Topic: Xbox One: $399 w/o Kinect, media apps w/o Gold

[idolminds]

WARNING SIRENS

First, beginning on June 9th, in all markets where Xbox One is sold, we will offer Xbox One starting at $399*. This is a new console option that does not include Kinect.

Coming in June, anyone with an Xbox will be able to access popular entertainment experiences – whether or not you have an Xbox Live Gold membership. This includes great gaming apps like Machinima, Twitch and Upload, popular video services like Netflix, Univision Deportes, GoPro, Red Bull TV and HBO GO, sports experiences like the NFL app for Xbox One, MLB.TV, NBA Game Time, NHL Game Center and more. Microsoft experiences including Internet Explorer, Skype, OneDrive and OneGuide will also be available to all Xbox customers.

Looks like that is also true for 360 owners

[Cobra951]

That was fast.  2 observations.  One, the obvious one, they're hurting.  The $100 price disadvantage against the PS4 and the more limited territories are killing them in sales.  It makes sense to have a directly competitive price point.   Now they need to address the global issue, which brings up the next point.  Two, Kinect is holding them back, even without considering its cost.  The thing has to be programmed for each language and possibly every variation of each of those, individually.  This is the reason the XB1 is still trying to find its way into a lot of markets.  Take it, and the expected voice recognition out of the picture, and the world opens up right away.

I give them one thing.  They sure don't sit around pushing a losing proposition for very long.  For me, the Kinect was an impediment too, not because of language barrier, but because it needs a lot of space to work properly, space which I don't have, and which I have no inclination to provide.  (Come to think of it, this too could be an issue in many other countries, if not the US.)  With it and the price disparity out of the way, the new Xbox looks more attractive, closer to par with the PS4, in terms of hardware alone.  I'm still waiting for that one game that lets me know I have to have one or the other.

[Xessive]

I gotta hand it to Microsoft for trying to adapt rapidly. It's a good effort to see from any company.

Sadly, It's too little too late for someone like me.

[gpw11]

They are in so much trouble.  They doubled down on Kinect this console generation and just shot it in the head.  They've now done a 360 (ha) on pretty much their entire software and hardware strategy that they set out of the gates with. 

It's probably a good thing for them, but I really can't help but feel that this is really a last resort type of move.  Sony is killing them in sales, to the point where the PS3 overtook the 360 and then the PS4 has been blowing the One out of the water.   Kind of strange when you think about the start of the last generation where the PS3 was doing so terribly.

Honestly, I think Sony is siting in an amazing position with what they have going on right now with the PS4, Vita, PS3, and Playstation Plus (not so much PSN itself...that shit needs work).   PS+ is probably the best value in gaming right now and does a great job of locking people into the Playstation brand.  They're also actively spending time developing technologies with future potential (PS Now, their VR), and seem to have learned a lot from the past. 

It will be interesting to see if they (or if they even can) counter this somehow.

[Pugnate]

That was my first reaction, that MS was hurting and was in trouble. That's because this move seems drastic.

But apparently Xbox One has sold really really well. Not as well as the PS4, but it isn't so far behind.

What I don't understand is that if the Xbox One features worse hardware, then even at the same price, isn't the PS4 a better option? At $100 more, OK you get the Kinect.

Without the Kinect, at the same price, the Xbox One actually seems worse to me/

[Cobra951]

The hardware is a bit weaker, but not so much that it will make any difference to most buyers.  Compelling games will make all the difference, and we're still waiting on those.  Plus Microsoft isn't going to drop the price below the PS4's as some sort of admission of weaker hardware (or weaker prospects).  That would be a marketing suicide.

I've been leaning toward the PS4 too, but ironically the only game that has grabbed my interest so far as a new-gen stepping stone is Insomniac's XB1 exclusive (yeah, I know, right?) Sunset Overdrive.  So who knows what I end up buying.

[scottws]

That was my first reaction, that MS was hurting and was in trouble. That's because this move seems drastic.

But apparently Xbox One has sold really really well. Not as well as the PS4, but it isn't so far behind.

What I don't understand is that if the Xbox One features worse hardware, then even at the same price, isn't the PS4 a better option? At $100 more, OK you get the Kinect.

Without the Kinect, at the same price, the Xbox One actually seems worse to me/

One thing to keep in mind is that some people are somewhat locked-in to Xbox Live.  Not so much due to the games purchased (do XBL purchases on Xbox 360 even work on Xbox One?), but because of the group of friends they have.  My stepson was initially gung-ho about getting an Xbox One because all his friends have the 360 and play and chat together on XBL and they were just going to graduate to the Xbox One.  He's changed his tune because I was able to convince him and his friends that they should get a PS4 instead.  The echo chamber in their little group resulted in them eventually changing their minds.  I admit that a little of what I said was FUD, because how are you going to make pre-teens care about consumer rights?

