Topic: Dark Souls: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Death

[W7RE]

I recall hearing from people that this game is always fair, and you always know what you did wrong when you die. I disagree. Ok that's mostly true, but I've had a few deaths that I would definitely blame on wonky controls or the game just not giving you a chance to see what's coming.

-The ball coming down the stairs in the Asylum. There's almost no way to see this coming. You just take some damage though, so it's not a big deal.

-The burning barrel coming down the stairs in Undead Burgh. The only way to see this one coming it if you just happen to aim your camera up the stairs before it happens. This one is less excusable IMO because it knocked me off the cliff in a manner that fucking defied physics. I'm on the stairs, the barrel is coming down, and it hits me. Knocks me down the stairs, right? Nope. It knocks me 90 degrees to the left, directly off the cliff.

-I died like 5 times at the base of the steps to Undead Burg, right near the first bonfire after the Asylum. I was trying to jump across to the right, under the bridge where there's a body you can loot. Every one of these deaths felt like they were a direct result of the run/jump mechanics. (in every case, I cleared all the enemies first)


Despite all this, I'm having fun. I stayed up way later than I intended just playing and replaying Undead Burgh, wanting to get up to that bridge with the dragon (I've been that far before, but it's been a while so I restarted my character).

[Cobra951]

I recall hearing from people that this game is always fair, and you always know what you did wrong when you die. I disagree. Ok that's mostly true, but I've had a few deaths that I would definitely blame on wonky controls or the game just not giving you a chance to see what's coming.

-The ball coming down the stairs in the Asylum. There's almost no way to see this coming. You just take some damage though, so it's not a big deal.

. . . [snip, for no spoilers for me!]

Yeah, I disagree also.  I got bowled over by that ball, then I had to look around to see what happened.  A bit later, I crossed the white light upstairs, and found myself looking down at that big demon.  Before I could do anything, he jumped and broke the ledge.  I fell, and he pounded on me.  Some health left!  Oh, I'm not moving.  Move, damn you!  Oh, now I'm moving!  Too late; he whacked me again.  I'm dead.

I know what I did wrong!  I crossed the white light!  Uh . . . yeah, that's it.

Edit:  Oh, ha!  It took me a while to realize I could damage this huge thing.  Attack while falling knocked off half its health, and I was able to beat it, just barely.  So I got carried off by a bird, and I'm now out in the open.  Getting used to the weird button mapping seems to be most of the early battle.  I so want to fight with the face buttons.

[W7RE]

Getting used to the weird button mapping seems to be most of the early battle.  I so want to fight with the face buttons.

Yea, this is has been my biggest hurdle in getting used to the game. I really want to just press A to jump, but it's B, and you have to be running for it to work. One time I fell down a little step and was on the edge of a cliff. I died because my character was physically unable to step up a half a foot. I was stuck and the only way to go was off the ledge.

[Quemaqua]

The game is a little wonky, but you get used to the limitations pretty quick. I'd say the game is generally fair, aside from a couple of surprise moments like those you mentioned. And any time you come up against a new mechanic you run that risk. I didn't know how curse status acted when it first happened to me, and I found out real fast, the hard way. But the game is generally not cheap. The vast majority of your deaths will be caused from just fucking up or getting in over your head, or running out of supplies, or taking risks to progress or to gain some big reward, not because you just didn't see something coming until it was too late.

Still, the game is a little wonky. You just have to accept that going in. But it's less wonky than Demons Souls by a small margin, and eventually you figure out all the little nuances.

EDIT - And yeah, that big demon dude tends to get people the first time. I remember when I was playing it at the meet and everybody was watching, we got a good laugh out of that when I was just standing there looking at him and then he clobbered me to death. If you don't put it together from the tutorial messages that you're supposed to stab his head as you fall ... good luck. haha

[W7RE]

Couple random questions:

I started as a thief, thus have high dex. Is there a way to tell which weapons scale with dex? Will the dex bonus be displayed on items while I'm viewing them at a shop, or do I have ot buy them to see the listed damage number go up?

I read that there's a dragon that shoots fire at you on a bridge, and if you sneak under him through another path, you can shoot his tail with a bow to get a sword off him. Is that before or after the Taurus Demon? Not sure if I'm going the right way or not.

