Topic: Shadow of Mordor - Update: Lith on its development challenges (Reply 33)

[MysterD]

If you haven't heard...
PC version of Middle-Earth: Shadows of Mordor wants 6GB of VRAM if you want to run it at Ultra settings

Yes, that's right - most high-end cards on the market right now are 4GB.
Most people probably don't have 4GB of VRAM yet.

Pretty much., NVidia's expensive Titan-card (around $1000) ships w/ 6GB.

If you look at the pic of the settings you need this VRAM for each setting:
1 GB = Low
2 GB = Medium
3 GB = High
6 GB = Ultra

[MysterD]

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[Xessive]

Well, there is actually a Nvidia GTX 880 with 8GB VRAM.

Also keep in mind that the high VRAM requirement can be achieved via SLI or Crossfire.

Even though it's a ridiculously high requirement, it's important to note that it is pretty much for the graphics enthusiasts only. The PS4 version visual equivalent of the PC settings is likely somewhere in the Medium-High range.

[MysterD]

Eurogamer -> All about the Ultra-HD texture pack that wants 6GB of VRAM - how to get it, what graphics cards will work with it, and what to do if your hardware falls short.

[Xessive]

I have the Nvidia 780M 4GB VRAM hard-built into my gaming laptop (Asus G750). I got the HD pack. Tested the game out on ULTRA settings @ 1080p, I'm averaging 42-45 fps, which is perfectly acceptable considering the ridiculous settings, including ambient occlusion. If I drop the settings to Very High, I average around 56 fps.

With nearly 40 characters onscreen the frames never dropped below 38 fps. Combat was still fluid and the game was completely responsive.

The game is totally playable on Ultra settings. If I really want to crank up the frames I can either drop the features (down to High or Medium) or I could just drop the resolution to 720p, which will make it soar at the cost of the 1080p visual definition, though considering how far I'm sitting from my screen is not a big loss.

I think the recommended settings are assumed to maintain over 60 fps @ 1080p.

[PyroMenace]

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I have been waiting weeks in sheer gut wrenching anticipation for what this could be... please help...

*Pyro drops into a fetal position and cries softly to himself*

[MysterD]

I have been waiting weeks in sheer gut wrenching anticipation for what this could be... please help...

*Pyro drops into a fetal position and cries softly to himself*

Depends on how far + long this thread actually goes.
And how many links w/ stories and info about the game.

[PyroMenace]

[MysterD]

Here's a possible + likely scenario.

I move Post #1 (original) to Post #2.
I take my usual format of links w/ updates and make that post #1.

This thread ain't got big enough really or got enough happening, for me to do so yet.

[Cobra951]

This game seems to be freaking awesome.  I've only played for a couple of hours, though.  I got a Soul Reaver vibe at first, but that got quickly replaced with a lot of Assassin's Creed deja vu.  It's half price for Black Friday (Xbox, at least), which is why I got it, after reading so much good press on it.

[Quemaqua]

I really wanted this until I actually watched someone play it. It's stupidly easy, and very much way-too-Asscreed. It has some stellar ideas, like the nemesis system, but unfortunately I can tell I would do nothing but walk all over this game. It's kept me from buying it even on a deal. When I first heard about it and saw some footage I was pretty excited, even despite the movie-Tolkein setting ... it really does look awesome. Sadly, the game appears to be super short, another "hold X to win" type game, and just without any real difficulty to speak of. I saw a guy like almost right at the start of the game walk into a fortress full of bad guys and proceed to slaughter like 40 or something without even getting hit, and that appears to be quite common, not just something that only the uber-elite players achieve. I'm kinda hoping that at some point they patch in an ultra-hard difficulty or something. Then I'd jump in just to fiddle with that nemesis system. A shame the core game is so short.

[Cobra951]

Thanks.  I always appreciate your negative input.  It so heightens my enjoyment of what I just got.  So timely too, right after I bought it.  I guess I'll go alert the universally positive reviewers that they dropped the ball.