In my view as an Xbox 360 owner, I really wish I had a PS3 instead.  It's not that it has been a bad experience aside from two RRoDs; on the contrary, the Xbox 360 platform saw significant improvement over time.  It's that I don't really play multiplayer (certainly not on consoles), so I'm not XBL Gold member.  I also don't care about the Halo franchise.  Considering those items and some of the games I missed out on, like Last of Us, I just don't see value in remaining a customer of Microsoft for the next console generation.  So many games these days are cross-platform and Sony's exclusives seem better than Microsoft's.  Plus you have the case that, generally, cross-platform games are running at higher frame rates and resolutions on the PS4.

In regards to Microsoft's recent announcement of a lower-priced Xbox One option that ditches the Kinect and that streaming services won't be locked behind a XBL Gold membership, I agree that it is a sign that Microsoft realizes that 1) they aren't in the position of power this generation that they were in with the Xbox 360 and the possible ramifications that means in terms of revenue and 2) the PS4 was too attractive to gamers due to the lower price point, the better specs/results, and the unpopularity of Kinect from a utility and privacy perspective.  I think Microsoft really overestimated their position in the marketplace.  They thought they could just do anything they wanted and that people were sufficiently locked into the Xbox brand that they would just follow along.  I am sure this has been a wake-up call for them.

Their strategy will probably pay dividends in the long-run.  Subsidizing the devices more heavily hurts revenue and raises expenses in the short term, but in the long term will probably result in an increase in take-up rates like it has with the Surface devices.  It might even result in a similarly powerful position like they had with the 360.  Console take-up probably resembles an exponential curve after a certain critical mass point.  The more people that get one, the more people that get one.  As the Saturn, 3DO, Jaguar, Dreamcast, Gamecube, and Wii U show, if you can't get your installed base over a certain hump, you aren't going to get the critical mass that you need to get the third parties attracted and the resulting console purchases that will come with those.  So it is important for Microsoft to do something sooner than later.

[ren]

It'll probably be a few years before I get a new console but I was going to get a PS4 just because of Kinect. I hate voice and motion controls and I have very little space so Kinect is neither wanted nor practical. It makes no sense to pay extra for a feature that I wouldn't even take out of the box.

Now with this new scenario Xbox One is back in the running. I prefer the controller to the PS4 so that alone may push me over the edge.

[Pugnate]

Cobra, most games coming out now on both consoles are on a lower resolution on the Xbox One with choppier framerates. That affects how I think about the systems, but as you say, it may not bother everyone.

So this is quite interesting:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/1080p-dropping-kinect-could-lead-to-xbox-one-performance-boost/1100-6419621/

Apparently without Kinect Xbox One could match the PS4.

But this is interesting. They are now using the phrase 'dropped Kinect from the Xbox One', which makes it sound like the Kinect is being abandoned. I wonder how the early adopters will feel about that.

Scottws,

I agree. Many of my American cousins decided to stick with the Xbox one basically because of Xbox Live.

[Xessive]

I think Microsoft's target demographic is in the United States explicitly. What turned me off of the XBOne initially was that the majority of its features only benefit people with services that are exclusively available in the USA. The TV features, the streaming apps features, they all work for the US and practically nowhere else. That first reveal of the XBOne (aside from its abysmal appearance) completely extinguished any excitement I had for it. Microsoft had made it clear that this console is not for me; it was all about TV.

[Cobra951]

Performance issues will be ironed out over time.  They always are, with the PS3's being the most recent example.  As the system software is made more efficient, and game code gets closer to the metal, I'm convinced the hardware differences between the One and the PS4 will become irrelevant.  The goal is 60 fps at 1080p--a reachable goalpost, not infinity.  Look at early games on Gen 7 vs late games.  You'd think they belong to 2 different console generations, if you didn't know better.

With that out of the way, and the initial Microsoft flubs out of the way, all that will matter is the games.  Set-top box bullshit won't matter.  Kinect won't matter.  (Once it's optional, it's no more important than any other console add-on peripheral.)  The price is the same for both contenders, and without having to teach the dumb Kinect every dialect known to man, the world markets are equally available to both as well.  So it gets back to the games, as it should be.  I hope so, anyway.  It's not good for us if either of these companies becomes too dominant.