Also, there's a tall knight with a sword and shield in Undead Burgh I can't seem to kill. If you roll off the walkway where the guys are throwing firebombs at you, you land behind him (which doesn't help much). Do I just need to level up/equip up before I can take him? He seems to take so little damage.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, it'll take you a while to work up to him, no worries.

It's been forever since I've played, so I honestly forget about how weapon stats are displayed and such. I'm sure somebody with more recent experience can answer you.

As for the dragon ... my best advice to you is seriously, don't read ahead about shit. Don't use guides, don't play it like an MMO. Save that for a second playthrough or whatever. The game is a far better experience when you have absolutely no idea what horrible shit is waiting for you in the next area, or when you actually have to risk unknown factors to potentially reach rewards (like: do I try to make this jump, or wait and see if there's another way around? do I try to kill this horrible-looking thing or just leave the treasure chest and move on?). I would highly recommend this as a game to play through entirely blind on your first run. That's more or less what I did, though I think toward the middle of the game I started looking over other people's character builds just to get a better idea of how things worked. And I mean that's cool, because in this game you can potentially gimp yourself a bit if you don't understand the mechanics. And there were I think two occasions where I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong in my approaches to something, and resorted to checking online to see what I was missing. But still ... I think it's just so much more fun when you have to flail around and pray your way around every corner.

[idolminds]

There should be a button to press when in the shop to view an items stats. At the bottom you should see rating like A, B, C that tells you how well something scales with a certain stat. Just like school, A is better than C.

After Taurus.

Leveling up and such helps but black knights are just bastards in general. That one is tricky because of the confined space he is in, making it harder for you to dodge. You can make it a bit easier by clearing out the area before you get to him and kite him back to the courtyard where you have some room.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I've never played a DEX heavy build before but there are some great weapons to get that overshadow the Drake Sword you are talking about getting such as some of the scythes, katanas, and curved swords that appear in the game and many of them have A or B level scaling to DEX.  There are people who say not to get the Drake Sword early on and others who do. I got it both times I have played through it and abandoned it shortly after getting it for a weapon that scaled to my main stat of STR better.  There are plenty of weapons at different points in the game that scale to DEX and can take you through the rest of the game but early on that Drake Sword helps out while you are still low on souls and weapons since not all of the better DEX weapons are immediately accessible.

You just have to find which weapon you are most comfortable with and get used to the animation of the weapon since two very similar weapons that both scale to the same stat can have wildly different animations. 

You probably wouldn't want to take on the black knight until you are more comfortable with trying to get backstabs or parrying on a consistent basis if you aren't doing the damage needed, but this is also coming from someone who plays big tank characters with greatshields and greatswords.  I do remember killing the black knight with the Drake Sword early on but it wasn't easier until I had the endurance to take his hits with my shield.

[W7RE]

I got the Drake Sword, and managed to kill that black knight with it. He dropped a Black Knight Sword, which is even better than the Drake Sword, but I don't have the STR to equip it yet. I've tried my bandit's knife, a scimitar, a spear... I think I like the Bandit Knife the best, but it's damage pales in comparison to anything else. I guess it's a bit faster, but still. I want a more powerful dagger I think.

I just had my first invasion. I was wandering around the underside of the bridge where the big red drake is, and saw a sign or two saying I needed life, or maybe it actually said humanity. So I reversed my hollowing and went back, and got the message I had been invaded. The guy came down the stairs and I prepared to have my shit pushed in, but I wasn't going down without a fight. The guy waved and me and then dropped a shitload of items for me, then tried to lead me past the drake, and opened some gate for me (to the bonfire? not sure). He gave me:

Elite Knight Helm +6
Elite Knight Armor +6
Elite Knight Gauntlets +6
Elite Knight Leggings +6
Longsword +7
Reinforced Club +7
Dragon Crest Shield +4
Cloranthy ring
Havel's Ring
Ring of Steel Protection
Old Witch's Ring
Ring of Favor and Protection
a bunch of Titanite shards, chunks, slabs, and some dragon scales
some Sunlight Medals
some Blooming Purpe Moss
some Divine Blessings
some Souls of Sif
some Souls of Manus
some Souls of Gwyn
some Humanity
some Rubbish
a Darksign (did I have that already?)

I... think that's all of it?



This shit will break the game for me (make it super easy), won't it?


