Topic: X-Box 720 -> Rumor: Always online, BR-supported, no used-games allowed

[MysterD]

Anyone want to buy an always online required, BR supported, no used-games allowed console called the X-Box 720?

That's the latest rumor:
http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/rumor-next-xbox-to-be-always-online-no-secondhand-games-blu-ray-discs-and-a-new-kinect/

[K-man]

the online-only/no used games thing would severely impede my desire for one.

[W7RE]

I have trouble believing the always online thing. The rest seems plausible though.

[Quemaqua]

No future consoles for me, especially given those sorts of trends. Maybe PS4 someday since I don't have a dedicated movie player and use my PS3 for everything, but never another Microsoft piece of shit unless I get way less busy and a whole lot richer.

[MysterD]

"Always online" thing sounds CRAZY to me. If Microsoft is headed that route - they're insane.
I could be wrong here - but I don't think most of the rest of the world has caught up connection-wise to what the USA is doing here.

"No used games" sounds more logical to me - but, I'm sure consumers will have a major outcry just over this alone!

[Cobra951]

What I read today mentioned a one-time online activation through a code included with the game.  It still sucks, but not terminally so (like a forced constant connection does).  It's all speculation at this point, and Microsoft is not the only purveyor of consoles in the world either.  If they want to shoot themselves in the head, hopefully the other players won't follow suit.

[idolminds]

I would be completely disinterested in that console.

[Pugnate]

I just don't believe these rumors about always online and second hand games. It would be a death sentence.

[Xessive]

That would certainly kill consoles for me.

It seems the only demographic a device like this would appeal to are the hordes of Call of Duty Multiplayer console addicts: they have to be online anyway and they buy the game on day 1 (if they haven't already pre-ordered it).

We'll have to see what Sony announces with the PS4 but either way it will be a long time before I move on to a new console. I'm happy with my PS3 as it is and my PC is my primary gaming device anyway.

[gpw11]

I don't think it would scare me away from consoles (note that I've really only played a handful of games on my PS3 and only really use it as a media server and thats why I probably wouldn't be too upset),  but it'd be hillarious to see the back room proceedings and Prisoner's Dilemma arguments going on while they talked about this (and they would have to talk about this).

[Xessive]

GameStop warns Microsoft on rumored used game-blocking console

GameStop is taking to the press to try to highlight just how damaging a used-game-free system would be to a hardware maker's brand. Speaking to Bloomberg, GameStop spokesman Matt Hodges said the company's surveys of customers show that they would be much less likely to purchase a console that didn't let them buy or sell their used games.

“We know the desire to purchase a next-generation console would be significantly diminished if new consoles were to prohibit playing pre-owned games, limit portability, or not play new physical games,” Hodges said.

Never thought I'd stand in agreement with GameStop but it's pretty obvious what their motivation is as major second-hand retailer.

[Cobra951]

The issue needs exposure, and Gamestop is an ideal force to make that happen.  They have the money, the presence and the strong motivation.  They can take to the press to discourage one console and promote another, for example.  Yes, this is good news.

[scottws]

It's hard to cheer for Gamestop given the way they gouge people, but sometimes you have to pick your battles.

[nickclone]

Lets not forget about letting your friends borrow your games or trading with them. If Sony doesn't follow suit, I could see them cleaning up.

[idolminds]

So internet drama again! First Kotaku had a story up that said sources were claiming that always online requirement is still a thing for MS's next system. If there is no connection it will refuse to launch any game or app, and there is a 3 minute window if you lose connection while playing before it'll error out. But thats Kotaku and still technically rumor.

Buuuuut, now we have Microsoft Studios' creative director saying some really stupid shit on Twitter.






I'm sure PR is super pissed with him right now. Dude he was arguing with is a designer at Bioware. Does this lend any weight to the always online rumors? I dunno...

[Cobra951]

Yeah, it kinda does, doesn't it?  What a dick.

I almost hope the rumors are true.  It would make a decision on the next gen so much easier.

