Topic: Windows 10 to be free upgrade for Win7/8 owners

[Quemaqua]

Good call, Cobra.

Well, I tried the software I linked to, and it's really nice and extensive. I have no idea if all of this stuff actually works, is the only thing. It looks nice to see that all the telemetry features are disabled ... but are they really? I have no way of knowing.

That said, the list of stuff the app lets you turn on and off is quite extensive. So I sure hope this works as advertised. It's free, and it lets you get rid of a whole ton of unpleasant shit. Also lets you turn off various automatic update options.

[scottws]

Jennie got the Windows desktop computer. I wiped it and installed Windows 10. I haven't heard any complaints, but I barely speak to her so it's not like I'd necessarily hear about them.

We don't use it at work, even in pilot, but that's because our SCCM is version 2007, which only supports Windows 10 LTSB, which is basically like Windows 7.  It has all the new Windows 10 stuff like universal apps, Edge, and Cortana stripped out.  We need to upgrade to the new SCCM version so we can play with real Windows 10.

[MysterD]

Bought a gaming laptop today, which had Win 8.1 installed. Moved it over to W10.
Life is good.

[Cobra951]

The Enterprise version of Windows has always been available only to Microsoft customers with an Enterprise Agreement.  Generally, you are talking about medium and large business only.  You'll never see it on a personal device, and if you do, it's probably an illegitimate version or otherwise in violation of a Microsoft Enterprise Agreement somewhere or the EULA itself.

As an InfoSec professional, I don't see the forced updating as anything but a good thing.  In general, people just cannot be trusted to install security patches and otherwise keep their machines secure.  Sure, there is a small (and very vocal, apparently) percentage of people that want to retain control of the updates for whatever reason, principal mostly.  For them, all I can say is that the only options available to you are to stay on Windows 7 or 8.1 or move to Mac OS X or a Linux distribution.  Be warned that there are rumors that Apple might move Mac OS X to an iOS-like release model and they are already very close in any case.

Edit: Just thought to add that I use Windows 8.1 at work and Mac OS X at home. But I have no problem with Windows 10, including the forced updating or telemetry.

I find it hard to reconcile what I'm reading here with your commentary on preserving the rights of people in their private communications, documents and other personal files.  Somehow, the government wanting control over these is heinous, yet Microsoft is to be unquestioningly trusted in all future decisions regarding the operating system on the computing devices of those same people.  No user control over what precisely that operating system is, and does, amounts to absolute power for Microsoft over the behavior, limits, intrusion potential, and capabilities of the devices relied upon by the entire Windows consumer base.  The problem with benevolent totalitarianism is that one can be sure it will remain totalitarian, but not sure at all that it will remain benevolent (if indeed it ever was to begin with).

The argument is the same in both cases, isn't it?  Regular people are such children.  They can't be trusted to act in their own best interest.  Therefore, a higher authority must intervene and seize that power for the greater good.  You say that only a vocal minority opposes this monumental  power play?  If that is the case, what a shame.  What a tragic shame.

[scottws]

I'd like to start my response to saying that I respect your opinion.  As I said, there are some people that don't like the changes that Microsoft has done with Windows 10, specifically with regards to the forced updates and the telemetry.  People in that group, e.g. you, have a right to your opinion.  I just don't share it.

I do have a question about the forced update antagonism because it is something I have a tough time wrapping my head around.  What, exactly, is the problem with it?  I've had my (non work) Windows machines set to auto-update since forever to close security vulnerabilities automatically.  Were you planning on keeping your computer out-of-date and insecure and if so, why would you want to do that on purpose?  Do you feel similarly with regards to forced updates on Xbox One?  Or it the issue simply the feeling that you've lost control over something you used to have more control over?  These are honest questions coming from curiosity.  I'm not trying to start an argument.

With regards to the comparison of my opinion about Windows 10 and my opinion about government surveillance, these are two wholly separate issues.  First of all, Microsoft is a corporation peddling products and services.  A person has a choice whether or not to buy those products and services.  You don't have to use Windows 10 if you don't like it for any reason at all.  There are other options out there, including from Microsoft themselves.  I know people hate hearing stuff like that, especially people arguing from a position of principle, but it's true.  Microsoft is only totalitarian if you decide you want to put yourself under their reign, and even then I think using that phrase to describe their Windows 10 policies is incredibly hyperbolic.

