Topic: Is it just me, or is the world moving backwards?

[scottws]

Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned to Death by Family

It's 2014, and 1) we are still stoning people and 2) free will is still a problem for some cultures.

Tea Party dominates Texas GOP Runoffs

I'm waiting for the Salem Witch Trials Redux.  It seems bound to happen at this point.

Wyoming Rejects Science Standards, Won't Teach Man-Made Climate Change
Creationists on Texas Panel for Biology Textbooks

It's 2014, and we are rejecting science.  This after America's period of massive prosperity mostly brought on by investment in and use of science.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  After all, America's oligarchs are making laws, regulations, and policies that are shrinking the middle class even though America is an economic beacon of light entirely because of its middle class.  Note to rich dudes:  who is going to buy your stuff when people don't have disposable incomes any more?

[Cobra951]

The use of religion as political power is on the rise, and that is indeed going backward.  One story goes that the ancient Greeks would have developed technology, but the mystics--the equivalent of modern-day zealots and fanatics--nipped that in the bud.  They were numerous and powerful, as they are in certain countries in the Middle East today.  And Greece ended up falling to Rome, becoming their enslaved education and cultural center.  The Roman gods are renamed Greek gods.

Mysticism, aka religion, can't produce weapons, medicine, or any other understanding of the physical world.  Yet because of ignorance and fear among the populace, it can grow to displace that which gives humanity an upper hand in the real world.  It grows like a cancer among the disaffected, and is seized by power-hungry opportunists as their rallying cry.  (Talking about such things always reminds me of Ignorance and Want, the two children under the robes of the ghost of Christmas present.  They spell our doom.)

The push of Creationism, a philosophy clearly rooted in Christian religion, to displace Evolution, a truly scientific theory, is the most troubling evidence of such backward-driving tendencies in this country.  The only effective weapon against it is education, beginning with why faith-based theories are not, and can never become, science.  Science demands the absence of belief--the very opposite of religion.  But in a culture where the smartest are ridiculed and the dumbest thugs rule the schoolyard, I am not optimistic about education at all.

[idolminds]

[gpw11]

The use of religion as political power is on the rise, and that is indeed going backward.  One story goes that the ancient Greeks would have developed technology, but the mystics--the equivalent of modern-day zealots and fanatics--nipped that in the bud.  They were numerous and powerful, as they are in certain countries in the Middle East today.  And Greece ended up falling to Rome, becoming their enslaved education and cultural center.  The Roman gods are renamed Greek gods.

Socrates' and Plato held a particular disdain for democracy for this reason.  They were of the opinion that the rabble could easily be convinced to make the worst decisions for mankind.   

[Xessive]

Socrates' and Plato held a particular disdain for democracy for this reason.  They were of the opinion that the rabble could easily be convinced to make the worst decisions for mankind.   

Ditto. Democracy is not for everyone. There are too many dependencies and variables which must be met for democracy to function effectively.

As it is today, democracy functions under many assumptions that all of the voters are educated and well-informed, the nominees are equally campaigned, and that the people counting the votes are honest.

[Cools!]

Unfortunately in recent times we have slowly been brainwashed to believe that democracy is about picking candidates based on a few core ideologies and not based on actual representation. For example, you are either pro-life or pro-choice, pro-gun or not, religious or not, democrat or republican, etc. You are supposed to pick the candidate that shares a particular set of values with you and that's about it. Of course, none of these choices imply that the person you are voting for actually is a good leader and that they will represent you appropriately.

Furthermore, the assumption is that we shouldn't complain about the faults in our system because we are still better off than most people in other parts of the world. As in: we shouldn't strive to improve ourselves just because we are already at the top. So you think our system sucks? Well you must prefer [insert something worse here]! We are told that we have power, yet we are stuck with 2 or 3 virtually identical candidates that all promise to change things, yet rarely have any concrete plans in place during elections. We are sort of supposed to believe that just because they believe in a certain social or economical system that they will figure things out once in office. There is no ability for us to vote for "nobody" and thereby force the current parties to re-examine their platforms or force the formation of alternatives. Then there's the lack of any accountability: we just assume that most of the things politicians say won't be done, yet we vote for them based on those promises.

