Author Topic: This console generation: A retrospective  (Read 4550 times)

Offline K-man

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This console generation: A retrospective
« on: Monday, May 07, 2012, 07:40:31 AM »
We sort of touched on this yesterday in the IRC chat room, but I believe the topic merits discussion from the board.  Since we are in the twilight of this console generation with new models on the horizon, it's a good time to look back on what companies did right and wrong.  Microsoft and Sony had one major scandal a piece (hardware and compromised personal information, respectively).  It was arguably the most wasteful generation with hundreds of thousands of plastic peripherals inevitably headed for the landfill.  It was the first generation that people heavily invested in digital content, which raises some interesting questions for the future.  Are my purchases tied to the platform?  Or will companies work a way of porting our purchases to newer consoles.  Sony and Microsoft are in a much better position to do this since purchases are tied to a user account.  Nintendo?  Not so much.  Speaking of Nintendo, how many Wii's were sold on the merits of Wii Sports and are now collecting dust because of it?  How does Nintendo's future look?  The handheld scene seems to be hurting due to the emergence of smart phones and tablets.  The handheld and their original IP's have been Nintendo's bread and butter for years, and both seem to be running their course now.

Microsoft really expanded the 360's UI platform from its first iteration.  Whereas the first dashboard version was centered mostly around gaming, the most recent update sees gaming sharing the spotlight with music and movies.  Microsoft is moving toward an all-in-one box, and they certainly have the resources and infrastructure to make that happen big time in the next console.  Sony's UI and features remained relatively unchanged, save for a few additions.  If what I read is correct they sort of bottlenecked themselves by the lack of resources dedicated to the UI in the console so they weren't able to do a ton with it.  Wii's UI remained almost completely unchanged from day one.  Microsoft took XBL and ran with it, providing more than enough extra features to make the cost of admission (roughly 35-40 a year) worth it (I know some of you vehemently disagree with that, but lets have that argument in another thread please).  Comparatively Sony's free service feels much less centralized and more cobbled together.  Of course Sony tried to jump on the subscription train by introducing PSN+, which I can say has been a pretty lackluster experience.  Nintendo's online system is laughable.  Not even deserving of discussion.

The games were great.  We've gotten some great series this generation: Gears, Uncharted, Demon's/Dark souls (if you can count that as a series).  Solid Snake wrapped up his story, which is something I had been heavily invested in for years.   Indie and XBL/PSN titles started to fill the void of genres left behind by the AAA boys.  It's arguably the best (and worst) time to be a gamer.  The best because within reason you can find pretty much anything you want to play.  The worst because the industry is shifting away from some fundamental conventions that until this point weren't ever questioned.  DLC went from being an awesome idea to scourge of humanity. 

Personally I'm still very satisfied with this generation.  Great games are still coming out, and really graphics and sound have gotten to the point to where they're good enough.  There's not really a want for better graphics (at least from me).  And developers have really learned to glean everything possible out of a console.  With every new generation we get a lot of "pretty" games on the front end that don't have a lot of substance, and aside from a few exceptions I believe games sort of take a step back in the transition.

I realize that I'm going a bunch of places with this post, but I just wanted to throw up some talking points.  And I'm sure there are things I missed. 

Offline scottws

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #1 on: Monday, May 07, 2012, 09:00:21 AM »
Good topic!  I'll post my thoughts later when I have some time to organize and type them.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #2 on: Monday, May 07, 2012, 10:23:53 AM »
This is the generation that made me realize two things: I have no interest in gaming the way I used to, and I will always have at least some interest in gaming. It's also made me realize that most of the things I feared over the last 6-7 years have all pretty much come true and been even more unbearable than I thought they'd be, mostly.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with K. There really has been some special stuff out there, and to be honest, I'm sort of glad that I've gotten to the point where I mostly don't care. It means I can spend more time focusing on franchises that are really and truly worth it.

I honestly don't know if I'll buy another console next round. There will certainly be things to tempt me, but I just can't imagine the cost of entry being anything but prohibitive given how much time I can realistically spend gaming these days.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #3 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 06:18:40 AM »
I've been meaning to comment on this.  I started to post before, but realized I needed more time than I had to formulate some thoughts and write them in a way that made sense.

I've gravitated back to a console over the past 6 years or so.  The reason was strictly money at first, but the state of PC gaming crept into the picture slowly as well.  If things were to stay where they are, I would continue on my merry course without looking back.  The Xbox 360, despite the setbacks caused by its shameful hardware issues, has done the job I signed up for very well.  And it has improved significantly with age.  Each iteration of hardware and software has made the experience better.  The current state barely feels like a console.  All games can be (and are, here) fully installed to the hard drive, and run without a spinning optical disc.  The menus resemble the touch/visual interface spreading across the more popular devices, and can work similarly with Kinect (which I don't have).  You can plug in a USB keyboard for all your system-based text functions.  You can use it as an increasingly diverse media box, not that I really care about this.  Most importantly, it permits you to play online or offline, as you see fit, with the exception of the indie games (which I never touch as a result).  You can refuse any updates you don't want, with getting kicked offline as the only consequence.  This last point is crucial to me, and it's my source of greatest concern going forward.