This is in high contrast to our government which seeks to run roughshod over the Constitution in order to consolidate and fortify its power, at the expense of each and every citizen with seemingly no choice in the matter despite the fact that our government is supposed to be by the people and for the people.

I don't see the two issues as remotely the same thing at all.

[Cobra951]

People have a choice whether to buy computing devices or not, sure.  But it is not a good choice.  The modern world pretty much dictates it in the same sense it dictates having a car.  Not strictly necessary, but life would be harder without one in most American homes.  You say Apple is going in the same direction, so there goes that retort.

I have no personal antagonism with you.  I was a bit taken aback by that assumption, or did I misread you?  Just like you, I feel each one of us is entitled to his opinion on the matter, and that includes you, of course.  You are looking at it from the point of view of an IT professional, and what you have to deal with in your daily life.  Totally understandable.

But I do have a great deal of antagonism against the relentless shift toward removing ownership of computers (in all shapes and sizes) from the buying public.  This is the next step.  Microsoft can slap a boatload of service-not-product labels on what it sells.  If the user still controls his system, it matters little.  It's still his personal system, behaving the way he wants.  Without the ability to prevent remotely triggered changes to his system, he loses that right.

I don't have to go far afield to give you an example of what this would mean.  For the past, what, 6 months? Microsoft has been engaging on a hard sell of Windows 10 to its Windows 7 and 8 customers.  The nagware comes through Windows update.  Anyone with automatic updates enabled has been suffering through it for months.  Fortunately for users who control the changes to their systems actively, the specific updates that bring down this pest can be blocked.  That would not be possible under Windows 10.  In fact, it wouldn't happen at all under Windows 10, because Microsoft would just inform you that your OS is about to change drastically, and then force the change on you within a specific time window.  They don't have to ask your permission anymore.

My opposition is more than just principle.  By allowing Microsoft to dictate without recourse what our systems will be and what they will do at any given time, we are giving up a lot of personal control.  We are giving up all our ownership rights.

[Xessive]

I just found out how to move Windows Store installed apps (including games) to another drive.

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/move-windows-10-apps-other-drive-change-install-location

[Cobra951]

Unstoppable Windows-10 updates spoil this pro gaming stream.  Like I said, more than just principle.  There are dire real-world consequences.

[scottws]

Your qualification for what counts as a dire real-world consequence is clearly different than mine.  Besides, Windows 10 upgrade notices are absolutely not "unstoppable" (I know, that's the random website's word and not yours):

• https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351
• https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

I find these "Windows 10 update popup ruined x!" stories showing up everywhere are a little ridiculous.  Has there never been an error message from some random program or an AV definition update notice popping up on a restaurant menu, digital sign, video stream, or presentation before?  Don't tell me no, I see all kinds of pop up boxes on digital signage all the time.

The amount of FUD surrounding Windows 10 is ridiculous and goes way beyond anything I saw with Vista.

[Xessive]

I just set up the Windows 10 Anniversary Update on my main PC and my Surface. I was curious to see the desktop and tablet experiences as they were intended.

It's got a lot of refinements but it's an incremental update as opposed to an overhaul, yet it does have some substantial changes visually and functionally.

Much to my appreciation, there's finally a Dark Mode! Yeeeeeah! No more white Windows!

Tablet Mode finally gets the full screen experience back, which was oddly missing in Win10.

Anyway, you can check out the full feature list at Windows Central:
http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-anniversary-update

[scottws]

I only have Windows 10 at work and we are running 1511 with the Defer Updates option enabled.  So I don't have this yet.

[Xessive]

I only have Windows 10 at work and we are running 1511 with the Defer Updates option enabled.  So I don't have this yet.

It's worth checking out on a personal system before launching it on the work units.

One thing they added to the Windows Update schedule now is the ability to set "Active Hours" so it will not update or run any automated tasks during these hours. Of course you can also forgo automatic updates completely with the Defer Updates option, as you mentioned.

I haven't delved into its inner workings yet but it seems to tackle most gripes people had about Windows 10 in general. I'm still going through its ins and outs but I'm pretty happy so far.

I know it's superficial, but the Dark Mode really caters to me

[Quemaqua]

I set up a couple laptops for my niece and nephew, and boy was that a nightmare. The most fun part was when Windows didn't recognize changes made to user accounts through Control Panel in Settings, or visa versa, so my niece was both an administrator for some things and not for others.

