Topic: New Xbox

[Xessive]

Here's one more reason to steer clear of it: Xbox One to be region-locked

Regional discrimination has always been a hot topic for me. Archaic notions of region-locking have no place in this day and age of connectivity, be it digital or physical.

[idolminds]

You don't have to watch all this, I sure didn't. TotalBiscuit is apparently against used games.

CliffyB linked it on Twitter as if it was the end of the discussion. David Jaffe apparently agrees. They are so very, very wrong. I only watched half the video but I didn't buy into many of the arguments at all. No more wear and tear? Wait, isn't that a good thing to have solved? And I don't give a shit about Gamestop or GAME(UK). If the industry wants to hurt them or have them go away, fine. But you shouldn't have to trample all over everyone else to get there.

I like this article on GameIndustry.biz.

If you take out the ability to lend and borrow games, the process of sharing enjoyment and entertainment that's been at the heart of my gaming hobby since it began, I don't know that my time or investment in consoles is justified any more. It's terribly sad to think that key decision makers in our industry are now apparently of the impression that "social" in terms of prancing around like a drunken tit in front of a camera is the future of the medium, while "social" in terms of pressing a game box into a friend's hand with a gleam in your eyes and words of praise and enthusiasm on your lips is to be frowned upon and treated as criminal.

Seriously, go read that. He points out the uncomfortable truth that game dev costs have soared, marketing costs have soared, and unless you are CoD you are not going to make that back. They are attacking used games because they think that will mean more sales and a better chance of making that money back, but its not the right solution. Don't kill used games. Kill unsustainable development.

EDIT: Yeah region locking is shit, too. I'm really happy the PS3 isn't region locked. So far I've only imported one game but I am extremely pleased that I wasn't prevented from doing so.

[MysterD]

The thing Total Biscuit doesn't mention - PC doesn't have ONE service forced onto it b/c PC is chaos and anarchy. On a XBO/X360, you deal w/ XBL digitally or go to retail. On PS3/4, you deal w/ PSN digitally or retail.

On PC, there's competition - there's more than one service here on our platform. Obviously, there's retail - but, it's more than that. Retail is probably not where most people on the PC - especially in somewhere as connected as the USA - are buying their PC games. Many likely have gone digital. Steam is NOT the only platform here on the PC. Steam (the main PC platform, love it or hate it) is competing w/ also GameStop PC App, Gamersgate, GreenManGaming, Amazon DVG, GOG, GameFly, GetGamesGo, G4WL, etc etc etc - in which ALL of these guys are constantly battling for your hard-earned $. If Steam had ZERO competition, do you think they'd have the awesome sales like they do? I would say - probably not.
Also, Steam makes A LOT of money on other things that they do - such as TF2 Hats and the new Steam Trading Card Beta program.

BTW, anyone want to get into Steam Trading Card Beta?
I got 3 invites here.

Also, DRM is stomping so much on consumer rights, it ain't funny. If a game sucks - I should be able to get rid of it, give it away, and/or sell it off to someone else or to some retailer. That was the only good thing about the actual disc being DRM - if I had got rid of the disc, I couldn't play my game, in the old days; it was no longer mine (look at it this way - my rights to play the game got revoked, when I got rid of the disc). On the PC - if I hate a Steam-required game or Origin game - it's mine forever; it's my loss, "Deal with it." They (console companies) could do like GMG Capsule - there would have to be some sort of DRM here in the program, that should handle what games you have, if a game is locked out from you playing, and whatnot - since games on consoles are going to force installs in the future - so I should NOT have access to what was once my game, that I traded to say another gamer or back to the digital store.

I also believe that a game after being around for quite a while, can be had cheap (think like often on sale at say $10-$20 or less), and will have NO MORE DLC/Expansions for it - the SP portions (if there is one) should have their DRM pulled. Seriously - people who pirate games, they're pirating the newest stuff, not what's old.

I don't know - but the more I think about this, the more I think the consumers will somehow get screwed, whether one way or another.

[Xessive]

Sure, I'd love to check out the Steam Trading Card beta! Thanks D!

