Topic: New Xbox

[Pugnate]

OK, but ultimately the Blu-Ray was still $100 extra for something gamers didn't want. You can talk about extra space advantages, but it didn't make much of a difference considering the competition did just fine playing the same games from DVD.

The only real use of Blu-Ray was to watch films. I can argue that Kinect is more of a benefit to games than Blu-ray.

In the end, personally speaking, I bought the PS3 because of the Blu-Ray, not in spite of it. But I am the minority. There was a lot of hatred for the extra cost of the PS3 because of the Blu-Ray.

Xbox One has other problems aside from the extra expense because of a peripheral no one wants. The DRM, the used game stuff etc.

But I see the exact same arguments being made by Xbox One people not winning to jump ship, as the PS3 fans made for the extra cost they were paying. (My console of choice is more expensive than yours because it comes with a nifty piece of hardware, yours skips out on.)

In the end, I think whatever hardware a system boasts, it must be at a sweet spot in terms of price. I think the sweet spot is $299, though probably opening price is $399. Try to cram as much as you can in that $400.

[gpw11]

I think the thing is that with the PS3 the only real complaint was the price.  With the XboxOne,  on the other hand,  the price is just a small drop in a giant bucket of complaints

[Pugnate]

I do agree that it is a collection of problems.

[sirean_syan]

Xbox One. It's got 99 problems but Blu-Ray ain't one of them.

[Xessive]

Xbox One. It's got 99 problems but Blu-Ray ain't one of them.

Ha!

I don't get why Microsoft is messing with the formula that made the X360 successful.

[MysterD]

Ha!

I don't get why Microsoft is messing with the formula that made the X360 successful.

Given the more PC-like specs for these new consoles, games can now go full-blown HD w/ high-res' textures, audio, etc - just like they do on PC (think Bioshock: Infinite, Hitman: Absolution, RAGE, TSW, Max Payne 3, etc) and many of these games are over 20+ GB.
That'll fit on one BR.
Easier than dealing w/ multiple DVD discs.
{Shrug}

But the problem w/ BR could be - how much does Sony make per-BR disc?
M$ must hate giving them $ per BR-disc sale.

[idolminds]

MS has some major PR issues to handle. This article got tweeted by MSNBCs Rachel Maddow.

[Cobra951]

Given the more PC-like specs for these new consoles, games can now go full-blown HD w/ high-res' textures, audio, etc - just like they do on PC (think Bioshock: Infinite, Hitman: Absolution, RAGE, TSW, Max Payne 3, etc) and many of these games are over 20+ GB.
That'll fit on one BR.
Easier than dealing w/ multiple DVD discs.
{Shrug}

But the problem w/ BR could be - how much does Sony make per-BR disc?
M$ must hate giving them $ per BR-disc sale.

How is any of that radically different from what we already have?  Current consoles do HD and games with huge sizes.  What does that have to do with a perceived need for new restrictive policies?  The PS3 already handles Bluray.  The specs of Gen 7 were also PC-like when it launched.

MS has some major PR issues to handle. This article got tweeted by MSNBCs Rachel Maddow.

I saw that yesterday.  Yes, PR nightmare.  I don't see how anyone at Microsoft could be surprised about it, though.

[MysterD]

How is any of that radically different from what we already have?  Current consoles do HD and games with huge sizes.  What does that have to do with a perceived need for new restrictive policies?

Wait...I thought we were talking about why is M$ going to BR...
X360 uses DVD, not BR.

[gpw11]

Nah,  we were just talking about the price difference between the consoles and saying that the PS3 was more expensive this generation due to BR (although I think a lot of it was the Cell development),  and that was a major criticism.   With the new Xbox, it's more expensive and does have more features,  but the price isn't the leading reason people don't like the console.

[Pugnate]

Xbox One. It's got 99 problems but Blu-Ray ain't one of them.

Yea well, it is Kinect now. If you don't get what I was saying, then I am giving up. Seriously, slow much?

[Pugnate]

The Blu-Ray drive was expensive at the time per unit, and it is what Sony ultimately said (more than cell development) pushed the PS3's price so much higher than the 360s. Sony stubbornly kept the Blu-Ray as part of the PS3 console, even though gamers didn't want to pay extra for that feature.