EDIT: Yup, this stuff is too much. I let a skeleton beat on me to see how much damage he would do. Did it again with the new set of armor. ~6 hits would kill me in my old armor, but it would take 20+ with the new stuff. Also this sword is doing the same dmg with a weak attack that my dagger does with a counter-attack or backstab. Also my roll is slow as fuck with all that heavy armor. I hope leather armor stays viable so I can keep using it.

Is your movement speed/roll speed affected by how much stuff you're carrying, or just what you have equipped? I bought a Bottomless Box, so I guess I could store a bunch of stuff in there? I'm guessing that works like a bank or stash, right?

EDIT: Found out what I needed about the movement speed. I guess it gets slower as you hit 25%, 50%, and 75% of your maximum equip weight.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, it's all about equip weight. There are ways to manage it. My build was focused on having some heavier gear and a bigass sword, but still being able to cartwheel around everywhere because of other items that helped me out in the weight department.

[Cobra951]

. . .

I just had my first invasion. I was wandering around the underside of the bridge where the big red drake is, and saw a sign or two saying I needed life, or maybe it actually said humanity. So I reversed my hollowing and went back, and got the message I had been invaded. The guy came down the stairs and I prepared to have my shit pushed in, but I wasn't going down without a fight. The guy waved and me and then dropped a shitload of items for me, then tried to lead me past the drake, and opened some gate for me (to the bonfire? not sure). He gave me:

Elite Knight Helm +6
Elite Knight Armor +6
Elite Knight Gauntlets +6
Elite Knight Leggings +6
Longsword +7
Reinforced Club +7
Dragon Crest Shield +4
Cloranthy ring
Havel's Ring
Ring of Steel Protection
Old Witch's Ring
Ring of Favor and Protection
a bunch of Titanite shards, chunks, slabs, and some dragon scales
some Sunlight Medals
some Blooming Purpe Moss
some Divine Blessings
some Souls of Sif
some Souls of Manus
some Souls of Gwyn
some Humanity
some Rubbish
a Darksign (did I have that already?)

I... think that's all of it?



This shit will break the game for me (make it super easy), won't it?


EDIT: Yup, this stuff is too much.

. . .

I jumped into this game without realizing I was online the whole time.  I kept seeing ghostly shades, and an occasional human figure at a bonfire.  Bloodstains, signs, etc.  Then I started wondering and looked it up.  What bugged me, like a ton, is that the game didn't tell me this, and that there is no in-game way of choosing to play offline.  Because of my own idiosyncrasies, I seldom like to play videogames in the presence (physical or virtual) of anyone else.  And besides, this absolutely has to be optional.  How could they not even give you a menu option, or tell you outright what's happening?  Getting randomly invaded by some douche who is way more powerful, and then being at his whim, good or evil?  Screw that.  I know the game is supposed to be better this way, but it just takes me way out of my comfort zone.  Will check it out later, but for now, no thanks.

So anyway, for the Xbox, press the big silver button, and start a Party.  Don't invite anyone.  That's it.  This will force Dark Souls into offline mode.  Don't do it while playing, because it will tell you it can't continue and kick you to the main menu.  You can do it at the main menu, or outside the game entirely.  Much easier than yanking the ethernet cable, or restarting the game on an offline profile.

[W7RE]

Also players can only enter your game if you are human, and I keep reading people say to just not become human because it's useless, and you lose it if you die anyway. So why do I keep seeing notes that say "need humanity"? Is it invasion bait, or is it a roundabout way to suggest summoning help?

Also seeing signs all over that just say "praise the sun" doesn't seem like much help. I get it if you're putting it right after a tough area as a way to cheer or whatever. But when I'm facing down a tough section and not sure what to do, I go to a sign to get a tip, and it say "praise the sun!".

[Quemaqua]

You can only get invaded in human form, and I spent the vast majority of my time in the game out of it. You don't have to play offline to avoid that stuff. You're losing a good portion of the fun if you play offline, not just from battling other players (which I did probably only 5 or so times the entire time I was playing the game), but from the bloodstains, messages, etc. You also lose out on coop, although there are a few NPC characters who will simulate on some level the invasion/coop aspects of the game. I never did win a fight with other players, though I got close on several occasions, and honestly, as much of a "goddammit" moment as it can be, it's a total rush. I don't think I ever cooped with another player to beat a boss, though I've heard that can make some of the harder bosses a cinch.