[Pugnate]

The Xbox One region restriction kills it for me.

[Cobra951]

Here's one more reason to steer clear of it: Xbox One to be region-locked

Regional discrimination has always been a hot topic for me. Archaic notions of region-locking have no place in this day and age of connectivity, be it digital or physical.

I had read about that a few days ago.  But it was like hearing that Bernie Madoff also has bad breath.  I was already not going to be sending my money that way under any circumstances.  It didn't even occur to me to mention it.

[K-man]

[Pugnate]

I am guessing that once E3 rolls around people will forget about these issues. In fact, a year from now I am sure the Xbox One will be doing quite OK.

[gpw11]

I don't think they'll be going under or anything,  but I feel like this will be damaging and is an excellent opportunity for Sony.  And maybe Nintendo,  if they ever get their shit together.

[Pugnate]

Yeah I do agree. I am just saying it is early days. Who knows, maybe Sony has similar plans. They do have a great opportunity. Let's see what they do with it.

It would be sad if MS sticks to its guns, and Sony decides to cater to the fans by giving them what they want, and in the end the PS4 is a flop because publishers are flocking to the Xbox One because its draconian laws appeal to them.

In the end if EA goes Xbox One exclusive (extreme example, I know) because the console suits its business model, eventually, like it or not, most gamers will go to the Xbox One.

I hope none of this happens, but this is a possibility and it could be why Sony may still match the Xbox One DRM.

That being said, the Xbox One seems to have made these things mandatory. If Sony made these things a publisher option, then that would still be good enough to win the hearts of the core gamer audience.

[Cobra951]

It's official:

With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies.

From xbox.com

Equally official:  I will never buy this console as long as these conditions remain.

[Pugnate]

[Cobra951]

This article spells out nicely why this accursed thing should be infuriating to anyone with a long history in videogaming.  What depresses me the most is that it will probably succeed.  The massively ignorant and uncaring armies of Xbot kiddies are like the zombie apocalypse for the rest of us.

[gpw11]

I don't know, I don't think they're actually going to get away with it.  The amount of backlash on places like Reddit is huge - far more than I've seen for almost anything else to do with gaming.  And while those consumers don't represent the majority of the market, they do represent a very large portion of early adopters. Traditionally, boycotts with thing like games aren't really all that powerful, because everyone decides they want to play Spore anyway and just buy it, but with the PS3 and 360 being seen as pretty much interchangeably these days, all Sony has to do is not follow suit and they'll pick up a ton of those who are pissed off.

I don't think the Xbox One will fail, but I do think this will certainly hurt them and they'll learn a lesson.  Or at least I hope.

I also got around to watching that Total Biscuit video a bit. He has an interesting perspective in a way.  I don't agree with him in his steadfast conviction that you shouldn't be buying and selling used games anyways.   That's kind of bullshit because I do believe that if you buy a good you should be able to sell it or do whatever the fuck you want with it.  I obviously understand that it's hurtful to those that make the good and if they can find a non-harmful way of making sure you can't do that and don't blame them for trying to find loopholes. Eventually they may, but they'll have to settle on something less restrictive.

Where he does have a really good point, and one that I agree with, is regarding retailers and how their abuse of their influence basically led to this and how they're to blame for the lack of price difference between physical copies and digital downloads.   Aside from that, though, I don't think he really has a leg to stand on.

[Cobra951]

I hope you're right.  I'm skeptical that any grassroots outcry on the internet is going to have much effect on the juggernaut assembled here.  The big boys are all colluding and poised for the kill--hardware, software, distribution and marketing.  Sony may not have the option of turning its back on it.  What if, for instance, EA decides that as long as Sony doesn't conform to the consumer-raping agenda, it won't support the PS4 nearly as well as the XB1?  Sony already said it won't oppose whatever DRM each distributor decides to implement.  So while Sony's policy may not require a connection by itself, EA might require it, and Activision, and Ubisoft, etc.  The end result would be equally restrictive, one game at a time.  That's almost worse, because the system's stated policy in that case effectively would be a lie.  At least the XB1 spells it out up front.

What Total Biscuit video?

