't change control schemes mid-mission apparently. If these issues didn't exist, I think I would prefer the keyboard and mouse actually. I felt like I was much more efficient in places where things work as intended (as they should?) and, more importantly, there is sort of an extra layer of confirmation with a lot of commands. The first is mission launching from the squad outfitting screen. I'm amazed you can just push Y and launch a mission without getting a "are you sure you're set to commit" screen. I know it's not critical, but such a simple button press to throw your troops to the wind is sort of crazy. The other is grenade throwing. With the mouse you select that you want to throw a grenade and then aim it out. With the controller you cycle to the grenade, aim, then push the button. While it sort of sounds like there are more steps with the controller, it doesn't feel that way. Multiple times I threw a grenade or a senor right at my soldier's feet. While I'm sure a large part of it is me just being used to another control scheme, I think there are legitimate issues with the controller.

That said, game is pretty great. I'm more of the oppose from you Que in that I can't get an assault soldier to do much but my heavies and snipers consistently do well. Especially my sniper, god I love that unit. The trick is to get shared vision and just perch them in central location. To put it in perspective, my main sniper has 70ish kills compared to an average of 30 for my other main units currently. The closest behind her is a heavy with 50ish. My heavies usually serve as a mid-ranged gunline which either overwatch or suppress a units so the supports or assault can move around as they need. My squad tends to move slowly with how I play, but rarely does something survive more than a turn or two if I can see them.

[Xessive]

Haha thanks for reminding me, that's a problem I'm having with the mouse control rather than the gamepad! When I'm trying to heal I assume I can click on the medkit then select the adjacent unit I want to heal, but when I click on medkit it instantly heals the nearest adjacent (or the self if there's any missing health). On the gamepad I highlight medkit and it displays crosshairs on the soldier I want to heal, then I just press to heal.

UPDATE:
Btw, I am so attached to my lead squad now. Especially my sniper, Russo, and my CQB-Assault (Shotgun equipped), Leroy. I usually run tactics that involve those two balancing short and long range attacks.

And finally I unlocked the Titan armor, it is pretty sweet!

[scottws]

Yeah, the sniper is lethal with Squad Vision and In The Zone with a plasma sniper rifle.  You can kill half the map in one turn sometimes just with your sniper.

One thing that sucks is my female sniper is the only psi adept.  First of all she's usually not in range to do psionic attacks and secondly why take a 5-damage attack that ends my turn when I can kill the unit and not have it count against one of my actions.

[Xessive]

Yeah, the sniper is lethal with Squad Vision and In The Zone with a plasma sniper rifle.  You can kill half the map in one turn sometimes just with your sniper.

One thing that sucks is my female sniper is the only psi adept.  First of all she's usually not in range to do psionic attacks and secondly why take a 5-damage attack that ends my turn when I can kill the unit and not have it count against one of my actions.

Yeah, and Double Tap doesn't hurt

Yeesh, Psi Ops really ought to be an Assault unit since they have fair mobility.. Although the Sniper does have the best mobility range too.

[Quemaqua]

Clearly you guys are further in than I am. I have school, so I've only had 3 sessions with the game (though two of them were marathons).

I do feel you on that grenade point, Sy. There were a couple times I did accidentally fire a rocket or toss a grenade when I didn't mean to because I forgot it automatically pulled them out. And there's been a couple times I got jump with the controls and accidentally hit X or ^ when I shouldn't have and lost a turn for one of my dudes. Never had an issue with sending guys out too early, though, and I always save before I go into any potential battle anyway.

Things seem to vary by individual more than class, I'm discovering. I haven't really looked into why. Like do some guys have better aim? Because my heavies can't hit the broad side of a space-barn. I'll march them straight up to guys and they'll get like a 78% and then usually whiff completely. I fucking hate them. I'm tempted to get them killed I hate them so much, especially since their dumbfuckery has caused missions to go south at a number of crucial moments. The only thing they're any good for is suppression.

My snipers sucked ass in the beginning, too. Though oddly enough, they seemed to get lucky a lot. Sub-50% hit rates but they'd often roll in the right range and get a hit or kill. But they've really beefed up, and I'm not sure why. I had scopes on two of them all along, and it's only after upgrading to the laser sniper rifle and getting them to major that they seem to now consistently be getting really high hit rates, and they can kick the shit out of key enemies at the beginning of a good turn. But I don't understand what caused the rate to go up. Does aim improve with rank? Because Deacon, one of my supports, is a major and he still can't hit a fucking thing. He's pure medic because he sucks at everything else, and unfortunately he doesn't even move all that far.