I'm also convinced that we are well into diminishing returns at this point in the technology curve.  We're seeing a lot of cross-gen games because many of us are not ready to abandon Gen 7 just yet.  There's no compelling reason to do that.  The new gen brings graphics that are a little smoother, a little crisper and a little more detailed.  Sound has been a fully solved problem for a long time.  There is no fundamental hardware leap to wow the masses into parting with billions in cash.  Again, all about the games, not the technology.

[gpw11]

But this is interesting. They are now using the phrase 'dropped Kinect from the Xbox One', which makes it sound like the Kinect is being abandoned. I wonder how the early adopters will feel about that.

No, seriously; this move was the announcement of the death of Kinect.  The only chance for it to be widely supported and implemented was for it to be universally packaged with the hardware.  This totally cripples it's ability to be utilized in games and probably means Microsoft won't be focusing on implementing and improving it's integration with the OS.

[W7RE]

Supposedly the Xbox One reserves 10% of the CPU for Kinect. 8% for gesture and 2% for voice. There was already talk of allowing developers to disable the 8% for gesture. My concern as someone who already has an Xbox One, is will I lose access to voice commands in-game now? There are a number of voice commands that I use regularly just for OS navigation.

Xbox on
Xbox turn off
Xbox record that - record last 30 seconds of gameplay
Xbox snap Game DVR - allows me to save a recording of up to the last 5 minutes of gameplay
Xbox go to friends - goes to the friends list
Xbox go to Titanfall (or any game/app)
other's I'm forgetting right now

Are these voice commands worth $100? No, but I'd like to use them since I already have the Kinect. I'm not pissed that I paid an extra $100, that's part of being an early adopter, but I'd like to still get use out of it. If it becomes useless outside of games specifically designed for it, then I'm upset I paid the extra money.



Also, without Kinect required, I wonder how long it will be until the return of the 360 style guide popup. Right now, pressing the Xbox button shrinks your game/app down into the main tile of the UI. Holding it prompts you to turn off your controller or system. Also, a friend who does testing for MS told me that this button is called the Nexus button, and is called the same thing on the 360 controller. I always thought it was called the Guide button, even officially.

[scottws]

Regarding all this talk of CPU reservation for Kinect and how all this performance will be unlocked now without that requirement:  my understanding is that this is a CPU reservation.  Pixel-pushing is more about the GPU for most modern games.  So, while there might be a slight performance bump available, it does not necessarily mean that all cross-platform games will now be at identical resolutions and framerates on both the Xbox One and PS4.

With regards to Cobra saying that performance issues will be ironed out over time, that is true but the architecture of the Sony and Microsoft systems are very similar this time around.  This means that performance improvements for Xbox One games will likely apply to PS4 as well.

[Cobra951]

So it looks like I'm getting an XB1 (XBO? XO?  Now that I'll own one, I need to pick one.  I hate "Xbone".)  There were some bundles floating around, with the white console and Sunset Overdrive for $400 first capturing my attention.  But then the (normal black) console + AC Unity + AC Black Flag for the same price hit the scene.  Since the SO bundle releases tomorrow, I was scouring around the relevant websites, and ran into this.  That did it.  $350 for console + the new Unity game + the new-gen version of Black Flag, which I dearly love on the X360.  It releases next Sunday.

I can easily look at this as $300 for the console + $50 for Unity + bonus BF game thrown in.  That $300 price point for a new console is sort of the trigger point in my head, for some reason.  But that alone wouldn't have gotten me to buy.  I've been mulling over the Gen-8 consoles for a good year now.  The tech superiority of the PS4 against the preferred controller, dashboard and network infrastructure of the XB1.  It came down to the controller, the games and the trust in XBL established over 8 years of near-perfect service.  While both of the games in this bundle are also available on the PS4, Sunset Overdrive and Forza Horizon 2 are not (and I do want both of these).  I see nothing exclusive on the PS4 that I really want.  And I don't want to go back to the DualShock layout and its painful left-thumb angle.  The D-pad hasn't been the main directional input since the SNES.  Seriously--Sony needs to give buyers the Xbox layout as an option.  I doubt Microsoft can patent that, and it would remove this hurdle altogether.

I haven't bought anything major for nearly 8 years now.  I got the X360 after moving back home at the end of 2006, after a year-long failed attempt at reconciling with the ex, and being with my kids.  All my stuff, PCs included, was still in New York, so it was like my only entertainment for a few weeks (until I went back to get everything).  It worked well as a distraction from the turmoil.  Oh, it seems so long ago.  Now that the excitement over this find is fading, it feels . . . weird.  Where am I going to put it?  How will the hookup go?  Is the HDMI cable included?  Will there be any issues with using my XBL account on both consoles simultaneously?  How long will the downloads take?  How big of a Day-1 update?  Yadda, yadda.  Ugh!  Another week to sort out the fallout in my brain.