Edit:

There is no question Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor is a punishing experience right from the get go. You will die and die a lot. It isn’t quite as punishing as say Dark Souls, but within minutes of venturing out towards your first mission, you will be quickly surrounded by Orcs (called Uruk’s in the game) and it isn’t long before one of them plunges a sword right through your skull.

I have to admit I wasn’t impressed in the early going. I mean the cellophane wrapper was barely off the box when Shadow of Mordor promptly decided to kick my ass. It was unforgiving and almost rage inducing, but it did get better. After about an hour or so I managed to progress my character with a few upgrades and a few additional combat moves. Eventually I started slaying Orcs Batman Arkham City style. It was fluid, fun and super addictive. I was literally running (or stealth running) around from area to area looking for trouble. For hours I would abandon the games main mission in search of Orcs and Orc Captains to slay. The more enemies I demolished the stronger I became and ultimately the more enjoyable the Shadow of Mordor experience started to be. As you become more powerful don’t expect to go through Mordor unscathed. You will continue getting your arse handed to you but in Mordor death means something and has significant implications in the game.

Death in Shadow of Mordor isn’t like dying in most open world games. Whenever you meet your brutal demise to a gnarly looking Orc, that Orc then powers up and gets promoted within his Orc army hierarchy. So not only do you power up in the game, so do your enemies. Shadow of Mordor calls this the Nemesis system. It is this little dynamic that makes Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor stands out from all those other free roaming games. It’s innovative and something you just don’t see in console open world games.

http://canadianonlinegamers.com/review/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-xbox-one-review-no-loot-cave-no-problem/

This was my experience too, in the early going.  Seeing grunts gain power and promote to captains left me with a sinking feeling, and motivated me to be a lot more careful, and work on ramping up my own skills and attributes.

I get it that the Lost Souls elite crowd will look down the end of their nose at the rest of us mere mortals.  Does it need to get rubbed in with every game?

[gpw11]

This is a game I'd like to play but my PC is too old and apparently the 360/PS3 versions pale in comparison to the "next gen"  I guess I'll just have to wait.

[Cobra951]

This is a game I'd like to play but my PC is too old and apparently the 360/PS3 versions pale in comparison to the "next gen"  I guess I'll just have to wait.

I'm playing it on the Xbox One, not the 360.  I didn't think it was out on the last gen.

[gpw11]

Yeah, I figured you were playing this on the Xbox One.  Honestly, if I had a next gen console I'd probably have this game.

[Xessive]

I love it. I hope it's the first in a series.

The combat is identical to the Batman Arkham games. Rumour has it the reason is because it was originally being developed as an Arkham game then WB switched the project over to another team (that game later became Arkham Origins) and Monolith salvaged what they could and created ME: Shadow of Mordor.

The combat is a blast. Even if it is relatively easy because of my familiarity with the Batman games it's still a lot of fun.

[Quemaqua]

Dude, what the fuck? I express my opinion and get lambasted for it? Am I not allowed to chime in?

I apologize if it seemed like I was trolling ... I guess rereading my comment it does seem overly negative. Just wanted to relate my experience of being excited about the game and then ultimately avoiding it, it has nothing to do with your experience or what you want out of it. I have no doubt you'll love this one, it seems right up your alley, but it seemed like it was probably not for me for the reasons stated. I watched a lot of streams to come to that conclusion, which I usually don't do ... but I wanted so much to like this one, I had to know if I thought I could get into it. After enough observation, I made a judgment call.

Plenty of reviewers have also listed these negatives for Shadow, so it's not all glowing praise, but regardless, who cares what they think? X loves it. Idol and I talked about the seeming pros and cons of it. Scary totally loved it and talked it up a ton in IRC. I said all the same shit there, too, but instead of getting ripped a new asshole for having an opinion, we had this thing called a friendly discussion. I don't look down on him or you or anybody for liking it, was just offering the other side of the coin. I want a game where I'm rewarded for doing well by getting an increasing challenge, where I get to see the game's AI get crazier and more powerful. I like to watch the stakes get higher, you know? The nemesis system, while I absolutely adore the idea, seems to kind of do the opposite. The better you do, the less chance these guys have to get big and awesome. If you aren't so great at the game and die a ton (and believe me, I've seen that opinion expressed as well, and I don't fault those people for it), you kind of get hammered because the AI keeps getting tougher. Just seems like this could be better balanced, and that kept me away from the game, as it did others. If someone else was to read just the positive, they might go in and be disappointed, so I'm offering another perspective.