Here, the Kinect on its own costs what, $150? The only reason the Xbox One is so much more expensive than the PS4 is because they, (like Sony insisted with the Blu-Ray in the PS3), are insisting on including the Kinect as part of the package. I am sure they are still selling it at a loss. The original Kinect add on sold well, but the curiosity factor is now gone. Unless they can make Kinect 2.0 sexy.

So I hope you get what my point was now Sirean. If you don't, I am sure MysterD can explain it to you. (in short, I am not saying the cost effective blu-ray drive is a problem now)

[Pugnate]

Nah,  we were just talking about the price difference between the consoles and saying that the PS3 was more expensive this generation due to BR (although I think a lot of it was the Cell development),  and that was a major criticism.   With the new Xbox, it's more expensive and does have more features,  but the price isn't the leading reason people don't like the console.

What really bothers me is the arrogance. How can they be that arrogant? I remember that guy who got fired on Twitter for those insensitive comments, but look at it now. They said they have a console for people who don't have an internet connect. It is called the Xbox 360.

Either they are just dumb as fuck, or they know something we don't. Are they about to get their hands on an exclusive publisher?

[idolminds]

Sy was just making a joke/reference to the Jay-z song "99 Problems" and was essentially saying Xbone has plenty of issues unrelated to the cost of the hardware.

[Pugnate]

Yeah, I get the reference. I thought the joke was in response to what I said. If he wasn't, I apologize.

[Pugnate]

Yeah but it makes less sense to use the argument here when both consoles have it! haha The PS3 was very expensive for a console, especially back in 2006, but both systems had different specifications and hardware. This time, the specs are close (despite the PS4 using 8GB DDR5 RAM and the Xbox One using 8GB DDR3 RAM) if not the same, in terms of hardware no one can one-up the other, it all boils down to service and price. On those merits alone, Sony is kicking the snot out of Microsoft, as was illustrated in several animated GIFs Add to that the possibility of changing hard drives and that the PS4 may actually be technically superior (down at the nano-second level) and you've got a clear winner.

The difference is that now the Xbox One forces the Kinect down your throat while the PS4 has kept its camera an optional $40 addon. Back then Blu-Ray was the thing being forced down our throats.

Blu-Ray is much cheaper to add to a console then it was 10 years ago.

[Xessive]

The difference is that now the Xbox One forces the Kinect down your throat while the PS4 has kept its camera an optional $40 addon. Back then Blu-Ray was the thing being forced down our throats.

Blu-Ray is much cheaper to add to a console then it was 10 years ago.

Yeah but the PS3 was that much more expensive for more than just the Blu-Ray drive. It had a CEL processor, a faster GPU, and initially larger built-in hard drives (3 options 40GB, 60GB, and 80GB) [20GB was Japan-only at the time]. It was technically a superior device, so you were paying for more than just a Blu-Ray drive, but where it failed was its difficulty to develop for and hence its relatively smaller game library.

Plus, it serves to mention that the PS3 was also a region-free device, it was just PSN and publishers that imposed any form of restriction i.e. a Region 1 game would work on a Region 2 PS3 so long as the game's record was available on PSN for Region 2, alternatively you can create a Region 1 PSN account to guarantee it. On the X360, if you got the NTSC model it would not read PAL games and vice versa. This went on until some publishers decided to go with multi-region or region-free game discs. That said, both were inextricably bound to what the developers and publishers wanted in the end.

Now, the spec difference between the PS4 and the Xbox One is virtually negligible yet the Xbox One is still at least $60 more expensive if you pack the cost of a PS4 Eye with a PS4.

Sony found a way to hit a launch price sweet spot and that will serve them well. We've yet to see what Microsoft has planned for the next few months. They could intentionally be marketing a "redemption campaign" since tales of fallen heroes redeeming themselves appeal to the human psyche. I just hope we don't reach a point where naïve gamers go like "Oh, they have all these games on Xbox One? All is forgiven!" Fuck dat!