Edit:  Woo!  The wireless controller converts to a wired controller by hooking it up with a USB cable.  YES!  No batteries for EVAR!

[scottws]

It's a tough choice. After owning an Xbox 360 and now a PS4, I'll say that Microsoft definitely has the better interface, but I prefer the PS4 controller (not the same as what Sony has been doing since the PSX) and there were lots of PS3 exclusives I missed out on and zero Xbox 360 exclusives I cared about.

[gpw11]

Yeah, personally I prefer the Dual Shock, but that's just me.  I have so much catching up to do that I don't think I'll be getting onboard with this generation for a while, although remote play on the PS4 + Vita tempts me.

[Quemaqua]

I far and away prefer the Dual Shock. I like the PS4's iteration of that controller a lot. I looked back on my 360 library when I was going through games to get rid of and realized it was 1/3 the size of my PS3 library, and even at that there was almost nothing I cared about. That trend continues with the Xbone. Every game anyone mentions looks exactly like any number of games from past generations. Of course that will get better as things go, but it never got "better enough" on the 360 for me. I wouldn't get an Xbone just based on Microsoft's 360 hardware blunders (it's doubtful I will ever buy another piece of Microsoft hardware due to that), and I absolutely hated the 360 interface, so I'm surprised to hear people prefer it on Xbone. I haven't actually seen it, so I'll reserve judgment, but the PS4's is elegant and simple, everything the 360 dashboard nightmare was not.

[W7RE]

I definitely prefer the Xbox controllers to the Dual Shocks. I just never cared for the stick placement or the convex stick tops. I haven't tried the PS4 controller, but it still has the same 2 major gripes I've had with the previous ones, so I'm not optimistic.

I'm still enjoying the hell out of my Xbox One, even a year later. I've been playing the shit out of Destiny, and before that it was Diablo III and Battlefield, with some Titanfall here and there. I just spent the last 4 hours playing Sunset Overdrive (started when the digital version unlocked), and that's fun as hell so far. Microsoft have also been putting out monthly updates, which have been adding some great features that were either missing when the system launched (compared to Xbox 360 functionality, like playing media across a network), or are just cool new things (like the upcoming custom backgrounds, or the ability to attach game videos to your social feed or a private message).

Also, without Kinect required, I wonder how long it will be until the return of the 360 style guide popup.

Not quite the all-encompassing mini-guide like on the 360, but there's now a little thing that pops up when you double tap the guide button. It allows you to snap apps and jump back and forth between things without needing voice commands. It brings up a 4 way menu that allows you to press left or right to bring the game or snapped app into focus (or snap the last app you had snapped, if you don't currently have on there), down to unsnap whatever is snapped, and up to bring up a list of snappable apps. Also while this menu is up, you can press x to record the last 30 seconds of gameplay. (the same as saying "xbox record that".)

[Cobra951]

Thanks for the feedback.  I totally agree about the controller layout.  The concave/convex thing didn't bother me.  In fact, it took a bit of time to get used to the raised edge on the X360 sticks.  I did play the PS2 in its day quite a bit.  The thumb angle always felt too severe.  Move thumb left to go up, retract thumb to go left, etc.  Plus the main joint didn't like it either.  When the 360 came along, the controller felt natural immediately (except for the raised edge on the sticks).

Do you have anything hooked up to the HDMI in?  I wonder how the 360 would work if I routed it through the XB1.

5 more days . . .

Edit:  Looks like the $50 price drop is official for the holidays, at least.  So not just a Best Buy deal.

[W7RE]

Thanks for the feedback.  I totally agree about the controller layout.  The concave/convex thing didn't bother me.  In fact, it took a bit of time to get used to the raised edge on the X360 sticks.  I did play the PS2 in its day quite a bit.  The thumb angle always felt too severe.  Move thumb left to go up, retract thumb to go left, etc.  Plus the main joint didn't like it either.  When the 360 came along, the controller felt natural immediately (except for the raised edge on the sticks).

The symmetrical sticks never bothered me before using the Xbox controllers. After that they just felt awkward. I can't explain it, and I know I don't get joint pain in my right thumb from the position of the right stick (and I mostly play shooters, so both sticks are used a lot). It's just what I've become used to I guess. (I've owned all 3 Xbox consoles, and only owned a PS1, so I just have way more time on the asymmetrical setups.)