Support and assault are my bread and butter. My first colonel was a beefy assault, Angus somebody... got the nickname Duke, so that's all I know him by now. He started kicking ass with a shotgun early on and rapidly rose through the ranks, and he's my go-to guy for basically everything. Laser shotty now, and he's got the thing that gets him free reaction shots for guys entering within 4 tiles and he gets increased critical chances for close enemies, so he's always on the front lines with the best armor soaking up fire and taking on melee. He's killed berserkers basically for free. Like take a shot or overwatch shot, they use their ability to rush him, he takes a free shot, they rush him again, he takes another free shot, and they're dead. I love it. He crits a lot. His second in command who I think just got to colonel herself is Holly Williams, who I love because she got the nickname "Smokes". Holly Smokes, I mean how fucking great is that? She's support, and she's had the highest hit rate of anyone in the organization. She's easily my fastest unit (again, do they have stats for this shit? Why do some people move so much further than others? It doesn't seem to be based on class... I think she took the thing that lets her move 3 tiles more, but it still seems like she outruns people by way more than that), and is super versatile due to her ability to both kill shit quickly (especially right now... she's the only soldier I have that's carrying a plasma rifle) and save all the other poor sods who end up getting themselves shot up or knocked out. The other one who's up there with those two is a female assault, part of a group of 3 high-ranking officers I have from Australia (I also have a two-man Irish team that goes out together a lot, a sniper and an assault), and one American assault and American heavy that are up there.

Haven't gotten any psi stuff yet. Just getting into that now.

[Xessive]

I've noticed something that can be incredibly frustrating; I suspect some shots are scripted to miss regardless of the hit chance percentage. I lined up my sniper on a Muton at 95% and it misses. I though "$&!% What are the odds?!" The Double Tap shot at 95% also missed! I accepted and figured it could be due to the angle and cover, relocated, and once again lined up a clear line of sight, 95% and MISS! WTF!

I saved on my sniper's next turn and ran a sequence of fire, miss, quickload, and try again tests. 12 times in a row at 95% my sniper consistently missed. No explanation.

Meanwhile, my heavy who, just as Que's heavy, can never seem to hit anything (so I usually use him for suppressive fire and rockets) manages to land the killing blow at 58%. Go figure.

It's confusing. I think there's more to firing than just the hit chance % and the line of sight.

[Quemaqua]

I kind of wonder if it's one of those games where hit chance is rolled in advance. I don't know how the math would work, but yeah, once I reloaded a save after someone died or something and noticed I missed a shot I had a decent hit chance on, and I reloaded the save like 5 times and missed every time. I've known games that have done that before, but it's been a long time since I've seen one.

[sirean_syan]

That's the rumor. I've seen it explained that a string of numbers is generated as a mission starts so when a dice roll is called for it'll pull from the next in line. I think if you reloaded, maybe did another thing that calls for a roll then go back to the original attack it might have a chance to hit again.

[Quemaqua]

I always kinda liked that for some reason. I don't know why.

I hate shit to do, but I want to play this so bad right now.

[scottws]

That's the rumor. I've seen it explained that a string of numbers is generated as a mission starts so when a dice roll is called for it'll pull from the next in line. I think if you reloaded, maybe did another thing that calls for a roll then go back to the original attack it might have a chance to hit again.

Yes and no.  It's not exactly that it generates a list of outcomes.

The thing is that a random number generator isn't truly random.  They use seeds that are fed into the RNG algorithm and my understanding it is the seeds that are supposed to give it its randomness.  However, if the seed never changes, then the outcome can be predicted.  What seems to be happening is the RNG isn't being re-seeded each time there is an action that requires output from the RNG, or the seed itself is simply the same each time.

Seeds can be anything, usually.  Examples are hard-coded words or characters in the code, the current system time, several measures of the location of the mouse pointer at different points in time, or a combination of these.

It seems that this game doesn't have a good method of changing up the seed.  Perhaps it generates a seed when you first launch the mission and uses it for the rest of the time in that mission.

Some people seem to be saying this is by design so you can't simply abuse the save system.

[Xessive]

Would asking for an "undo" option be too much? haha

[scottws]

What I tend to do is save at the beginning of missions.  If things go totally south, I reload and just play the mission over again.  I get an advantage because I know where I'll encounter aliens, but I'm not worried about trying to hit (or avoid) a specific shot on a specific turn.  Of course it takes longer.

[Quemaqua]

That's what I do. Next game I'm gonna try Iron Man on normal difficulty.

[scottws]

Well, I just encountered another sucky bug.  I finally shot down the Overseer and was raiding it.  One of my guys mindfrayed and killed a Muton Elite.  After that, it was stuck on his turn, but he had already used his abilities and had no other moves left.  I could click on buttons, but couldn't execute any actions or switch squadmates.  I had to kill the process and reload.

Edit: The bug is reproducible.  I reloaded a save that I made and repeated all the same actions.  The exact same thing happened.