[Pugnate]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/07/ps3-price-could-drop-100-due-to-blu-ray-diode-supply/

As blue-laser pick-up heads (PUHs) for use in the PlayStation 3 (PS3) are expected to increase in supply and decrease in price, the production cost of the game console could be reduced by as much as US$100, according to Taiwan-based makers of game consoles and components.

Eventually the price of the Blu-Ray diodes fell enough for the PS3 to be able to match the 360. It is estimated that the Blu-Ray diodes were costing the PS3 an extra $250 to $300!

I don't know why you guys didn't know how much the Blu-ray cost. Maybe I am just in a bad mood and I apologize, but I feel like everyone here is arguing for the sake of it. I mean if you guys are going to throw opinions, please tell us how you formed those opinions?

Maybe because I've read Sony management also admitting that the Blu-Ray player decision was the single factor in pushing the price so sky high. Yes, other factors had a hand in the PS3 price, but components in the end don't cost so much. Without blu-ray, the PS3 would have probably matching or within $50 of the Xbox 360.

Yeah but the PS3 was that much more expensive for more than just the Blu-Ray drive.

Yes, but then have you considered that the price different between the PS3 and 360 was greater than the price difference between the Xbox One and the PS4 now.

The Xbox 360 launched at $400, the PS3 launched at $600. The price difference was of $200. The average quality Blu-Ray player at the time was $800+, and the PS3 was considered the best. It just seems like common sense.

Yes, it including extra USBs and other stuff, but really, when it comes to mass production of components, these things don't cost that much. Without Blu-Ray, I have little doubt that the PS3 would have been at least $150 cheaper.

Right now the Kinect is a really expensive add-on that to me, has shades of the Blu-Ray saga with the PS3. Gamers don't want it, and it is the single factor in what makes the price difference of $100. With the PS3, the single biggest factor was the Blu-Ray, which accounted for a huge chunk of that $200 difference last generation.

[Pugnate]

but where it failed was its difficulty to develop for and hence its relatively smaller game library.

Nah. That wasn't a huge factor. All the titles were hitting cross platform. The problem was that it was 1 year late to the 360 party, and it was more expensive. The masses want the price sweet spot.

With the new Xbox, it's more expensive and does have more features,  but the price isn't the leading reason people don't like the console.

I dunno, I disagree. I think money is the lead cause of anything. The Wii sold because it had a gimmick AND it was cheap.

I'd like to say that if the Xbox One was $299 and the PS4 was $399, I guarantee you that most of the drones in the public would have been willing to overlook ANY of these current issues for the price.

Or had the PS3 been $600 and the Xbox One $499, again, I doubt you'd have the same reaction.

I am not talking about us, the people with some principles. Talking about the masses.

[Xessive]

Yep, sheeple do tend to go the way we don't want to go.

Btw, there were several development issues with certain non-exclusive titles that prevented, or in some cases delayed, their release on the PS3. For example, Splinter Cell Conviction never made it to the PS3. Mass Effect never made it, ME2 eventually made it about a year late to the party. Fallout 3, Oblivion, and Skyrim have all been released on the PS3 but had (and still have) numerous performance bugs. It's a testament to the difficulties developers were facing with the platform.

Sony have expressed that they have learned from that experience and that was the drive to move to a x86 architecture.

[Pugnate]

Mod Edit: Use your leet hacker skills better man.

[Xessive]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7559913472/hD1094FD6/

LOL haha

[W7RE]

One suggestion that I've heard that I really like, is the idea of allowing offline play as long as the disc is in the drive. If the disc is in the drive, the game would work regardless of connection. Remote/family play already requires a connection, just block this if the primary console has been offline for 24+ hours.

I heard someone mention this to someone from Microsoft (I can't remember who, maybe Phil Spencer), and they thought it was an interesting idea, so maybe something like that could get implemented. It seems like that would alleviate most of the online requirement issues.

[Xessive]

Or, y'know, just get/keep an Xbox 360.

Microsoft's way of saying go buy a PS4 without actually saying "buy a PS4."

[idolminds]

One suggestion that I've heard that I really like, is the idea of allowing offline play as long as the disc is in the drive. If the disc is in the drive, the game would work regardless of connection. Remote/family play already requires a connection, just block this if the primary console has been offline for 24+ hours.