EDIT - Oops, W7RE posted first.

I forget what the advantage of being human is, but humanity is a thing you can use in the game, both to spend to become human (which can affect things in some instances), or to spend as currency even in certain places or to do certain things. There's a lot under the surface of this game which isn't explained. It takes an emergent gameplay sort of stance on things and builds a lot that you have to poke around to figure out, which to me was a lot of the fun (as I said above). The game doesn't outright say in a tutorial message, "Here's how it all works!" but it's not like you aren't going to figure it out when the giant message flashes on the screen and you're fighting a crazy specter that's freaking you out. And like I said, there are portions of the game that sort of simulate that with NPC characters along the way.

Messages and such may be helpful or may not. Unfortunately you guys are playing way, way after release, so the quality might have gone down a bit. It's as likely that somebody spammed useless shit as put down something useful, but there are definitely times when the messages are hilarious or helpful. Or that's how it was when I played, at least.

[W7RE]

Most of the messages are helpful. It's just a few spots where I see like 2-3 "praise the sun" messages in a spot that doesn't make sense, and right next to each other.

Question: I've got some items that say they upgrade weapons, some of which I think I actually got legitimately. When I try to use them, the "use" command on the item menu is marked out. How do I use them? Also, would it be a waste to use one on my Bandit's Knife? I really like the speed and small arc of that weapons, keeps me from bouncing it off walls in tight areas. The damage seems like it's inferior even to the plain scimitar I've been using.

[idolminds]

You can either buy a special box at a vendor that will allow you to do basic weapon and armor upgrades (I think it costs 2000 souls?), or you can find one of several blacksmiths who will upgrade the items for you.

[Cobra951]

There should be a button to press when in the shop to view an items stats. At the bottom you should see rating like A, B, C that tells you how well something scales with a certain stat. Just like school, A is better than C.

After Taurus.

Leveling up and such helps but black knights are just bastards in general. That one is tricky because of the confined space he is in, making it harder for you to dodge. You can make it a bit easier by clearing out the area before you get to him and kite him back to the courtyard where you have some room.

After Taurus . . . how?  This guy ended my session.  I can't get more than a few licks in before he has me for lunch.  Is there something I'm missing, other than basic ability?

[TheOtherBelmont]

The bandit's knife is not a bad weapon to upgrade since it scales to Dex so well and actually has the highest crit bonus in the game besides one of the daggers you get from the DLC content which you won't be doing until much later.  The titanite shards you use to upgrade it with a weapon upgrade box or at a blacksmith are actually sold by the blacksmith and are dropped pretty frequently so it may not be a bad idea to upgrade it and see how it plays out.  You probably won't be able to upgrade it past +5 right now anyways since the blacksmith needs a large ember to go past +5 and I doubt you have that yet.

Cobra, with the Taurus Demon there are two really easy ways to beat him.  One involves using a certain item in your inventory that does a decent amount of damage on him and another involves the plunging attack.

[W7RE]

I used the plunging attack to kill him. There's a ladder leading up to the top of the tower you come out of. I killed the 2 archers up there first, then ran up there when Taurus came out, and jumped down on him. Then I ran away a bit, then ran past him and went back up there. It probably helps that I'm wearing fairly light armor and have decent speed.

Is there a blacksmith anywhere near where I'm at? I don't necessarily need instructions to get to him, just want to know if I'm close. I'm wandering around the Undead Parish now mostly, still going back to Undead Burgh a bit to buy stuff and make attempts at that guy with the giant club down below the Taurus Demon.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I used the plunging attack to kill him. There's a ladder leading up to the top of the tower you come out of. I killed the 2 archers up there first, then ran up there when Taurus came out, and jumped down on him. Then I ran away a bit, then ran past him and went back up there. It probably helps that I'm wearing fairly light armor and have decent speed.

Is there a blacksmith anywhere near where I'm at? I don't necessarily need instructions to get to him, just want to know if I'm close. I'm wandering around the Undead Parish now mostly, still going back to Undead Burgh a bit to buy stuff and make attempts at that guy with the giant club down below the Taurus Demon.