[beo]

just completed it on normal difficulty. trying not to sound like a dick here, but i really didn't find it anything like as hard as everyone made out. lost twelve soldiers overall, one council country and reloaded saves only two or three times. however, i did just try it on classic and got my arse handed to me on the second mission!

absolutely loved it - haven't been as addicted to a game, especially single-player, for a very long time. can't wait for a sequel and/or expansion pack.

[Cools!]

How is the classic mode different?

[scottws]

On most of the missions with the alien ships, I do tend to struggle a little with the Sectopods and Ethereals.  Not so much that I find it extremely difficult, but it can be a pretty serious challenge and I tend to lose a guy every mission or every other mission against either of those enemies.

[beo]

In classic mode the aliens seem more intelligent - they flank more and I'm not sure, but their aim seems better. Also, yeah sectopods are a total bitch.

[MysterD]

Details on upcoming Slingshot Content Pack DLC.

Together with publisher 2K Games, Firaxis today announced the Slingshot Content Pack, a new single-player focused DLC release for XCOM: Enemy Unknown.

The Slingshot Content Pack will provide a new set of linked Council missions where players will “meet an enigmatic Triad operative, divert an alien ship’s course, and do battle with the aliens in the skies over China.” As a part of this pack, you’ll get three new maps, a new playable squad character who has their own unique story and voice, as well as new character customization options.

Date and price for the Slingshot Content Pack will be announced “soon”.

EDIT:
Since Sirean mentioned the Elite Soldier Pack DLC (2 posts down), I'll edit it in...
Details on Elite Soldier Pack that's $5

As well, the Elite Soldier Pack—which was previously free for anybody who pre-ordered XCOM: Enemy Unknown, or who purchased it at launch—is now available for $4.99 on PSN and PC, or 400 MS Points on Xbox Live. The Elite Soldier Pack contains the following content:

Classic X-COM soldier: Players will instantly receive a new recruit in their barracks inspired by the original X-COM: UFO Defense. The iconic soldier with the blonde, flattop hairstyle will return fully modernized.
Soldier Deco packs: Players can customize their soldier with several aesthetic upgrades to armor suits, including the new Hyperion and Reaper soldier armor kits.
Complete color customization: A variety of colors and tints for all armor sets in the game allow players complete control to customize their squad’s look.

[beo]

three missions...? no sale.

[sirean_syan]

Yeah, I think they're screwing up the DLC already. The other part that D doesn't mention is that the pre-order addon which let you customize your soldiers more is also going to be available to everyone for five fucking dollars. That's way too much for something that really should have been in the game for everyone to begin with. I can get behind $1, maybe $2 since this was sort of a preorder bonus, but really.

DLC should be doing things like slipping in new mission types, enemies, events, items, classes, etc. into the game proper. Leaving the main game for side stuff doesn't really seem like it would work so well for the way XCom played out. XCom seems built for multiple playthrough, so make additional playthroughs more interesting with some surprises seamlessly built into the experience.

[MysterD]

Yeah, I think they're screwing up the DLC already. The other part that D doesn't mention is that the pre-order addon which let you customize your soldiers more is also going to be available to everyone for five fucking dollars. That's way too much for something that really should have been in the game for everyone to begin with. I can get behind $1, maybe $2 since this was sort of a preorder bonus, but really.

DLC should be doing things like slipping in new mission types, enemies, events, items, classes, etc. into the game proper. Leaving the main game for side stuff doesn't really seem like it would work so well for the way XCom played out. XCom seems built for multiple playthrough, so make additional playthroughs more interesting with some surprises seamlessly built into the experience.

I edited into my post (some few posts up) that info on what the $5 Elite Soldier Pack contains, for those who missed it.

You're right - $1 to $2 sounds more logical for a pre-order bonus, but probably still too costly.
Though - all the DLC madness is one of many why I just often WAIT for price-cuts on base game, DLC's, ALL DLC packs; and/or just flat-out wait for the final Ultimate Edition (if they put one out).
 

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, that's some shit.

[scottws]

Beat the game.  Eh.

I will say that Firaxis did a pretty good job streamlining the concept and making it require far, far less micromanagement but still retaining much the feeling of the original game.  Credit to them for that.  But the game is very buggy, the campaign is way too abridged, and some of the design decisions were highly questionable.  Why can't I carry the arc thrower instead of a pistol?

I might check out some of the mods that make the game more like the original.  This game is way too short.

[idolminds]

[MysterD]

Beat the game.  Eh.

I will say that Firaxis did a pretty good job streamlining the concept and making it require far, far less micromanagement but still retaining much the feeling of the original game.  Credit to them for that.  But the game is very buggy, the campaign is way too abridged, and some of the design decisions were highly questionable.  Why can't I carry the arc thrower instead of a pistol?

I might check out some of the mods that make the game more like the original.  This game is way too short.

If you don't mind me asking - how "short" was this game for you?