[MysterD]

What Total Biscuit video?

This one -> "The Devil's Halibut - Used Games".

It's the one Idol linked to us some few posts up of his, in this thread.

[Cobra951]

Ah, another enemy.  Thanks for the link.

[gpw11]

I hope you're right.  I'm skeptical that any grassroots outcry on the internet is going to have much effect on the juggernaut assembled here.  The big boys are all colluding and poised for the kill--hardware, software, distribution and marketing.  Sony may not have the option of turning its back on it.  What if, for instance, EA decides that as long as Sony doesn't conform to the consumer-raping agenda, it won't support the PS4 nearly as well as the XB1?  Sony already said it won't oppose whatever DRM each distributor decides to implement.  So while Sony's policy may not require a connection by itself, EA might require it, and Activision, and Ubisoft, etc.  The end result would be equally restrictive, one game at a time.  That's almost worse, because the system's stated policy in that case effectively would be a lie.  At least the XB1 spells it out up front.

What Total Biscuit video?

Shit.  Thank god I'm really good at downloading games.

[Pugnate]

They will get away with it. Evidence is in the sales figures of the Kinect.

Huge backlash against the thing and it still sold like a monster. Look at how much bad press Steam got early on, and look at it now. Granted, Steam is a free piece of software, while this is an actual console, but still.

[Xessive]

I'd wager the majority of buyers will succumb to things like "it's more powerful!" and "it has Gears of War 5!" Microsoft will prey on the ignorance and the hype they build up. If they've learned anything from the Xbox and the X360, it's that a vast games library can make a console. Even though this time around the Xbox One seems to target more than gamers, they want it to be the quintessential living room device. They're essentially trying to compete with your other living room devices (cable box, DVR, DVD/BR, HTPC, etc.).

Ironically, the PS3 is currently more of a comprehensive living room media device than the X360. Plus if you already have a Sony TV its remote control already works with the PS3 (via HDMI management) so it still retains that "dedicated media device" as opposed to the stigma the gamepad has e.g. when my parents see a gamepad they get confused and don't understand how to use the device but if they use the remote control all of a sudden it's "Oh, I get it!" The actual PS3 remote control that sleek black Sony aesthetic making it fit more among traditional living room gadgetry.

Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, my point is Microsoft's target demographic has shifted this generation; hence the new (gawd-aweful) style of the Xbox One which is geared more toward traditional living room gadgets. The Xbox and X360 were more-or-less targeting teenagers, as opposed to the PS3 which was a bigger seller among adults, particularly bachelors, and of course the Wii was the family system of choice. Microsoft wants "dad" to want the system first, retaining the "Xbox" moniker is what will keep the kids in.

[MysterD]

They will get away with it. Evidence is in the sales figures of the Kinect.

Huge backlash against the thing and it still sold like a monster. Look at how much bad press Steam got early on, and look at it now. Granted, Steam is a free piece of software, while this is an actual console, but still.

But Steam was not super-functional upon its original release. It felt more like a DRM-service, back then.
Back then, Steam didn't have Achievements; Big Picture Mode; awesome forums; awesome sales (from Steam or other digital distributors); Friends Lists; fast Internet connections like some of us have now; better software/hardware to really take advantage of something like Steam; Cloud Save support; other useful functions; etc etc.

Plus, offline mode actually works nowadays, for most. Back then, it was really hit and miss for many. {shrug}

[Xessive]

Yeah Steam sucked in the beginning, and in some ways sucks now too. Despite my commitment to it right now I still recognize its shortcomings.

Anyway, interestingly enough: RedBox creates a forum for gamers to complain about next-gen consoles

It looks like there's some traction for the rental/used games movement from a retailer rather than the general public.

EDIT:
While I was fumbling around online news I came upon this:
Reddit user finds Microsoft worker making positive Xbox One posts?
That's just downright despicable, further souring an already rancid taste in my mouth.. Which begs me to question why I even keep ingesting the stuff. I've already written off the Xbox One.

[Cobra951]

. . . Which begs me to question why I even keep ingesting the stuff. I've already written off the Xbox One.