I am not an elitist and I don't know why you see me that way. I don't need or even want every game to be Dark Souls, nor do I have any expectations of what other people should want. One of my favorite games of all time is Okami, which is also one of the least-challenging games I've ever played. So if I was a little too short or negative here, then fair enough, and I apologize if it seemed like I was trying to do any parade-raining, but I don't think I need to be met with quite this kind of resistance just for having a dissenting opinion. You can like games I don't like. I can like games you don't like. Discussion about why we do or don't like them is what leads to interesting debate and the understanding of another's way of thinking. This is what enjoying art together is supposed to be! It doesn't have to be about changing the way we think. I don't defend Dark Souls because I think everyone should like it, but because I want them to understand what's special about it, even if it's not the game for them. And with circumstances like this or Lords of the Fallen, say, I have had interest in them, I have watched them and been curious, and even excited ... but ultimately I didn't bite. So I try to add to the discussion by saying why. It doesn't mean I expect others to feel the same. You're playing this particular game actively, so if you see it as totally different from what I've posted here, say so and explain why. Discuss the game. Don't just call me a shithead for seeing red flags and deciding maybe I'd be better off not risking my money.

[Xessive]

This is a positive space for all of us to express our opinions, observations, and shared advice.

Reading again I realize my opinion was not especially constructive I just really like it! haha!

That's not to say the game has no room for improvement, there's a lot they can do for a sequel or parallel title. The story, for one, is an area I think they could have done better.

But yeah.. So.. Not to make things awkward, I think Que and Cobra need to hash it out all civilized-like Preferably concluding with firm, amicable hand-shakes. Maybe even hugs? No, that's wishful thinking

[Quemaqua]

I'm a hippy. Hugs are always great. I have hugs for you, Cobra! I love you, man! Even if I am a negative jerk.

Also, for the record, I sort of hope this becomes a franchise too. Like I said, I love the concept ... I want to see them do more with it. And if this really was strongly based as another game first, imagine what they could do if they got to invest in the whole idea up front. I'd love to see that.

[Cobra951]

Dude, what the fuck? . . .

Exactly my dumbstruck reaction after reading your first post.

*Sigh*

OK, you're right.  I'm sorry.  Some bourbon is behind the lack of filter in my response, but I'm not hiding behind it.  The sarcasm was uncalled for.  But it did feel like you smacked me upside the head for being dumb enough to buy this game.  I should have waited a while before replying.  I didn't wait one second.  Yeah, booze.  Whatever.  I am sorry.  You are my friend, and I owe you a lot.  (I hope you remember why.)

There is always someone who can take something that twists most of us into knots, and make it seem like child's play.  Youtube is filled with examples.  If we were to decide what is challenging enough based on those, we'd give up in frustration.  I assure you that you cannot hold down a button on a turbo controller and win this game.  I quoted that Canadian review as counterpoint to what you said, and I can back it up with personal experience.  The combat I think is terrific.  You need to respond in varying ways, and the controls actually let you!  (Learn, Ass-Creed Ubisoft.)  Everything is responsive immediately.  The smarts know that blocking a sword about to take your head off from behind takes priority over your attempt at executing the downed guy in front of you.  There is no fumbling, or getting stuck in animations.  As a result, there is no need to dumb down crowd attacks by having them queue up as in AC.  Nobody stands still and watches you fight one guy.  They will rip you apart as a group if you let them.  And if you do let them, you suffer tangible consequences, because your enemies gain power on the spot, power you must then face later.  Retreat is an option (again unlike AC, which locks you into fight mode, and makes it an exercise in frustration to step out of it).  How does the saying go?  "Prudence is the better part of valor."  I do like my character's fleet feet.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, I mean I obviously don't have first-hand experience, but I've talked to enough people who've played the game that I think I can safely say it's easier than I'd want it to be. Now most of them still really liked it, even after that qualifier (Scary felt the game was quite easy, but he's wild about it for everything else it offers), and so again, I don't mean to suggest that this is a bad game, only that I suspect it won't offer quite what I want out of it. It does look good, and I don't think the combat is "bad", either. It looks very elegant, fluid, and polished, and a lot of fun. But at the same time, I sort of don't like that combat style that much, not because it's bad but because it doesn't tend to have lasting appeal for me. Like I have a lot of fun out of the gate but then eventually get a bit bored. Like I adored the first Batman (Arkham Asylum), and was so excited about Arkham City ... but I dunno, by that point I guess it had grown stale for me and when I finally picked up the second game I found I couldn't get into it. I will say that Shadow of Mordor looks way better than that, and the upgrade trees and everything look fun and interesting, though.