Do you have anything hooked up to the HDMI in?  I wonder how the 360 would work if I routed it through the XB1.

Unfortunately it adds a delay to pass it through the Xbox One. A lot of people might not notice it, but I do and it drives me crazy. I tried to play Dead Rising 2 with it passed through the Xbox One. Less than a minute into the gameplay I decided to switch it back to it's own input. Also you can't use the game DVR app to record anything coming through the HDMI in. (I was really hoping to capture some GTAV Online moments with it.) It has to be an app that is categorized as a game. You can't "xbox record that" with Internet Explorer or YouTube, for example.

I personally would only use the HDMI for something non-interactive like video, unless you're going to be playing something turn-based or slow paced enough to not drive you nuts with the delay.

[Cobra951]

Those are the 2 things I feared (lag, bullshit block on recording).  Not doing it then.  No reason to.  Here's another question.  (I should have remembered it earlier.)  Are there any issues with logging into Live with the same account on both consoles simultaneously?

The right thumbstick rarely gets the same twitch demands that the left one does, even in FPS games.  Maybe that's why it never bothered me.  That, plus many games only make occasional use of the right stick.  The face buttons are often more important (racers, for instance), so they belong where they are.  The left stick always comes into play.  And the tips of my thumbs don't get to bump together, something I hated also.  I'm thinking a couple of DS generations back, though.  Maybe now the Sony sticks are further apart, and that wouldn't be an issue?

[W7RE]

Those are the 2 things I feared (lag, bullshit block on recording).  Not doing it then.  No reason to.  Here's another question.  (I should have remembered it earlier.)  Are there any issues with logging into Live with the same account on both consoles simultaneously?

Nope, I've logged into both consoles with the same account plenty of times before with no issue. I have no idea what other people see, but I don't get kicked on the Xbox One while doing stuff on the 360. they share a display though, so I'm not actively doing stuff on both simultaneously. I think I've used one for chat while playing on the other though.

Also, I think having one Gold account on the One will allow anyone on that console to get Gold features. You could have Gold and a family member could use their own account on your system and play games online. Though I think most of the apps don't require Gold anymore, so if you don't play online you may not need it.

Speaking of XBL Gold. If you have it, or are planning to get it, Chariot is still free for Gold members for the next 3 days. You can get it on the store here even though you don't have your Xbox One yet. (It's a cartoony indie platformer with local coop. I haven't tried it yet, but it's free so I grabbed it.)

EDIT: It looks like Crimson Dragon is still free for Gold members also (Panzer Dragoon spiritual successor). Here's the store link for that one.

[Cobra951]

Thanks for posting the links, but it's not letting me "sign in".  I am signed in, and I can see my avatar and gamertag, until I try to go to the XB1 games with gold.  Then it tells me to sign in, but the button does nothing.  I'm going to guess that it's because my profile is not tied to an XB1, so I'm out of luck until I actually sign into XBL with one.  (Makes sense, actually.)  Kinda maddening that it doesn't at least say "sorry, Charlie" or similar.  No response at all.

Edit:  Oh that's weird.  I went through the Xbox 360 games gate, and chose games with gold.  Then it let me see the XB1 games while I showed as signed in.  So I went ahead and got Chariot for free.  Let's see now if it works for Crimson Dragon.

Edit 2:  Yep!  Haha!  Thanks, man.  2 more games for free.  I know I have to stay signed into Live on the One to play these, though, unlike the free games on the 360.  (Those are truly free.)  Can't complain, though.

[W7RE]

I don't think you need to be online to play the free games, though I'm always online so I don't know. You do need to have an active XBL subscription though.

Also, the one big issue with Xbox One seems to be installs from disc. I don't have to deal with this because I've been 100% digital. Games apparently take FOREVER to install. I guess it has to do with trying to download day one patches while installing. To avoid it, you can do the following:

1) Go to network -> Go offline
2) Put in the game disc, start installing
3) wait for the ENTIRE thing to install (get to 100%)
4) go online
5) start game, update comes up
6) download patch
7) Play game only after entire patch is downloaded.

[Cobra951]

Yeah, I've read something about that issue.  Thanks for the workaround.  My guess is they'll fix it eventually.  I'll need to do a lot of downloading when I first set up the system, since all the games so far are digital (the AC games and the ones you linked).  But my intention is to get anything full price ($50+) on disc.  I have a real problem paying that much for digital.  Maybe I'll get over it eventually.