If the rumors of an online requirement on future consoles are true, all bets are off.  I can't even predict what I'll do then, other than not buying into any such platform.  It depends on who does what.  If MS goes the restrictive route and Sony doesn't, I can easily see myself switching back into the PS fold.  If both go this route, PC gaming will look more attractive once again, unless the Ubisoft way becomes the way.

This one issue, more than anything, will determine where I go from here.  Money is of course still a big issue, but not as big as the fundamental freedoms I will never give up without a knock-down, drag-out fight.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #4 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 12:50:04 PM »
We also got to see the rise and, well I will call it, plateau of motion games. Wii proved there was lots of interest in it and banked pretty good from it, Microsoft followed suit with Kinect which reportedly sold well but doesn't have much software backing it, similar to the Wii's problem. It was for a casual gaming audience and core gamers had just a handful of Wii titles that could play to the motion control strengths but that's as far as it went. Then there's the Playstation move which barely make a ripple in that pond at all.

The big mystery is how digital content is going to carry over and I will admit that I am a little concerned. I just think of how backwards compatibility has not been good when transitioning to new consoles. Sony took it out of their console, Nintendo has started producing Wii's that aren't backwards compatible and even their DS handheld revisions no longer support GBA titles. Will this digital content has similar issues? I know it's a bit different since we aren't dealing with physical media but its still old software running on new hardware.

My current place right now is with the PC platform. I know some of you scoff at digital content and more specifically Steam, for me, its something that I have invested a lot into and to be honest, it's platform I have the most confidence in out of all the gaming options I have right now. On top of it being more future proof, it's convenient, well stream lined, and PC ports are becoming more stable and even the most optimal experiences for games being released currently. 

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DLC went from being an awesome idea to scourge of humanity.

I will argue at this point to say that I don't remember hardly anyone thinking DLC was an awesome idea. From it's first iteration (horse armor), DLC still rides along a bumpy road with consumers.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #5 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 01:52:08 PM »
I'd say Pyro's right to some degree. I mean I hate Steam, and I especially hate tying my games to unnecessary restraints and paying money for things without any physical substance, but when you think about it, the more the consoles go that route, the worse it can potentially be. With Steam, you do at least have this sense that it's going to continue to be there rather than just being abandoned, having the servers shut down, becoming something that ceases to exist when the next new iteration of <whatever> comes out.

Of course, I disagree fundamentally with the existence of any of those things, because if you wait long enough, every last one of them will cease to exist, very likely within your lifetime, and all those things you bought will go up in smoke unless you diligently preserve them yourself (because no company is inherently invested in preservation). But if given the choice, I'd probably put more faith in Steam—put more faith in having my PC games around, playable, downloadable for a longer period of time—as opposed to anything that's likely to happen on consoles in the next while. Not because there's any proof that the things we've invested in are going to disappear, but because there <i>is</i> proof that the focus for all these platforms is on making money via what's new, pushing the new products which are at the higher price points, not ensuring that you're able to play the old. While I can't say Steam cares about that either, at least the PC platform itself continues to be a stable thing by virtue of what it is. Archiving games is just part of it because it's open, because it isn't really a product, it's an assemblage of products governed only by whatever software you happen to be using. That leaves people room to do stuff. We have DOSbox and GOG. We have a large number of people who care about keeping those things active and ongoing, accessible. We have people who, with the right tools, can keep games going by putting up their own servers and such.

So despite my misgivings (and believe me, even though I spend a lot of money on iOS games, the cheapness and the throw-away quality of a lot of the games has a lot to do with that, I'm not under any illusions about the reliability of those expenses down the road), PC is clearly where it's at for me too, for a lot of the same reasons Pyro talked about. I'm not nearly as invested as he is, nor do I have the faith that he does in it, but if we're choosing between devils, I think you could do worse.

The tradeoff is that I think Steam is a giant... er, steaming pile of shit, as is iTunes, where I've had pretty good experiences with Sony and Microsoft this generation. Even Nintendo. As convenience goes, I'd say the consoles are a far better bet. But not so much in terms of consideration for the future. Shitty as Steam is, I think the integrity of the library is less of a worry.

EDIT - I think he's right about DLC, too. I don't remember anyone being too excited about it. Most people were either somewhat neutral or were fuming about it. I think most of the people on board with it now are younger kids, people with no money worries, or people who do absolutely nothing with their lives except play games (especially those who heavily invest in individual titles for really long periods of time).

I wonder if DLC lived up to expectations, and whose expectations.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline K-man

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #6 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 02:22:29 PM »
Regarding DLC, I remember people being genuinely excited that developers could add content to games to extend the life of them.  I was one of those people.  A little naive on my part, sure.  But there were plenty of other people who, like me, thought this could be an affordable way to extend the life of our favorite games.  I mean the limited DLC available on the original Xbox was a testament to that.