Honestly, I'm not down on the game, and my earlier post does seem like I am. I see why you got angry. I wasn't thinking about how YOU would feel when I made that post ... was just posting a probably too-brief account of why I never picked it up (and it did seem arrogant ... I don't mean to imply I'm some combat god, just that I've talked to people about it and watched gameplay and felt it wasn't quite what I wanted because of the combat style).

It really comes down to that when I pass on a game now, that's more the norm. I don't have time for leisure all that much anymore. Gaming has been something I've had to make special time for for several years now, and at this point since I'm back heavily on the language-learning path following getting my AA and thinking about potentially heading to a university on the west coast when we move, basically the only games I play are import games so that I can get language practice. I was actually surprised that Shadow of Mordor does have a Japanese localization, and that's tempted me to pick it up just to play around with it if I can get it cheap enough. But so far it hasn't been cheap enough, and probably won't be for a while (plus the localization is limited to menus and subtitles, which is a drag ... most of the other languages got full voice as well). So it's really more of just a judgment call. It's not so perfectly up my alley that I'm willing to "waste time" (obviously not a waste ... I guess I mean "make a special time exception for") and play it in English, and I've got enough else to keep me busy right now in my preferred gaming language.

I'm still curious what you think as you play more, though. I've been picking everybody's brains about it for a while despite the fact that I've already judged it as a game I'm not ready to buy.

[gpw11]

I've put like maybe 3-4 hours in and the game is pretty amazing.  At it's core it's just a an Assassin's Creed clone in an amazing setting, with much better combat, and more streamlined navigatin....wait, it's just a better game all around (save for the awesome giant waves in AC4).  The combat is a lot like a  the Arkham games, which is interesting because it feels different but I can't really say why.  It is fluid and definitely more entertaining than one would think.  Perhaps the most interesting is that I've gotten myself into situations where it seems like I'm fighting 40 guys and get my ass kicked brutally, but try again and just squeeze through - as simplistic as it seems, the combat is completely reliant on your abilities.  It's not just knowing combos - it's all about strategy and (somewhat) reaction time, which makes it really fun to me.

But really, lets not fuck around here, the reason this game gets so much praise is the Rival system.  I didn't get the hubub about it before because it sounded, well, not that exciting, but it does a lot to bring you into the world.

Also, I die a lot. It's not easy and carelessness will cost you.

[Cobra951]

I'll be getting back to this eventually.  Other games pulled me away (AC Unity, Borderlands TPS, and now Dragon Age: Inquisition--timesinks galore).  The mechanics are terrific, notably the fluid combat.  I talked about that already in my last post.  You seem to be having a similarly good experience.  I managed not to die a lot (just enough to worry about the Nemesis consequences).

Running good on your new toy?

[gpw11]

Runs great, actually.   I'm not completely maxed out on the graphical options but am on pretty much everything except draw distance (I don't think this would be a problem, I just didn't actually change it) and textures.   I'm actually on High for textures, which they don't recommend for 2gb cards but still pushing over 60fps easy on 1680x1050 (the resolution could be the reason).