I know.  Some days it feels like a moral imperative, like trying to keep babies away from razor blades.  Other days it feels pathetic to keep retreading the same ruts into the ground.  They keep reaching for the blades, and laughing at you for trying to stop them.

[Xessive]

I know.  Some days it feels like a moral imperative, like trying to keep babies away from razor blades.  Other days it feels pathetic to keep retreading the same ruts into the ground.  They keep reaching for the blades, and laughing at you for trying to stop them.

Hahaha yeah, the frustration!

I guess for me the greatest fear is how this can shape (distort) the future of gaming, potentially the entertainment industry as a whole (as Microsoft and various others would have it).

[idolminds]

$499

The price was the most interesting announcement at the conference.

[W7RE]

I'm watching the live show thing on the 360, and they just said that the 2 free games per month are yours to keep forever. They specifically said that if you cancel Gold, you still have those games to play.

Hopefully the games aren't always as old as the July ones are.

[sirean_syan]

This gets bad.

Looks like things are not only region locked, "Xbox One games are for activation and distribution only in specified geographic regions." Those regions are a list of 21 countries. Live in Greece or Argentina? Fuck you man.

There's also this:


I think the wording I've seen is 1.5mbps is the recommended or optimal speed, but still. That seems pretty lofty from what I've hear. Idol is never going to be able to own this system.

[Cobra951]

Why would any of us ever want to own this system?  It's like they're trying to get people pissed off now.

[Xessive]

Are these guys serious? Are they deliberately antagonizing themselves for some hidden agenda?

[MysterD]

Are these guys serious? Are they deliberately antagonizing themselves for some hidden agenda?

Maybe they want to get back into PC gaming w/ a majorly-revamped G4WL....

[Cobra951]

Are these guys serious? Are they deliberately antagonizing themselves for some hidden agenda?

The thought has crossed my mind.

[idolminds]

Man, thats a sales pitch. "Don't have the connection for our bullshit? Then you can buy last generations 8 year old hardware!"



Or, you know, a PS4.

[gpw11]

This isn't even subtle


Honestly,  I don't think it's immoral for a company to plant moles on review sites or message boards.  I mean, we just have to know that they're going to do it....you know, because we've known that they have been doing for the last ten years.  BUT at least be fucking good at it.

[idolminds]

haha, reading that guys posts is hilarious.

[Xessive]

Damn, that guy comes off as a braindead lackey.

[Pugnate]

I am sure it is just a fanboy. PS3 fans used similar arguments in favor of the PS3 and in defense of the price tag because the were getting the 'blu ray'.

[Cobra951]

Several comment sections out there are dotted with such defenses of the indefensible.  I hadn't thought of the possibility of deliberately planted moles.  The more educated trolls very well might be.

[Xessive]

I am sure it is just a fanboy. PS3 fans used similar arguments in favor of the PS3 and in defense of the price tag because the were getting the 'blu ray'.

Yeah but it makes less sense to use the argument here when both consoles have it! haha The PS3 was very expensive for a console, especially back in 2006, but both systems had different specifications and hardware. This time, the specs are close (despite the PS4 using 8GB DDR5 RAM and the Xbox One using 8GB DDR3 RAM) if not the same, in terms of hardware no one can one-up the other, it all boils down to service and price. On those merits alone, Sony is kicking the snot out of Microsoft, as was illustrated in several animated GIFs Add to that the possibility of changing hard drives and that the PS4 may actually be technically superior (down at the nano-second level) and you've got a clear winner.

[Pugnate]

No I mean back then the blu-ray drive was the cause of the added expense of the Playstation over the Xbox. This time, it is the Kinect that is causing the Xbox One to be more expensive. The PS4 doesn't come with its own camera thingee.

Same argument back then when the PS3 cost more because of the expense of the Blu-Ray.

[sirean_syan]

The difference? The Blu Ray drive wasn't inherently stupid and had the potential to help all games with all the extra space.

Still, there was no denying that the system was too expensive for the time and it obviously hurt their sales for the first year or two. The problems with the perception of the Xbox are an entirely different can of worms.