[Xessive]

What a dick, indeed. He doesn't seem to understand that not all people have the luxury of seamless internet. Talk about a first-world whiner.

He keeps comparing internet access to electricity, which is much more widespread worldwide and can be generated independently when necessary if you have a generator (third-world living).

[W7RE]

My internet has been up and down constantly for the past week and a half. It's ok in the afternoons, but at night and in the mornings it's either unresponsive or out completely. I'm near a decent sized city and on a major cable provider. (charter)

The devices we have now that are "always connected" are devices that are, by design, "burst use". By this I mean, you keep your phone on and get emails/texts/etc when it updates. If there's a 2 minute outage you may not even notice unless you're in the middle of a call. Home devices that are always connected are really more like, "connected when they can be" and don't 100% require a connection.

I still would be really surprised if the new Xbox 100% requires a connection. It's one of the worst things they could do to themselves, considering their direct competitor won't be doing it. It would be worse than blocking used games.

[Cobra951]

At this point, I have to think that MS is just allowing all the free publicity do its thing, even if a lot of it is negative.  Then they'll come in with some announcement (in May, I assume) that gets everyone's attention, and which won't be quite as bad as everyone fears.  It won't make any difference to me.  My mind is completely made up on the subject.  Any form of online tethering makes me go elsewhere for gaming.  But enough people will still flock to them to let them get away with more than they should.

Edit:

Bahahaha!  I'm still laughing my ass off.

[Quemaqua]

Everybody already did on the last one. MS released a completely broken fucking product to the point where I know two people who went through more than 5 of the fucking things, and still everyone just omgzorz loves 360. People are stupid enough today that you can pretty much get away with absolutely anything as long as enough of your market is blinded by brand loyalty.

[K-man]

People didn't repurchase 360s because they are sheep, it's because they found enough value in the product to put up with the hardware issues.

I've only *bought* 2.  I was on my third fat console (2 warranty exchanges) before I sold it and upgraded to the slim.  So far I have had zero issues with the slim, nor do I expect to have any.

That being said, the always-online thing sucks.  But it's inevitable.  Sooner or later you won't be able to game on a console that isn't always-on.  There's too much of an advantage to game publishers and hardware manufacturers.

Bottom line is that eventually we'll have to make a choice:  Suck it up or stop gaming.  I'm not quite sure where I stand.

[W7RE]

As far as finding value in the Xbox 360, I only bought one console, and it's still working. Also, Xbox Live can be pretty cheap if you pay attention. I've been paying $1 a month for over a year.

I just checked my transaction history and in Feb 2011 I got 12 months with 2 free games for $35. From Feb 2012 forward I've been getting "$1 for 1 month" and "$2 for 2 months" dashboard deals. I just let it run out and revert to Silver, then dashboard deal shows up. I haven't spread the word on this too much because if too many people start doing it, MS will stop those deals.

[Cobra951]

@K-man: 

Suck it up, stop gaming, or give up consoles entirely and switch back to PC, where control is always yours (legal or not).  There's always my very hefty backlog of games I've passed on so far, which given my age, would probably serve me for the rest of my life if things got that bad for the future consumer.

I'm on my 3rd Xbox, my 2nd purchased.  The one in between was a warranty replacement for my original, defectively designed Xenon system.  It too was defectively designed; it too fried itself.  At that point, my thoughts went along the same lines as yours.  I had too much invested in the platform to walk away, but I wasn't about to put up with yet another crap warranty replacement with the same defective mainboard.  So I bought a Jasper-chipset arcade unit for $200, and moved my HDD over to it.  It's still going strong, outlasting both of my previous units combined.

[idolminds]

Bottom line is that eventually we'll have to make a choice:  Suck it up or stop gaming.  I'm not quite sure where I stand.

Calling it a "choice" is being generous, depending on who you're talking about.

[K-man]

Calling it a "choice" is being generous, depending on who you're talking about.

You never know, this design decision we're complaining about may foster demand and subsequently some broadband penetration.  It's actually not a stretch to think that design decisions like these could end up helping your cause in the long run.