[gpw11]

This might be my new favorite game.

The Saga of Krosh the Shadow.   

Krosh was just a normal dude living a normal orc life until I came across his path.  Just a lowly orc defender wanting to get by without drawing too much attention to himself, he was unwillingly thrust into the spotlight when I invaded his stronghold in a quest to assassinate his captain - I had no beef with the captain himself, but I had a huge beef with the
War Chief he was sworn to and wanted to eliminate all the War Chief's support so I could try to fight him one on one.   This may have been a mistake.

I was impatient, wreckless. I didn't survey my surroundings nearly as well as I should have.  I don't even remember the name of the captain I was after but, looking back at it, he was my real undoing.  He was holding court, entertaining three or four other orcs by the fire - Krosh possibly amongst them, but I didn't care.   I didn't even take advantage of the fire itself to launch my attack - I just went in sword swinging - I was cocky...I was dumb. 

The fight should have been easy but another captain happened to walk around the corner just as I was attacking, combined with the fact that one of the two had the ability to poison me, the tide turned quickly.   The third captain stumbling into the fray was too much - I had to run.   I executed the orc to my left, smashed my ethereal fist to the ground to clear a few feet around me and made a break for it, I slashed out at the green bodies in my way and executed one sorry orc that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.   I leapt to jump over one defender and ....he smashed me down to the ground with his shield.  He seemed just as stunned as I was - and then he ran me through with his spear.  I had one last chance - I just needed to move the stick a certain way and press the right button .....NO!  FUCK!  I pressed the wrong one for some stupid fucking reason.

And thus, the legend of Krosh was Born.  Word spread through the ranks - Some lowly defender just did what three combined orc captains couldn't. He was quickly promoted to captain himself.   Fuck this guy for capitalizing on my misfortune.  I hunted down the nearest orc I thought would have useful information and got him to tell me all he knew about this Krosh.  Oh, he's over in that area now.  Also, something about not liking viscous wild caragors.  Good information to know.

I tracked him down once again - scanned the area for other captains this time - I wanted this to be a one on one fight.  There were still some orc foot soldiers around but who cares, I had a plan for them.

When I feel the time is right I fire an arrow at a somewhat close caragor cage and jump down into the courtyard with Krosh and a handful of other orcs.  As I land Krosh yells at one orc to set off the beacon and call for reinforcements.   I should have ignored him, but I didn't - I chased him and I took his life.  Success, but precious seconds lost.  I turned to face Krosh and noticed that the caragor was nowhere to be seen but a quick check of my mini map tells me he is just off screen, hunting down a few more hapless green bastards.  I want to draw his attention, I need to make Krosh piss himself before I take his life from him.  That's where my backup plan came in.

Above me, strung up on a line spanning the grand courtyard, is a sac of meat so vile that no man could stomach it.  A caragor however, would kill for it -- and that's exactly what I was counting on.  I fired an arrow up on high and severed the bag, spilling the meat into the court yard in an attempt to attract my unwitting caragor ally. I just made one error in judgement.  One terrible and fatal mistake.

You see, caragor bait not only attracts the attention of nearby caragors, it also attracts the attention of wild caragors.   So, all of a sudden there are two deadly whirwinds of bestial claws and fangs in the courtyards, a handful of orcs that don't stand a chance, Krosh - who I've lost track of, and me.  You can't counter or parry caragor attacks - you can only dodge.   I use all my arrows quickly, slaying the first beast.  The second is more troublesome but I manage with a fair amount of life left.  What a waste, Krosh is probably long gone - captains that are scared of caragors tend to turn heel and run at site of them, lowering their offence and defense, but I was too occupied to track which way he went and he was probably far enough away that I'd have to enlsit the aid of another loose in the tongue orc to find him.

Or maybe not.  Maybe that's him right there- bright red, unleashing a terrible battle cry and coming right at me with a red outline and a look of fury in his eyes.  The fuck?  I think back to the exact words my "informant" used.  Krosh isn't AFRAID of caragores....he's ENRAGED by them.  He's now in a fury with higher than normal stats and I'm at a quarter health. 
His shield blocks many of my attacks, I can't vault over him, and I cant counter his spear, only dodge it.   I do have options, but I panic a bit and he kills me, once again running me through with his spear as arrows  and hand axes fall upon me.