[Cobra951]

I got a Kinect!  $100 surprise in the box.  I paid $350 for this thing, and I got

- console (duh)
- controller (duh)
- codes for AC Unity and Black Flag
- chat headset (also unexpected)
- Kinect!

WTF?  I know the Kinect SKUs are going for $450 with Microsoft's holiday promo, definitely not $350.  Whatever.  I don't know if I can even set it up.  It wants 4' 7" minimum of distance, and I have less than 3' to the back wall.  Perhaps off to the side?  For now I'm ignoring it.  Just a bonus that has to be a mistake on Best Buy's part.

The console is 56% done with the Day-1 update (nearly 1 GB).  Download speed is not bad so far.  The setup was a breeze except for snaking the power brick and cord around all the spaghetti behind my TV.  The thing would not fit behind the desk, and I had to feed the console end of the cord upward from the floor while reaching for it with my other (thankfully long) arm over the desk.  And hey!  The HDMI port on my TV works!  I've had it for years, and I didn't know for sure until today.

So far, so good.  Ooo!  New toy!  First one since the Wii a few years ago.  

[gpw11]

I'm kind of jealous.   I like buying new stuff too.   

[Quemaqua]

Buying new toys is the best. That little tingly feeling of giddiness while it's all still new ... if only it lasted forever!

[Cobra951]

Done with updates.  Now it's grabbing my 4 games (2 of them thanks to W7RE).  I'm looking into a solution for the Kinect distance.  From what I've read about use in small spaces, it looks like the best option is setting it up high, and have it look down at me.  I have these 2 high bookshelf units on both sides of the desk.  Hmm . . .  Time to get creative.

I didn't want this thing, but since it was in the box, now I'm curious.  It's heavy too.  I was surprised by how heavy the box was on my way out of the store, and the Kinect is a big part of it.

Edit:  Oh, hey look--a code for Dance Central Spotlight is in here too.  Hahaha!  Something else I wouldn't have bought in a million years.  Can't beat free, though.

[scottws]

I'm not sure why anyone would willingly invite the spyware that is the Kinect on the Xbox One inside their homes.

[gpw11]

Is it really that bad?  I haven't really followed it

[W7RE]

I have my Xbox One setup next to my computer desk, and I sit in my computer chair to play it. The Kinect is about 3 feet from my face. Gestures don't work at all. They used to sort of work sometimes, and other times pick me up when I didn't want it to. It hasn't picked up anything in at least a month now. I'm fine with all that, as I have no games that have gesture support worth using. I love having it just for the voice commands though.

By the way, the Games With Gold offerings have changed for November. Volgarr the Viking released as part of GWG, so you can grab that for free now too. (one of the Viva Pinata games is up on 360 right now)

[Cobra951]

Yeah, thanks.  I already grabbed Volgar, though I don't think I'm going to like it.  Viking I didn't see.  [Edit:  Oh, It's Volgarr the Viking.  Duh.]  I'll look again.  Chariot is good fun.  I'm enjoying that.  I'm not quite sure what to think about Crimson Dragon yet.  It might be more fun once I figure it all out.  The business of dragon feeding and evolving is all a mystery so far.

I've had a few more surprises.  The biggie is PC color space.  I'm guessing this is only available through HDMI, because I don't recall ever seeing it on the 360 (though I had heard about it).  What a night-and-day difference.  I thought my TV just didn't have the ability to resolve low-light scenes well, but selecting this completely changed the picture (literally).  It looks amazing now.  Many dark shades before reaching the deep black, and colors that pop off the screen.  

Then there's the suddenly installed games.  I made the mistake of queuing up Unity ahead of Black Flag, since I can't play it till it releases officially (on the 11th).  It was taking for-freaking-ever.  I thought something was wrong, but all the investigations under "Network" showed that all was well.  I resigned myself to just letting it stay in standby mode whenever I'm not using it, and let it take its sweet time.  This morning, I saw that it was still only like 36% installed.  Dammit!  I clicked on the Unity tile, and got the store page with the overview etc.  Then I went back, and tried to do the same with Black Flag.  Aaand the game launched!  WHOA!  IT'S HERE!  I guess the slowness is due to it dealing with all the queued items simultaneously (up to 5 at one point)?  I never saw a progress bar here.  No more complaints, though.  It sorted itself out nicely, and I don't care if Unity takes another week to come down the pipe (as long as other stuff can be installed in the meantime).