Then developers basically utilized DLC in the worst possible way to screw consumers and that goodwill went right out the window.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #7 on: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 02:25:45 PM »
I think we're at the point where that's what's always going to happen, though, just as I think we were then, and which I think DLC's subsequent use proves. That is to say where new chances to do something cool are probably going to generally swing away from the consumer in favor of the corporation. Not to say that haven't been and won't continue to be exceptions, but gaming is now so big that those exceptions, usually indie developers and such, aren't the ones churning out the big-name titles. Where big games used to be things I looked forward to, and occasionally still do, now the bigger something is, the less chance I give a shit.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #8 on: Friday, May 11, 2012, 09:20:10 AM »
Some DLC is genuine, and does enhance its parent product.  I can't see Borderlands without Knoxx, Fallout 3 without Broken Steel, or Oblivion without Shivering Isles.  These were meaty projects that were undertaken as a result of the success of the respective vanilla games, and would not have happened otherwise.  "DLC" that's planned ahead of time, and is sometimes even on the fucking disc to begin with, is a whole different animal, one that needs to be hunted to extinction.

We also got to see the rise and, well I will call it, plateau of motion games. Wii proved there was lots of interest in it and banked pretty good from it, Microsoft followed suit with Kinect which reportedly sold well but doesn't have much software backing it, similar to the Wii's problem. It was for a casual gaming audience and core gamers had just a handful of Wii titles that could play to the motion control strengths but that's as far as it went. Then there's the Playstation move which barely make a ripple in that pond at all.

. . .

Kinect is not responsive enough to replace a mouse, keyboard or controller.  The universal complaint is lag.  That makes it fine for casualware, and some creative support uses.  (Skyrim got a 35MB patch that allows you to say "FUS-RO-DAH!" or any of the other dragon shouts and get them to happen in the game.  That's a great idea, for those who don't feel like the biggest dork who ever lived by speaking out loud to their games.  I wish I wasn't one of them.  A lot of menu options can now be spoken as well.)  But hardcore gaming will have to wait for a later, much better implementation.  Besides, if I wanted to jump around, I'd go outside and do some exercise.  Games are meant to be a sedentary activity.

Offline Xessive

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #9 on: Friday, May 11, 2012, 10:28:30 AM »
Remember the days before terms like "DLC?" Y'know, back when they were mission packs and expansions. Good times.

To me, DLC still feels like minor additions, as opposed to more substantial content, for example Brotherhood of Steel or Shivering Isles, I would consider expansions/mission packs because they're not a single piece of content, they're compilations that effectively expand on my experience with a game.

The irony of course is Horse Armour, also by Bethesda, which seemed to give the green light for all other developers to bombard us with insubstantial bits of content for a price, and opened the door for accusations like "they stripped it from the game to charge us for it later!"

I think there needs to be a benchmark for additional content and pricing. If the content is less than $10 in value it should be included with the game at no extra charge, if several bits of content add up to $10 or over then they should bundle them up and sell the pack rather than nickle and dime me for each piece (I don't buy M&M's by the piece).

Offline Pugnate

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #10 on: Friday, May 11, 2012, 01:22:11 PM »
Remember 'Expansion Packs'? :P

Doesn't seem so long ago. :P

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #11 on: Friday, May 11, 2012, 05:30:50 PM »
Basically all the good DLC really was just an assortment of expansion packs. Most of them also had retail releases at expansion-packy prices. Honestly, you could get most of that shit even cheaper for more content than traditional expansions offered, which makes me wonder why this really ends up being a better move for developers. Ultimately it doesn't seem to be great unless you have a super-popular game with a dipshit user base who will pay money for hats.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #12 on: Friday, May 11, 2012, 05:53:08 PM »
Expansion packs required more work from developers and thus were more expensive. This allows nickel and diming. While consumers do get the choice of paying less amount for each piece of DLC, ultimately, in terms of value, they are getting far less than they would from an expansion pack.

People would rather pay $100 in 10 $10 pieces in a few months for a fraction of the content, rather than pay $40 for an expansion in one go.

DLCs are a big win for game developers. They can charge $5-$10 for some ridiculous costumes and for a fraction of the work that would have gone into an expansion... really... a fraction... they make a huge sum of money.

But I can't blame the developers. They release DLCs because they sell. I suppose it is too tempting for buyers to see $5 for some map pack and go for it. Before they know it, they've spent $25 or so in a few months on loads of other stuff. I guess I can blame the developers in the sense that they are taking advantage.

The only way to stop this DLC nonsense is for gamers to enter some sort of an organized movement where they stop buying DLC.

The whole Bioware DLC thing pisses me off to no end. I am bitterly disappointed in what was once my favorite team. EA truly does corrupt. Dragon Age 2 being a rushed piece of crap was terrible enough. But ME2 and ME3's open endings were pure business decisions from EA. Why not leave things open and let EA sell DLC for more half assed mission packs?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: This console generation: A retrospective
« Reply #13 on: Friday, May 11, 2012, 10:34:48 PM »
Regarding the first part of your last comment, Pug, what I was saying above was that the good pieces of DLC are basically expansion packs that end up being sold on the cheap before long. Shivering Isles and all the Borderlands stuff. It seems like going that route actually means more work for less money compared to the expansions of old, especially given how fast stuff gets repackaged and sold at cheaper price points these days.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野