There's a blacksmith at Undead Parish, you will hear him hammering if you are getting close.  The guy with the big club you mentioned is Havel and he will fuck you up if you aren't comfortable with dodging and watching your stamina.  I beat him with a lot of parrying and backstabs but I was also probably doing a lot more damage than you are at the point you are at since I was going with a heavy STR and END build.  The stamina to roll out of the way if he gets an attack in near you is going to be the most important thing because I'm going to take a guess and say that he one hit kills you.

[W7RE]

Yea, he one shots me if I'm not blocking. I've had a few lengthy fights with him, but it's a long process. One screw up and it's over. I tried firebombs but that doesn't help much. I even tried the drake sword, but that doesn't help that much either.

[Cobra951]

I've been wondering, and reading this page only reinforced it:  Should I be grinding near my current boosted bonfire for more levels?  Every time I rest, the enemies that respawn get slightly tougher.  I'm now having to deal with more firebomb-chucking guys on the roof, and quicker melee assaults.  And every time I go through the cycle, my gear loses some durability.  I'm mixing it up, trying to use the crappier stuff they drop, and saving my better (though not by much) gear for the bigger fights.  But I'm wondering if the bosses will be leveling up too, making grinding in fact pointless.

[Quemaqua]

As far as I'm aware, nothing in the game scales to your level. Some situations may change (like I think those firebomb dudes just show up after you've been through the area? I forget), but as far as I'm aware, nothing changes based on your level. You can certainly do some grinding/hunting runs for souls or gear/items/whatever.

And of course every New Game + you go through increases the toughness of all the enemies by a large amount.

[Cobra951]

OK, thanks for the quick reply.  I'll try grinding a bit with the hollow-man gear, and see if Taurus becomes more tractable.

[idolminds]

Using weaker gear only makes you weaker. Durability goes down pretty slowly in this game and I've only ever had one item break on me, and that was because a specific boss had an attack that deals durability damage that I got hit by several times over multiple fights.

You should be able to find a merchant in Undead Burg that will sell you a repair box for a couple thousand souls. With it you can spend souls at any bonfire to repair your equipment. Even if an item "breaks" you can still repair it. You never actually lose the item just your ability to use it until its fixed.

[Cobra951]

Yep, found him, and not because I read it here.  I broke some boxes, and oooh! a staircase.  Bought some repair powder, a bottomless box and a residence key, as well as some throwing knives and some bolts for a crossbow that some nice undead fellow dropped for me after I killed him.

I've had 2 more battle axes drop, as well as a spear, so I'm a lot less concerned about durability.  I'm slowly getting better at the moves and controls.  I allowed the game to go online today, and although I haven't seen any messages telling me something I didn't already know, I do see some spectral characters somehow jumping up to this ladder up on the wall in the room with the bonfire.  My jumps don't even go halfway high enough for that.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I do see some spectral characters somehow jumping up to this ladder up on the wall in the room with the bonfire.  My jumps don't even go halfway high enough for that.

That's actually a shortcut you will open up after you defeat the Taurus Demon so you can easily access the bonfire again from further in Undead Burg.

[W7RE]

That's actually a shortcut you will open up after you defeat the Taurus Demon so you can easily access the bonfire again from further in Undead Burg.

Yea you have to approach the ladder from above to unlock that path.

[Cobra951]

Well, I think I'm finished.  I hate being right about this game.  I was hoping that I would find the game enjoyable somehow, but my fears turned out to be spot on.  I cannot get past this Taurus guy.  I've tried a couple of dozen times, and it's just too ragequittingly frustrating.  Once he's on me, I don't have a chance to do jack shit.  And this is just an early taste of what's to come, right?  I'm not fighting the hardest boss in the game, or even close to it, I'm sure.

So, yeah.  $5 was the perfect price tag to give this a whirl.  I got more than that out of it.  Now it's time to do something that fosters more positive emotions.

[W7RE]

I haven't played in a couple days. I found the blacksmith and had to stop and grind out a bunch of souls to do some upgrades. I feel them when up against weak enemies, but against tougher enemies it feels like they make no difference. Maybe I need to grind out some levels? I'm not happy about the idea of stopping and clearing the same area over and over so I can level up and make more progress. I like it the game, but progress is just so slow when I'm repeating the same areas over and over for souls (not because I'm dying), I start to get bored and think of other games I could be spending my time on.