The next attempt was no better.  Again in a hasty quest for justice I ignored surrounding captains and attacked, figuring I could use the orcs around Krosh to power up my chain combo and use my execution moves on him.  Again I got caught up in a fight with multiple captains, and again I died.  Although it was not directly by Krosh's hand this time, he still gained from it as he survived my assault -- he was becoming a legend.   

I became sidetracked fore a while - maybe intentionally.  I eliminated another warchief, did some sidequests, and all the while Krosh was doing his own. Through trickery, respect of those around him, and strength, Krosh cut through the ranks just as I cut through his brethren.  He hosted a feast, gained power.  Ambushed a rival, gained power.  Eventually he moved up a tier or two.  He was now an elite captain, only below the War Chiefs themselves.

The next time I ran into him, he actually ran into me.  And he killed me, bad. I was already on the run and tried to jump over him - time had caused me to forget his resistance to being vaulted over - and just like the first time we crossed paths he pushed me back and cut me down.  I died but through the grace of god used my last chance to parry the killing blow and successfully came back only to find that he had new moves and  resistances to some of mine.  He won the battle that day.

I believe that was the last he won.  I hunted him down, older now, smarter, a veteran of this guerrilla war.   I located him, eliminated all the captains in the area around him.  I killed his archers, tamed the catagors in the area so they couldn't be turned against me and took advantage of his main fear - fire.   I crept through the shadows, killing the majority of the surrounding orcs in the area one by one.  He didn't yet catch on and I made my move.  As he passed by a camp fire, not even pausing to think where those who started it may gone, I fired an arrow into the embers, igniting all around - including Krosh.   He tried to run, but an arrow strategically placed through his foot into the ground ruined that plan and sealed his fate.

I rounded him, slashed at him from behind, jabbing my dagger into his sides when he fell and assaulting his back with my sword as he stood - foot still holding him in place.  Eventually I stabbed him through the head and claimed my long-sought victory.

Or so I thought until next I crossed him, one eye now completely blood shot, the other behind a steel plate fashioned into a makeshift eye patch.  The saga of Krosh the Shadow continued for perhaps two more battles.  The last time I came across him, his face was covered almost entirely and there were scars across his shoulders- he was now nothing more than a tortured shadow hell bent on killing me just as I was him before I had gotten my revenge. He, however, never got the revenge he was looking for.

I don't know if he got weaker, I got stronger, or I just got better, but  - either through skill or luck - I now have Krosh's head.  I saw it roll across the battlefield and I know he can't haunt me anymore.  It's now time to move on to other matters at hand.  Like killing those Warchiefs.

Except Dush the Rash.  We don't kill Dush - We fucking run from Dush - I've seen his list of stregths and weaknesses and I don't even think he CAN be killed.   

[Cobra951]

Wow . . .  You need to get that edited and published. 

[gpw11]

Ha, thanks - I um really like this game.  It's amazing how well put together it is.  I originally said something about it being like a cross between AC and Batman, but it does both of those games better than they do themselves and it has a whole lot more going for it as well. 

[Quemaqua]

So this finally got cheap enough on a sale for me to get it. GOTY edition, I think it was $15? Or $17. So I bit, because I've really wanted to try it out for myself.

It's a very cool game. After a few hours, I jokingly said to myself that this was the best Assassin's Creed game I've played, but really, this is basically what I would want from an Assassin's Creed game that I don't generally get from those. It focuses on the right things for me, and has a really nice immediacy that gets you back into doing the fun stuff as quickly as possible.

And the PC port is super solid. Runs really well (though I guess everything on this new rig kind of does), looks really nice. I'm happy with it.