Oh boy...

[ren]

I wouldn't say the world, just a select few regions.

[Pugnate]

I think the world is moving forward. These ignorant people have always existed and are perhaps less now. The difference is that they are now being highlighted by the media.

[K-man]

What Pug said.

Also, I believe we're finally getting to the point to where people are brave enough/it's safe enough to call bullshit on religious institutions.  At least here in the states.  Fundamentals are consistently making themselves look very ignorant.  Personally I don't care about anyone's personal beliefs as long as it doesn't interfere with positive progress.  Be it social, scientific, or whatever. 

One thing that worries me is the movement of turning the word "science" into a four letter word.  The flip side is that by doing so science has been thrust into the mainstream again.  It's nice we have people like Tyson and Nye, who despite not being "scientists" by definition are at the very least great spokespeople and champions of the cause.  Nye manages to stay level-headed, and Tyson has no qualms about being matter-of-fact about things.

[Cobra951]

To focus on the financial part of this "moving backward":

The Major Results of This Study

What are the major conclusions to which these novel historical sources have led me? The first is that one should be wary of any economic determinism in regard to inequalities of wealth and income. The history of the distribution of wealth has always been deeply political, and it cannot be reduced to purely economic mechanisms. In particular, the reduction of inequality that took place in most developed countries between 1910 and 1950 was above all a consequence of war and of policies adopted to cope with the shocks of war. Similarly, the resurgence of inequality after 1980 is due largely to the political shifts of the past several decades, especially in regard to taxation and finance [emphasis mine]. The history of inequality is shaped by the way economic, social, and political actors view what is just and what is not, as well as by the relative power of those actors and the collective choices that result. It is the joint product of all relevant actors combined.
 
The second conclusion, which is the heart of the book, is that the dynamics of wealth distribution reveal powerful mechanisms pushing alternately toward convergence and divergence. Furthermore, there is no natural, spontaneous process to prevent destabilizing, inegalitarian forces from prevailing permanently [emphasis mine].

Capital in the Twenty-First Century - Thomas Piketty

In my interpretation, whether the rich continue to get richer until we live in another gilded age (we may be there already), or whether we return to a strong middle class like we had in the 1960s, is more a matter of who is in power than of unconscious factors such as market forces.  Imagine my surprise.  I've only been preaching this for about 20 years, though admittedly, I had no research under my belt to back up my feelings on the matter.  But he does.  It's quite a lot to plod through, but I'm determined to get through this important new book.

[scottws]

Cobra, how did that book turn out?  Do you recommend it?

[Pugnate]

It wasn't just you.

[ender]

I think the world is moving forward. These ignorant people have always existed and are perhaps less now. The difference is that they are now being highlighted by the media.

Fast forward to 2019... whoops! Hope your statement rings true again one day, Pug

[Pugnate]

Haha I had no idea Trump was coming.

[K-man]

Oh those halcyon days...

[Pugnate]

haha

[scottws]

😂

[Pugnate]

In light of the current situation, this thread title seems even more relevant.

[ender]

Fast forward to 2019... whoops! Hope your statement rings true again one day, Pug

Goddamn it.

[Pugnate]

The United States is one step closer to becoming United States'istan.

Never thought I'd see such blatant corruption and right-wing extremism in the USA. Black people being gunned down by father-son racist teams, doctors and nurses being attacked. Crazy stuff.

[ren]

It is absolutely insane. As much as I dislike Trump, a part of me hopes he wins in 2020 so we don't have to face him losing and refusing to step down. Just writing that feels over-the-top but at the same time this impossible scenario seems to feel more and more plausible.

[Quemaqua]

I've never been "into" politics, though I spend more and more of my adult life thinking about it and discussing it, but at this point I'm finding myself resentful about having to stay here. If it wasn't for my fiancee, I would be looking at leaving for sure, but that's not something she wants to do.

[scottws]

I've looked for jobs in New Zealand quite a few times.

