Topic: Resale of software

[idolminds]

How many times have you heard "You aren't buying the software, you're buying a license to use the software! Thats why you can't resell it."

EU court: "Fuck that shit."

Oracle has found itself on the losing side of a judgement by Europe's top court, which ruled on Tuesday that software licences can be sold on a second-hand basis, even when the software in question is downloaded rather than sold on physical media.

The decision of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) applies to the whole of the software industry operating within the EU, not just Oracle and UsedSoft, the German reseller that Oracle sued. It follows an opinion in April by CJEU advocate-general, Yves Bot, who also said that the same resale rights should apply to downloaded software that apply to software sold on CDs or DVDs.

"Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy — tangible or intangible — and at the same time concludes, in return [for] payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy," the CJEU said in a statement (PDF).

"Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

Applies to all software, so I wonder how Steam/Origin/Etc are going to handle this.

[Cobra951]

When my brother worked for Lexis-Nexis, who compile and publish law for the lawyers to study and cite, he told me that Germany was at such odds with American IP laws that it required its companies *not* to follow them.

Fat chance that ruling will spread here.

[idolminds]

So will Steam and stuff stop operating in Europe? Otherwise it seems like they would have to allow for this.

EDIT

Well, guess I figured out a way around it. They dont have to facilitate the sale, so if they don't put in any mechanism to make the transfer possible I guess they are in the clear. You could in theory buy each game on a new Steam account and sell that, but the account is not the game and I bet they can still ban you for that.

[MysterD]

CVG -> GreenManGaming (UK PC game download service that already allows resale on certain used PC downloaded games) responds to the European court's ruling.

That's according to Paul Sulyok, boss of London-based digital PC games retailer Green Man Gaming, who told Eurogamer that the ECJ ruling suggesting consumers have the right to resell downloadable games they've purchased will have significant implications for platform holders.

"I think some first acquirer somewhere is going to push this through, because it's the kind of thing the community does, and it's their right to," he said.

"There will be a first case against one of the platform holders. The result of that is a foregone conclusion. So they will have to facilitate that. This will shake up the digital distribution market. Long-term there are some important implications and this is very disruptive.

"Both Origin and Steam would have to facilitate some kind of method whereby a consumer could revoke the activation of that key and then pass a brand new key onto a third party."

Sulyok also said the ruling could deter digital retailers from offering sales promotions.

"The classic technique of deep discount, short time limited discounts, all of that will be slightly skewed now, because you don't want to have a deep discounted game that can then be sold on elsewhere.

"The secondary market then cuts in and then what will happen is the same sort of thing as you've seen in the high street whereby a supermarket chain puts a fantastic discount on a product for consumers and all the other high street retailers trot down to the supermarket to buy them to stop them."

[Xessive]

I don't think it would majorly affect seasonal discount sales but I can see Valve reducing the discount percentages on Midweek Madness and Weekend deals. To counter-balance, I suspect they would end up encouraging alternate sales like pre-orders by offering greater discounts on them. This is pretty much what Green Man Gaming does.

Thanks to GMG I kinda went on a pre-order craze! I don't normally pre-order stuff way in advance but Hitman: Asbolution Professional Edition ($60) + Sniper Challenge ($20) for $35? Hell yeah, I'll pre-order!

[MysterD]

I'm curious once Origin and Steam basically have to implement some kind of mechanism to allow for game-trading and/or game-reselling in Europe, do you think they'll just also allow for USA to be able to do this, too?
It's not like the USA Courts have ruled on this matter....yet. It could be inevitable, given Europe's made their decision.

[idolminds]

The thing is I don't believe the ruling means they have to implement that mechanism. Basically if its possible to sell/transfer a software license then the developer/publisher can't stop you from doing so. But Steam and such don't have to make it easy or possible.

[Xessive]

Well, Valve have pretty much proven that they can do it with Steam's current trade/gift system. When you purchase a gift you can choose to send it directly or store it in your inventory to send later or redeem it for yourself. When you own an item, transferring it removes it from your inventory; I would imagine that's how it could work if you could transfer a game, it would just remove it from your library and you would no longer be able access it.

[idolminds]

Yeah there's no technical reason Steam couldn't offer this ability. I just doubt they will and I'm sure they will have a lot of pressure from all the other publishers to not do it.

[MysterD]

So, how would GOG implement such a system?
All their games are DRM-FREE.

I'm guessing this re-sale of software wouldn't apply to DRM-FREE games that are downloaded.

There's No DRM; No Physical Media; or anything or that sort here that stops the original owner from LOSING their license and LOSING their ability to play the game they got rid of.
If someone bought a game DRM-FREE for download - he could literally keep the installers; make a copy of the installers on disc(s) for someone else; sell the game; and still be able to play the game.

EDIT:
I'm guessing also b/c GOG does DRM-FREE, your games cannot be sold back to them, either.

[idolminds]

The whole point is that GoG doesn't have to set up a system. I bought a game from GoG, and I can now sell it or give it away or otherwise transfer ownership of it to someone else. GoG can't stop be from doing so. (well assuming I move to Europe, since none of this applies to the US yet).

There's No DRM; No Physical Media; or anything or that sort here that stops the original owner from LOSING their license and LOSING their ability to play the game they got rid of.
If someone bought a game DRM-FREE for download - he could literally keep the installers; make a copy of the installers on disc(s) for someone else; sell the game; and still be able to play the game.

Yeah but in the case of GoG that was always the risk. This law changes nothing about that.