Black Flag looks so much better than on the 360.  Even the modern-day stuff, which looked like shit on the old box, looks rather good.  The better color space makes such a difference, the texture resolution is clearly much better, and there are quite a few added effects--cannon smoke, god rays from the sun, multi-layered water transparency and reflections, water puddles, foliage that moves with you, and not a hint of color banding anywhere.  I haven't seen any fog yet, but I'm hoping the PC volumetric fog made it to this version too.  Fog really looks like crap on the 360, to the point that I would often fast-travel to a sync viewpoint just to make it go away.  Fluttering sails would be nice too, but I'm a-ways off from being able to check those out.

I appreciate the feedback on the Kinect at close quarters.  I can get 5 feet between it and me, but not horizontally.  If it can deal with me from up above and to the left, I may find it useful.  I won't mess with that for a while yet, though.

Edit:  Oh cool!  If you press Menu (Start) on a queued item, you can tell it to Install Now, which floats it to the top of the queue.  That solves everything.

[W7RE]

Volgarr is tough. I've only been to the second level, and that took a lot of time and memorization. The game is fun, but not something I find myself wanting to really dig into as much as would be needed to make real progres. I can't comment on Crimson Dragon. Despite owning it since launch (won a copy on Twitter), and have yet to play it lol.

Yea I'm not sure what it does when you queue up so many things at once. The only time I've had more than one or two going was when I pre-ordered Sunset Overdrive digitally and it downloaded like 4-5 bonus items. I paused the game download to let the other ones finish, then resumed it. I usually download things overnight, so they're typically done by the time I wake up. Even the really big games, and my connection tops out at 1MB/sec.

[Cobra951]

The system is impressive, although much of what makes it so isn't strictly necessary for just gaming.  Still, I find it very appealing to be able to multitask between games running under the XOS and apps running under Windows 8.  (I didn't know what a hypervisor was.  I do now.)  I could play for a while, then jump out and do something like watch a DVD, then resume the game where I left it off.  Since I have it go on standby when I turn it off, I can resume from where I left off even the next day.  This presents an interesting new problem.  How do I really exit a game without forcing it by launching another game?  AC Black Flag occasionally will stop playing ambient and battle music out at sea, and the only thing that will bring it back is a reboot of the game from scratch.  (Quitting to the main menu and loading the save file will not fix this, or other sound bugs.)  This was a problem with the 360 version too, but at least there ending the running game was easy.  It's probably easy here too; I just need to discover the process.  (Launching another game works in the meantime.)

Web content (IE) runs so much better than on this old PC.  The only reason I'm back to the PC to type this is that I couldn't find the PS/2-USB adapter I know I have hidden away somewhere, so I could use an old spare keyboard on the Xbox.  I was looking at the win and fail threads there, a painfully slow activity here because of all the embedded youtube.  And youtube itself runs perfectly--so smooth.  I'm so used to a stuttery mess on the PC.  I usually will download the youtube videos I care about and watch them in VLC because of the crap youtube performance.  I may just buy a cheap new USB keyboard somewhere, rather than hunt down an adapter for a dinosaur.

The controller is awesome.  Improves on the 360's in almost every way (still getting used to the shoulder bumpers).  
The D-pad is way better--completely reliable as the 360's should have been, and leaves no doubt when a direction has been pressed.  The vibration of the triggers will take some getting used to.  After 8 years, the rumble on the 360 became 2nd nature, and I don't even think about it.  It just feels right.  Here, it doesn't.  Not yet.  Smaller motors (in the triggers) means higher vibrating frequency, and it feels more like a buzz than a rumble.  A bit weird at this early stage.  There's the more traditional rumble motors in the handles too, and that feels very right.  

Then there's the dual nature of the thing.  It's both wired and wireless, depending on whether it's connected via USB to the console.  If it is, the transmitter stops working.  All data goes through the cable.  Hardcore response with a wire, or casually laid back with a bit of lag.  I think it uses WiFi Direct, though I'm not sure.  What I do know is that it has much greater bandwidth than bluetooth, and latency is down to 9 ms (in wireless mode).  I've tried it both ways, and haven't been able to tell the difference, besides shutting itself off after a few minutes of inactivity when wireless.  I'm leaving it plugged in all the time now.  I hope that doesn't hurt the battery pack.  (Lithium-Ion--it shouldn't, right?)

The AC Black Flag version here has all the enhancements I was hoping for, and even a few I didn't know about, like the Jackdaw's deck getting awash when cutting through waves.  Rain and fog look so good now.  Foliage moves with you.  The water and wave detail is markedly better.  Sails flutter and wave in the wind.  All firearms make a cloud of smoke, and sometimes gets so thick during a sea battle that you can't see what's going on.  Trees have moss and other vegetation growth.  Good stuff.  The 30 fps is locked and consistent, and the control experience always smooth.  Only the full-screen map moves herky-jerkily around, which is ridiculous.  I guess no one thought this should be optimized.  It's just a 2D scrolling display, so WTF?  No new bugs at all, as far as I can tell.  No crashes at all.