[Pugnate]

It is absolutely insane. As much as I dislike Trump, a part of me hopes he wins in 2020 so we don't have to face him losing and refusing to step down. Just writing that feels over-the-top but at the same time this impossible scenario seems to feel more and more plausible.

Ha! So he did lose and refuse to step down.

[ren]

Ha! So he did lose and refuse to step down.

And happily, for the most part everyone ignored him and moved on. I was expecting it to be a much bigger deal than it turned out to be.

[scottws]

I find myself wondering: what is going to be the straw that makes me take action on emigrating from the U.S. I've been considering it ever since this country decided to elect Donald Trump and failed to convict him in the Senate after his coup attempt. Now we have the Supreme Court weilding a battle axe and absolutely changing the paradigm we've been accustomed to got a generation or more and it looks like they have their sights on more.

Things are not going well here, and it does not look like they will improve any time soon.

[Pugnate]

Scottws, not even exaggerating, but I can count at least 100 people I know on Facebook (friends or friends of friends) who have immigrated to Canada or are applying for immigration over the last few years. They are mostly parents sickened by the inaction on school shootings. The abortion thing has also triggered people. But a new storm is brewing. Apparently, the Supreme Court is hearing a case that would allow States to manipulate elections more easily:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/30/us-supreme-court-state-elections-legislatures?fbclid=IwAR1CoJlA6TFqc-cIi1ZVLD76ivISICYhpszG2b2M8Pv1dmoqXOmIbW7t0nk

Hit me up if you need any tips for immigration to Canada. Express Entry makes the process faster. You can also enter some details on the Canadian government website to see if you'd qualify.

Things aren't perfect here either. The so called Canadian Freedom Convoy has been leading the braindead conservatives. They held an illegal occupation in Ottawa, with some waving Nazi flags etc. Their organizers openly believe in the White Supremacy theory. The Canadian Progressive Conservative Party, which traditionally has been quite sensible, is getting desperate after losing election after election to the Liberals. They're swinging dangerously right, with their leading candidate, Pierre Poilievre aligning himself with the Freedom Convoy. Pierre Poilievre is a dolt though, wanting to turn Canada into a crypto-nation. He backed down after the crypto crash.

More bad news is that we've had random acts of violence across Ontario. Some of it is down to mental health issues from the pandemic. Other is airheads reading far-right crap online and attacking minorities. A Muslim family of five was run down last year. Just now, a man was arrested for a hate crime after setting a woman on fire on a bus. After the Texas shooting, copycats showed up across Ontario. One was killed by police.

The light in all of this is that Canada's strict gun laws mean that these people are only armed with knives or BB guns. There are no mass shootings.

Additionally, while the Freedom Convoy and the PCs are worrying sane Canadians, overall, this country votes overwhelmingly liberal or central. For example, we have multiple left-leaning parties here like the Liberals, New Democrats, and the Green Party. Their votes combined far outweigh the conservative vote. Even Ontario's Premier, Doug Ford, although from the Conservative party, has central polices.

Tldr; Canada has problems, but it might still be worth moving here. On the downside, an exodus of sane people from the United States will exacerbate problems.

[Quemaqua]

My wife and I have been looking at Canada (primarily because we know some folks and work opportunities would come more easily for my wife), but Germany has also been a major consideration. Still looking at things. Germany would be a lot more possible if it weren't for my dog. She's a pit bull and they have breed-specific legislation over there. It's bullshit, but probably not much we can do to circumvent it.

[ren]

Come join us. Pug and I hang out all the time.

[Pugnate]

My wife and I have been looking at Canada (primarily because we know some folks and work opportunities would come more easily for my wife), but Germany has also been a major consideration. Still looking at things. Germany would be a lot more possible if it weren't for my dog. She's a pit bull and they have breed-specific legislation over there. It's bullshit, but probably not much we can do to circumvent it.

Que, hit me up anytime on Facebook if you need advice.
I think Ontario also had pitbull laws, but they were reversed.

[Pugnate]

Come join us. Pug and I hang out all the time.

Add me back on Facebook, you 16-year-old bastard.

[ren]

Facebook? How old do you think I am?

Although I do still have Facebook Messenger and I see you in my friends list so apparently I must have added you somewhere along the line