[Cobra951]

I don't understand a bit of that.  How is usurping the consumer's power in any way drive demand from the same consumer?

[K-man]

Idol is referencing not having a high-speed internet connection.  The proliferation of devices that require an "always on" Internet connection could serve to drive up demand for broadband, thus increasing the chances of it finally making it to his area.

[idolminds]

Pandora, Netflix, Youtube, all the new game streaming, online gaming is over a decade old, etc. Its not a demand problem, unfortunately.

[K-man]

Those are a tad different from what essentially will amount to a set-top box that Microsoft wants in every living room.

[idolminds]

True but I don't think that will accelerate broadband penetration. There are a few of those streaming boxes on the market and even a lot of TVs have apps and Facebook and stuff built in.

I would love for it to help, but I don't think it will. Whats going to happen is people that *can't* use an always online device won't buy it, which is the opposite of demand. Plus I mean, Microsoft doesn't operate in a vacuum. Those people will buy a PS4 of WiiU instead. If anything, the PS4 would push up demand because rural people will buy it and want to use the share features.

[K-man]

What we need is for Heart of the Swarm to get REAL popular in the states.

[Cobra951]

Destructoid sums up the shitstorm.

[idolminds]

MS trying to play it cool.

"We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers.  We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter."

"Sorry you got offended, but we won't comment either way on the actual subject that has people riled up."

I wonder how much longer MS can hold out without announcing the new system. All these rumors and the always online thing has been a persistent one. Even if it turns out to not be true I can guarantee they are going to focus a lot on online functions just like Sony did, but they will have to spend a bunch on making sure people know those long standing rumors were false. As it is I guarantee every article and Q&A about the unveiling will have a question pertaining to always online.

[K-man]

I'd think that if the "online-only" rumor were false, Microsoft would have flat-out denied it by now.

[MysterD]

I'd think that if the "online-only" rumor were false, Microsoft would have flat-out denied it by now.

Or maybe Microsoft is thinking of back-tracking and maybe removing it now...?
{thinks twice}
{laughs evilly}
Yeah, right! {Sarcasm laced in this line}

[idolminds]

It's probably way too late for them to backtrack. They need whatever new services they are cooking up to be in a nearly done state to show soon, and there will be ones that make use of the always on connection if it was mandated.

[Xessive]

Haha Francis IS MAD! haha

As far as I'm concerned they're just making our choice for the next-gen consoles easier: not Xbox 720 (or whatever it's gonna be called). Of course Microsoft's cutthroat maneuvre will inevitably be with exclusives. They are good at getting those damn exclusives.

Even if the world completely shifts to a standard I'm not comfortable with I won't quit gaming; I'll just go back and play the massive backlog of awesome games I have yet to delve deeper into! Also, I will not yield on my regional restrictions campaign.

[idolminds]

We'll see how well they can gather big exclusives if they have always online. Game development is expensive as hell so practically everything is cross platform now. To be exclusive to an always online Xbox would first cut you off from sales on all other platforms, plus you'd be dealing with the shortcoming of people with "lesser" internet connections not buying the system. I think the stat being thrown around is 15% of 360s sold have never once logged in to Live. That doesn't include the systems that have logged in at least once, like people that log in just to grab patches and system updates but otherwise might have issues with an always-on state. MS is looking at at least a 15% drop in userbase right out of the gate and chances are those numbers will slide on over to PS4. So...what kind of money would they need to offer to get an exclusive with that situation? What if your game design has no use for the connection in the first place?

Not saying they won't have exclusives but they will practically all have to come from MSs own studios.

[K-man]

Francis is a character, by the way.  I'm not sure if you guys realize that.  I found out the hard way back when he posted a video about D3.

[W7RE]

Francis is a character, by the way.  I'm not sure if you guys realize that.  I found out the hard way back when he posted a video about D3.

I was crushed when I found out that FPS Russia isn't Russian. I've heard people talk about how bad his fake Russian accent is, but I never picked up on it. (guess I just haven't heard enough real Russians speak)