Yes, I know Kane & Lynch is showing as my last played game in my sig. It's not good. I didn't quit DS to play K&L lol.

[Quemaqua]

Cobra - Well, that's partially true and partially not. I mean, any particular situation in the game can give you specific trouble based on your build or your understanding of the mechanics or whatever else, and what ends up being super tough for one person isn't for another. For instance, everyone talked about how one boss was so easy and it was no big deal and they had no trouble, etc., then I got to it and got creamed time and again despite it supposedly being one of the easier/weaker bosses in the game. I just had to figure out how to get through it with my build, which I did, though it took a little work.

If you haven't tried this yet, the easy way past the Taurus dude is to just firebomb the living shit out of him. Buy/find 5 or 6 of those firebomb items, and just lay into him. That should either finish him off entirely or soften him up enough for you to finish the job. Did you try the earlier advice on divebombing him from the top of the tower?

If you've tried all that and you still haven't made progress, then I'd venture to say that yeah, this is not the game for you. But if you haven't, or if you haven't tried reading a guide to get for some assistance, see if the above advice or a guide might not steer you in the right direction. And hell, don't be afraid to watch YouTube videos if you really want to check and see if there's something you're missing, or a pattern you aren't exploiting, whatever. They can be helpful in seeing how a player might successfully maneuver physically during a fight, since sometimes enclosed spaces make it tough to figure out just how to navigate a boss battle as you're fighting. I believe I died 3 or 4 times to the Taurus demon before trying the firebombs, then realized how well they worked and cleared him without issue on the next attempt.

W7RE - You might do a little grinding, but it's not that grindy of a game. A little here and there should be plenty. It rewards skill and tactics as much as stats. That said, there are some guys that are just going to out-level and thus kill you too easily. Given the somewhat more open nature of the game, certain areas are definitely too tough at various stages of the game. You'll usually know when you're in one of those.

[W7RE]

Right now I'm at the bonfire right by the smith in Undead Parish. I've used all my materials to upgrade my Thief Dagger, Wooden Shield, and the armor my thief started in. The dagger is +5, the shield is +2, the hood is +2, and the rest of the armor is +1. I'm level 22 with 15 vit, 16 str, 17 dex.

I've got 3 tough spots right now, and have only really tried to tackle one of them with my upgrades:
-Guy with club down below where Taurus Demon is (tried him a few times after upgrades, they didn't seem to make any difference)
-Guy in a church with a tower shield and an asshole upstairs shooting magic at me from above (tried him once before the upgrades, and got one shot)
-Something big that shoots lightning, and is in the next room from the smith. (haven't tangled with this guy at all yet)

I don't think I have anywhere else new I can go yet, so I'm gonna have to tackle one of those.

[K-man]

Cobra, I think a little more patience with the game could yield some great rewards. But if you're not having fun then it's a waste for you.  As for the Taurus demon, he becomes fairly easy to tackle if you dive bomb him from the top of the tower where the archers are. 

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are probably the best example of a "love it or hate it" game I can think of.  It's certainly not for everyone.

[Quemaqua]

W7, I want to say there's another way to approach the tower shield dude's area, but I honestly forget. It's been too long, I can't remember quite how all of that area connects together. But that's pretty much what you're going to have to deal with. Club dude is going to be someone you probably take out later in the game a bit. Lightning dude is someone you'll deal with before long.

[W7RE]

W7, I want to say there's another way to approach the tower shield dude's area, but I honestly forget. It's been too long, I can't remember quite how all of that area connects together. But that's pretty much what you're going to have to deal with. Club dude is going to be someone you probably take out later in the game a bit. Lightning dude is someone you'll deal with before long.

Yea I've been to the tower shield guy from 2 sides now. I think. The path leading into the Undead Parish from the dragon bridge leads straight to him if you keep going straight. If you go down into a basement type area instead, the path winds around and you end up on the right side of that building, and there's a doorway in to him. (I didn't venture in, just looks like the same place at a glance) In front of that door is the path that leads to the smith, to a fat knight at a closed gate, and the lightning thing by the smith.

[Cobra951]

I haven't played in a couple days. I found the blacksmith and had to stop and grind out a bunch of souls to do some upgrades. I feel them when up against weak enemies, but against tougher enemies it feels like they make no difference. Maybe I need to grind out some levels? I'm not happy about the idea of stopping and clearing the same area over and over so I can level up and make more progress. I like it the game, but progress is just so slow when I'm repeating the same areas over and over for souls (not because I'm dying), I start to get bored and think of other games I could be spending my time on.