EDIT - Idol also pointed this out: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/xbox-one-controllers-and-windows-10-pcs-its-all-a-mess-right-now/

[Cobra951]

I was going to post that link in your edit.  The mess extends to more than just Xbox pads.  It seems to affect all controllers.  The recommendation for controller users is to avoid Anniversary for now, and revert to the previous Win10 version if already installed.

[MysterD]

EDIT - Idol also pointed this out: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/xbox-one-controllers-and-windows-10-pcs-its-all-a-mess-right-now/

WTH, Microsoft?

[Xessive]

Woah.. I've got Win 10 Anniversary installed on 4 systems (2 of which use gamepads) and I haven't experienced any of these issues at all.

One thing I did though is install the Xbox Accessories app and used it to update my Xbox One controllers' firmware. That could be why I'm not seeing any of these issues.

Mind you, I am using 3 different types of controllers (depending on which needs charging I swap them out):

-Xbox One
-Xbox 360 (wireless)
-DualShock 4 (with and without software to emulate X360 gamepad)

All of them work fine, but the Xbox One controller doesn't work with Telltale games (except Batman), but that's because Telltale never added compatibility for them, for some stupid reason.

I've also been reading about people having freezing issues after the Anniversary update. Which is also shocking. I mean, did Microsoft test this?! I haven't experienced any issues at all, it's been a pretty smooth process and I'm quite happy with the update but damn.

[Cobra951]

In the case of InputMapper (for DS4 controllers, maybe more 3rd-party?), if what I read is correct, it's related to something in Windows opening up all HIDs, and therefore making it impossible to access one (the controller, in this case) exclusively.  Someone already came up with a workaround.  Assuming this is just sloppy code and not something intentional, I imagine it will be fixed soon.

One thing I did though is install the Xbox Accessories app and used it to update my Xbox One controllers' firmware. That could be why I'm not seeing any of these issues.

Yes, that is the correct procedure to get the X1 pads working.*  Of course, that does nothing for 3rd-party controllers.

* BTW, the new pads coming out with the Xbox One S will include Bluetooth, not for the Xbox, but specifically for Windows-10 PCs (and I imagine other Windows-10 devices).

[Quemaqua]

Latest Windows 10 update reset a ton of my settings, disabled system restore points which had been enabled prior, reset my default browser from Opera (and now won't let me re-select it), and broke several programs and a whole ton of shortcuts.

Someone please tell me Linux will be able to reliably run Windows applications soon.

EDIT - Oh, and not only that, now none of the apps I have will even give me the option to open links in Opera. It's Edge or nothing. Cool.

EDIT x2 - I had a similar problem to this before, and tried several alternative methods to get it working this time. Not sure if the one that finally worked was the one I used before or not. Regardless, had to use a completely different menu system to set things properly. Even though several other programs I have are still working as defaults, they don't show up in the list of defaults. VLC, for instance, doesn't populate properly in 2 of the 3 menu systems you can use to set defaults in Windows 10. The only options are iTunes and WMP. Funny, that.

[Xessive]

That sounds terrible, man! That would certainly irritate the crap out of me.

I'm on the latest version and I haven't come across any issues like that. After the update, it retained my settings and my defaults.

Did the update somehow mess with your registry?

[Quemaqua]

Oh undoubtedly. Lot of the stuff I turned off is stuff Windows absolutely does not want me to turn off and provides no legitimate means of doing so. That, of course, I fully expect, given the company and what they've been doing with the OS. There was a bunch of other stuff it fucked up, though, that it really shouldn't have, even given Microsoft's expectedly bullshit practices.

[Pugnate]

So my new computer is up and running. Very excited. Two issues:

1. Old Windows 10 key not working.

2. Windows 10 is updating automatically. I don't know why this is happening but it has taken away the joy of upgrading my video card drivers etc. :/

[Xessive]

For the key you have to contact Microsoft to activate it on your new hardware.

For the updates, you can disable auto-updates from the Windows Update settings. I think there's a "defer updates" option or something.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[PyroMenace]

If you have an nvidia card be forewarned, the new Geforce Experience update is fucking awful. I mean I get it, they made their own way of streaming games and that's cool and all, but when they're adding it's own fucking overlay onto every game then we're done, immediate uninstall. It's trying to become its own service now and it's intrusive as all hell.