A few more days before I can try out AC Unity.  That will hopefully be even more impressive than the cross-gen AC4.

I usually download things overnight, so they're typically done by the time I wake up. Even the really big games, and my connection tops out at 1MB/sec.

I do that a lot too.  But I was getting only like 512KB/sec bandwidth from my 2MB/sec line.  (It's supposed to be 20 mbps, or 2.5MB/sec, but it never goes past 2 for me on anything.)  After giving the console a static IP address and opening all the ports to it in the router, my NAT went from strict to open.  I tested the network, and now I'm getting 16 mbps (2MB/sec).  I haven't had the chance to see if that's really an improvement in real-world XBL downloads, though.  We'll see.  Sure hope so.

[W7RE]

How do I really exit a game without forcing it by launching another game?

Highlight the game, press "start", choose "quit".
With any game or app, when you hit that button, the top items pertain to the game/app you were hovering on, and the bottom half of that menu is system wide commands (settings, help, switch profile).

I may just buy a cheap new USB keyboard somewhere, rather than hunt down an adapter for a dinosaur.

I was thinking about picking up this $20 wireless keyboard just for my XB1: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C9W27RQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=20I3PPKP0S3XN&coliid=I5KLTIHF81IM&psc=1
Right now I'm just using an old PC keyboard I replaced not long ago. I've used a tenkeyless keyboard on my PC for years now though, so even this older one is smaller than most, but it's still corded.

I'm leaving it plugged in all the time now.  I hope that doesn't hurt the battery pack.  (Lithium-Ion--it shouldn't, right?)

I have no idea on that one. Though I plug mine into my PC and don't bother taking out the Eneloop rechargeables, and haven't had any issues.

I do that a lot too.  But I was getting only like 512KB/sec bandwidth from my 2MB/sec line.  (It's supposed to be 20 mbps, or 2.5MB/sec, but it never goes past 2 for me on anything.)  After giving the console a static IP address and opening all the ports to it in the router, my NAT went from strict to open.  I tested the network, and now I'm getting 16 mbps (2MB/sec).  I haven't had the chance to see if that's really an improvement in real-world XBL downloads, though.  We'll see.  Sure hope so.

I've had party issues, not sure about speed issues, if I don't forward ports. I give it a static IP and forward like 7 ports, the ones suggested on xbox.com.

[Cobra951]

I see the Quit option.  Thanks!  I still have so much to get used to.  Like Snap.  I get the idea, but I always get confused with it, and I end up not using it.

That KB looks good, except I'd be afraid to lose that itty bitty receiver, or drop it behind the desk.

While I was on the PC, the console went into standby (had it set for an hour of inactivity, now bumped to 6) and an update installed.  When it came back from the reboot, the light on the controller cable was amber, meaning charging.  So I'll guess that since charge leaks out of the batteries, leaving it plugged in all the time without it ever really going off isn't too great, because it will never sense that it needs to charge again.  I should unplug it now and then, or restart the system now and then.  (I did find that option.)

Oh, damn.  So all that mucking about with the router and portforward.com didn't really do much for download speed.  Eh.  I've confirmed the speed is there now.  Any slowness is at their end--not that I'd be happy about it.  But at least I'd know it's not my fault.

I deleted you a long while ago from my friends list, because I didn't know who Fleshfeast was.    Send me an invite sometime if you want to.  HypnoticCoqui (still sounds stupid to me, still refuse to pay for a change) is my gamertag.  I don't do much multiplayer, but at least I'll see what you're up to.

[W7RE]

I don't think there's an option to send an invite to someone, you can just follow them. Also, my name has a 1 in it: F1eshfeast, so careful you don't add the wrong person. It should show in your Activity Alerts that I added you. (Friends app, main screen, left side)

[Cobra951]

Looks like your gamercard in your sig is back too (they were gone earlier), so I can look at that too.  So no more invites.  Way out of touch here.

Edit:  That update I got last night turned out to be the November update.  Check out the new features.  That Restart Now option I mentioned is one of them.  I didn't realize that, but I did notice the marked improvements in browsing the store.  I now have Black Flag achievement art as my background.  Works very well, since it's mostly dark anyway, with the assassin in the middle.  I'll need to set up a USB stick with some personal photos to try out as well.  But why doesn't it let me use OneDrive photo albums for this?