Exactly.  Not only am I repeating the same 20-second death march over and over, but I'm also trudging my way through the whole area to get to it.  Guy at the stairs charges, then the archer, then another guy runs up the stairs, dodge the infinite firebombs, lure a guy, charge the other two, around the building and upstairs to tackle 3 more, up the spiral stairs to the sniper, down to 2 easy dudes and a tougher guy with a spear, up the stairs to another, them finally up the big spiral to the white light.  I have the sequence etched into my brain.

Yes, I remember when this was gaming.  My 8-bit NES is stored lovingly.  I was young then, and I guess it didn't bother me to spend countless hours repeating a long sequence between save points until I got it right.  Not no more.

And even so, the decision to move on comes not so much from this one impediment, but by the promise that the rest of the game is a parade of such torture spots, which will only get more difficult and frustrating.  Because of the positive commentary I keep reading here, and all over, really, I gave the game a shot, to make sure I wasn't missing something.  It seems I did not.  I pegged it quite accurately.

Que, I have 5 firebombs.  Once I use them, they're gone.  They don't come back after I die.  I paid attention to a bad sign, and killed the merchant to loot him.  Hahaha!  Everything in the fucking game respawns when I rest or die, but the merchant?  Nah!  He stays dead.  His body is there forever as evidence to my noobness, and the punishing game design.

[Quemaqua]

I know you hate things that are too difficult, and hoped this wouldn't end up being your judgment, but I guess I figured you should try it, because for a lot of people it doesn't end up being as hard as they think it will be. I really didn't find the game particularly tough except on those few fairly frustrating occasions, but there were less than a handful, and those in a game I spent at least 60 hours with. So I wanted to encourage you to at least give it a shot. It's a bummer if it doesn't turn out to be your thing, but I won't bother encouraging you to keep at it. You will if you will, and if not, at least it was only five bucks! And you could give your copy as a Christmas gift to someone you hate!

[W7RE]

The death of that merchant is probably hurting you a lot. I farmed that area and bought like 50 firebombs from him, a bow, and like 500 arrows, as well as the key and repair item. The firebomb guys near the bonfire are super easy with a bow.

I can see why the tedium of clearing an area would turn someone off to this game. It's not bad the first few times, but now clearing Undead Burgh super tedious. I can 1-2 shot all the enemies, but I have to treat them all like a serious threat or I get owned. Then if I want to level up I have to clear an area repeatedly, resetting the enemies at the bonfire because there's just not enough of them to get the souls to level up even once. I like the combat, and the difficulty doesn't bother me in most situations, but there's a certain tedious nature to a lot of what you're doing that can drag it down.

[K-man]

If you want tedious, farm the depths for humanity and green titanite.

[Quemaqua]

There's nothing here any more tedious than any other RPG, and considerably less than most. Or so I thought, at least.

[TheOtherBelmont]

The death of that merchant is probably hurting you a lot. I farmed that area and bought like 50 firebombs from him, a bow, and like 500 arrows, as well as the key and repair item. The firebomb guys near the bonfire are super easy with a bow.

I can see why the tedium of clearing an area would turn someone off to this game. It's not bad the first few times, but now clearing Undead Burgh super tedious. I can 1-2 shot all the enemies, but I have to treat them all like a serious threat or I get owned. Then if I want to level up I have to clear an area repeatedly, resetting the enemies at the bonfire because there's just not enough of them to get the souls to level up even once. I like the combat, and the difficulty doesn't bother me in most situations, but there's a certain tedious nature to a lot of what you're doing that can drag it down.

I'm confused as to why you're having to grind so much. What's your soul level and stats?  You really shouldn't have to grind in that area of the game at all.  If you are heading into the church you are going the right way.  The big guy in the church with the tower shield doesn't respawn after you kill him and you should be able to kite him out to the more open area just outside the church building to give yourself more room to kill him and then make your way the the upper levels of the church to take out the guy with the magic upstairs.  The big guy below the blacksmith is pretty tough but you could easily run past him to another area of the game if you wanted but you should be able to clear out the rest of the church before you even consider that.