So yeah, I've given it about 10 hours, and I've had a lot of fun. It works for me especially well right now because I have other games to play when I get bored with it, which happens frequently after a few hours. The game does what it does extremely well. Great control, the best combat I've seen in this type of game, and as they start throwing new enemy types at you, it does get a bit more interesting and difficult, at least once you've got several captains in the mix.

But that said, it's all pretty samey, much like the games from which it takes its inspiration. The difference is of course the captains and the whole Nemesis system thing, which totally works as well as advertised. It's tons of fun to see guys come back and talk shit at you about how you killed them, or how they killed you. Since dudes don't always die for good, that totally makes the game, having that rivalry that springs up and can be ongoing for a while. I love too that you get to avenge your friends list. I killed 3 guys that had apparently taken out Xessive and Scarytooth a couple of times. That was pretty fun. It's a shame I'm coming into this so late so that nobody will be getting revenge for me (does anyone know if that actually does anything, or is it just a fun inclusion?).

My experience hasn't been entirely dissimilar to GPW's above story (which was great, by the way ... I must have missed that when you first posted it). The only problem is that my earlier fears were confirmed: it's way too easy. I so wish this game had a difficulty slider, it would help so much. I decided to do what I saw people on streams do when I first watched it, and right out of the gate went into a stronghold to just cause as much trouble as possible. I racked up a 150+ hit streak and murdered a shitload of orcs without breaking a sweat. This isn't just because I'm super good or something, like I'm not trying to say I'm great. It's really just that the combat system is so capable. I do frequently mis-target my hit-meter executions and drains for some reason, attacking the wrong dude a lot of the time, but beyond that stuff, I never feel out of control or anything. Whatever I want to do, the game is good about responding and letting me do it. It's tight, responsive. and powerful.

But yeah, no single captain or warchief has proved a challenge, which is disappointing. But I guess also understandable ... you're supposed to be this crazy badass, and the orcs really only have safety in numbers when it comes to you. So that's when the game really shines, when you get 1 or 2 captains with the reinforcement ability so that the fight always stays populated. THEN the game suddenly takes this whole new track and becomes something else altogether.

Last night, I was trying to repeatedly do this one fight that was super hard. It was a huge shield dude who only existed as a one-off challenge, like not out in the world. He could call reinforcements, started with a retinue of 5 shield-guy bodyguards, and was right outside a stronghold where 3 captains would ALWAYS come out in response to his calls. For whatever reason I could never kill him fast enough to prevent him calling his buddies, and so I had what amounted to a 4-headed nemesis in this group of guys. 3 of them were pretty low level, and the guy unique to that challenge acted as the boss. They killed me 3 or 4 times, getting stronger each time. Eventually I decided to kill all the other captains first, which I did pretty easily, then went back to the big guy ... but he STILL called more captains from other areas, so it just turned into the same thing with a whole different crew.

In the end, the way it played out was a long and drawn out battle that lasted nearly a half hour. I killed no less than 6 captains because they KEPT BRINGING MORE IN. Holy shit. Two of them had reinforcement capabilities, so it was just this cavalcade of faces I knew from other parts of the game. It was so great. I had to repeatedly run away and climb on top of things to get them back into the yellow, then do stealth kills and fast drains to recharge my elf-shot. Then before the next wave could come in, I'd jump back in at the cluster of captains and try to do some damage to one or two at a time while there was enough room to do it. The boss guy was the last orc that I killed, and boy was that a hugely satisfying finishing blow.

THAT is what I wish the game was all the time. Regular enemies have gotten better now that they've introduced the archers, berserkers, trainers, and shield dudes, but they still pose zero threat without a captain around, and most of the captains just aren't scary enough to do anything unless you've got 2 at a minimum.

Obviously one's experience will differ wildly depending on how easy they find the combat, but I'm finding that I really like the game even with those caveats. It's truly fun. I do wish there was more variety in terms of missions, but the fact that so many of them very wisely focus on the captains themselves, it doesn't matter nearly as much that what you're actually doing is repetitive, because you get that constant infusion of character from it. Lots of those "hey, it's THAT guy again" moments.