I heard someone mention this to someone from Microsoft (I can't remember who, maybe Phil Spencer), and they thought it was an interesting idea, so maybe something like that could get implemented. It seems like that would alleviate most of the online requirement issues.

That was my first thought as well when they announced the online check in. I have a hard time believing that someone at MS didn't also have the same idea, and had it rejected. Its just too obvious. But with this backlash maybe they will rethink implementing it. If you could have your Xbone 100% offline and the only "downside" is having to keep discs in the drive (just like every console in history), then that would be great.

[MysterD]

Oh my....

[Xessive]

And of course none of these titles will make it to pc proper.

[Pugnate]

One suggestion that I've heard that I really like, is the idea of allowing offline play as long as the disc is in the drive. If the disc is in the drive, the game would work regardless of connection. Remote/family play already requires a connection, just block this if the primary console has been offline for 24+ hours.

I heard someone mention this to someone from Microsoft (I can't remember who, maybe Phil Spencer), and they thought it was an interesting idea, so maybe something like that could get implemented. It seems like that would alleviate most of the online requirement issues.

I think their problem is with piracy and I am sure game discs can be pirated.

[MysterD]

And of course none of these titles will make it to pc proper.

If all this is true - this just adds to the PR nightmare M$ been having w/ XB1.

And yeah, that makes it even more screwed-up, too - that much of this stuff likely won't hit the PC!
{pout}

M$ could at least use a AMD/ATI card, since XB1 is supposed to be using that! It's hilarious that - they're supposedly flat-out using a more powerful NVidia card!
XB1 being based off of Win 8, yet M$ is using Win 7 - oh, that's just hilarious! Their own employees don't even like their own Win 8 OS, do they?

If all of this is true - EPIC FAIL, M$!

[Pugnate]

Oh my....

This happens at every E3.

[MysterD]

This happens at every E3.

True...
...but you'd figure they'd at least use AMD/ATI vid card & Win 8 - you know, something comparable to what the XB1 specs are!

[idolminds]

Power of the cloud. Also notice he talks up the new trigger rumble but then the games are demoed on arcade sticks and a wheel. WTF?

In other news, Firefox thinks I have enough badwidth for Xbox One.


How much bandwidth? ALL THE BANDWIDTH!

[Xessive]

With the "Power of the Cloud" the Xbox One can do things that are technically possible with current gen!

[sirean_syan]

Hasn't actually happened yet, but huh.

So yeah. There's that.

[Xessive]

As anticipated, the only way Xbox One stands a chance is by a total reversal. That said, the Xbox One will still cost $499 and PS4 at $399 still gives it the edge.

[K-man]

MS confirmed.

[idolminds]

Yup, confirmed.

Don Mattrick: Last week at E3, the excitement, creativity and future of our industry was on display for a global audience.

For us, the future comes in the form of Xbox One, a system designed to be the best place to play games this year and for many years to come. As is our heritage with Xbox, we designed a system that could take full advantage of advances in technology in order to deliver a breakthrough in game play and entertainment. We imagined a new set of benefits such as easier roaming, family sharing, and new ways to try and buy games. We believe in the benefits of a connected, digital future.

Since unveiling our plans for Xbox One, my team and I have heard directly from many of you, read your comments and listened to your feedback. I would like to take the opportunity today to thank you for your assistance in helping us to reshape the future of Xbox One.

You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world.

So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:

An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games – After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today – There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.

In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.

These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.

We appreciate your passion, support and willingness to challenge the assumptions of digital licensing and connectivity. While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content. We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds.

Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year.

[Xessive]

Damage control.

I still find it ironic and amusing that The Witcher 3, developed by CD Projekt RED (A Polish Developer), would not be playable in Poland since the Xbox One would only function in 21 countries explicitly, none of which were Poland. I guess that worry is settled now though.

[MysterD]

So, what happens if that Day One patch to patch-out DRM doesn't work?
Or Microsoft changes their mind and re-enables it, after the XB180 actually does numbers?

[Cobra951]

Ah, hell.  Things were so black and white, for once.  Now it's back to seeing what shakes, and weighing alternatives.