So yeah, I see why everyone loved this game so much. It deserves all the praise it got. I've even been surprised that the story and world are well done, and seem to draw from a lot of Tolkien lore that really wasn't necessary for what the game is. It's truly appreciated that they went to such great lengths to make the world feel more robust. And the story so far has had memorable characters and a nice mix of seriousness and humor.

I just wish it was moddable so the difficulty could be scaled up. The ranks of the orc captains in my game have way too many bodies lying on the ground all the time, and the game is the most fun for me when the challenge starts to ramp up. In particular, I wish that the regular enemies were more capable, because it's so fun to fuck up and die to a grunt since he'll get promoted. It only happened to me once, but I ignored him for a while and he actually climbed the ranks pretty well by the time I finally got around to him. Like power 7 or 8, I think.

The only sad part was that he insta-died from a single stealth strike. Sorry, dude.

So to those who have played the game ... like how much more stuff unlocks as you progress? It seems new enemy types seem to come as the story moves on, so I'm thinking maybe it's been a mistake to do side stuff as much as I have been until later in the game when the game unlocks more stuff to throw at you.

[MysterD]

So this finally got cheap enough on a sale for me to get it. GOTY edition, I think it was $15? Or $17. So I bit, because I've really wanted to try it out for myself.

SoM: GOTY was a few months ago $12.50 on UPLAY.
And yes, it did provide a Steam key.
https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=middleearthshadowofmordorgameofyearedition

I was tempted, but held off. I already got enough AC-like games to play sitting in my backlog - i.e. AC: Unity & Rogue.
$10 might be my breaking point for this, since I'm already busy w/ Witcher 3 + got other games in my big ole backlog.

EDIT:

And the PC port is super solid. Runs really well (though I guess everything on this new rig kind of does), looks really nice. I'm happy with it.

I'd be curious what kind of settings you're running w/ your rig.
Are you running at the highest setting Ultra that supposedly are recommended for 6GB of VRAM?

[Quemaqua]

At this point, there is no game released that I wouldn't just crank all the way.

[Xessive]

I will avenge you, brother! (Reinstalled)

[MysterD]

At this point, there is no game released that I wouldn't just crank all the way.

[Quemaqua]

haha

I will avenge you, brother!

Solidarity!

Actually, I'm even more pleased with the game since I discovered they have that challenge mode stuff, where you get to keep all your junk but try to kill so many guys within a certain time or meet certain requirements and stuff. Forget what they called it. Anyway, that's super great, I'm looking forward to trying more of those out.

[MysterD]

Eurogamer - "How Monolith Saved Mordor".

This is about some of the troubles of Lith developing Mordor - how WB helped them find some direction; challenges of Nemesis system; and other interesting Behind the Scenes stuff.

[Cobra951]

Thanks for that.  Good read.

[MysterD]

Thanks for that.  Good read.

Glad you enjoyed it.
I also enjoyed it.

[PyroMenace]

I've been putting a decent number of hours into this. It's been really enjoyable, the nemesis system is awesome and the combat is great, and the stealth gameplay is actually surprisingly fun, easy to pull off, and rewarding, but you can tell some missions in this game doesn't fit with what was intended. I'm trying to overcome this one mission where I clean out a den of these nameless crawlers, except the "tutorial to dodge poison attacks" is basically the equivalent of saying "Hey, if you move your head when someone is shooting a bullet to your face, you will dodge it!" on top of that, the boss of these fuckers just sort of counters everything... I googled some guides and its more or less "this fight was fucking stupid broken but I did this cheap ass tactic to beat it" to "all you have to do is hit him but you need every upgrade in the game" is this for real?

[blues]

The complexity of implementing the nemesis system is pretty evident simply based on the fact that it hasn't been aped by 20 other games yet.  We've now had time in development cycles for people to see it, see the success of the game, and start trying to rip it off, implement that, and show their game; however, to my knowledge there really isn't anything out there announced or otherwise that has done so.  Considering how much of the gaming industry, especially at the AAA level is of the "me too" variety, pretty amazing that the primary system in a game this lauded hasn't shown up in everything from Call of Duty to Mario Kart.