[W7RE]

If you have an nvidia card be forewarned, the new Geforce Experience update is fucking awful. I mean I get it, they made their own way of streaming games and that's cool and all, but when they're adding it's own fucking overlay onto every game then we're done, immediate uninstall. It's trying to become its own service now and it's intrusive as all hell.

I was wondering why I hadn't noticed this, so I opened GeForce Experience to check. Gamestream, Share, and Virtual Reality are all unavailable to me because I don't meet the system requirements lol. You need a 600 series or higher and I've got a 460.

[Pugnate]

Xessive, thank you. Microsoft reactivated my key. How awesome!

[Xessive]

Any time, dude!

The GeForce Experience stuff was quite annoying but it can be disabled from the settings. I like it because of the direct driver download but I generally avoid its other features.

At one point, NVIDIA were going make it the exclusive way to get drivers going forward. You would basically be forced to install it in order to download drivers. Of course, due to the inevitable backlash they seem to have rethought that plan.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Pugnate]

I have to admit it is kinda cool that Windows 10 keeps all the drivers updated and all.

What's The GeForce Experience?

[Xessive]

I have to admit it is kinda cool that Windows 10 keeps all the drivers updated and all.

What's The GeForce Experience?

http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience

[scottws]

For the updates, you can disable auto-updates from the Windows Update settings. I think there's a "defer updates" option or something.

You're referring to "Defer Upgrades".  That only applies to upgrades between major versions, like RTM to 1511 to whatever the Anniversary Update is.

[Cobra951]

So here I am, after all the philosophical rantings, on a PC which came with Windows 10 Home installed.  Yesterday was a verification of my misgivings about lack of control over your own system.  While I had set the WiFi network to metered, and that did stop updates from downloading, it certainly didn't stop Windows Update from checking forever for them.  I noticed that my CPU use was hovering around 25% in one task.  So I searched, and immediately found a conversation about Update and quad-core CPUs.  So, really, 100% hogging of one core.  Brought up Settings, and sure enough, Update was stuck forever trying to download stuff.

So I thought I should let it do its thing unencumbered, and removed the metered restriction.  No help.  It was just stuck at this point.  Restarting the system didn't help either.  So I kept searching, and found I could download the latest cumulative update as a standalone, which I did.  I let that install, then checked the update history.  It said it failed to install about half a dozen times. 

Now I thought I was really FUBAR.  Windows Update was still trying with no seeming progress.  I turned my attention back to the browser for a while, found out I could actually disable the Update service.  When I looked back at the Update status, HEY!  It showed 91% progress in downloading the updates I had already installed (but which were showing as a failed install in update history, even though the system info showed my Windows' build number as the latest under the 1607 update).  Then it went to "install" the updates.  The progress bar jumped to 80% and then to 100%, and it said I was up to date.

I never expected to be allowed to simply disable the Windows Update service.  With all the draconian measures to force updates on consumers, I figured this simple back door would be shut and locked.  Nope.  Just go into services.msc, and get some respite from this pest for however long you feel safe with it.  The only "downside" so far is that it takes the app store with it.  Gee, and I was going to buy so many apps. :p

Made a note to myself, so far the only file in my Documents folder:

Windows Update disabled services:

Windows Update - normally Manual (Triggered)
Windows Modules Installer - normally Automatic

Will let you know if the Microsoft police break down my door and seize my system (or anything less dramatic goes awry with my box) as a result.


Edit:  Took some time to re-read this entire thread.  So maybe disabling the BITS service is better?  I'm leaving it as is for now.  Just something else to learn.  Will read up.

I wonder if I can use that tool to download a Windows ISO to have a legit backup of Windows 10.  My key is already activated, though.  I don't know if that's a spoiler.

It's got 1GB, though dxdiag shows 4GB for some reason. It did this in Windows 7 as well.

Way late, but I can now give you the reason: dxdiag is reporting all the memory accessible to your card, which includes shared system RAM.  My 6GB card reads as having 14 GB (LOL!).  The system also reports that I have 8 GB of shared video memory.

.

[MysterD]

Windows 10 could be getting some kind of "Game Mode" in a future update:
http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-may-be-getting-a-new-game-mode-option/?utm_content=bufferaff3d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

A recent discovery by Twitter user WalkingCat indicates that Windows 10 may be getting something called a "Game Mode" as part of the upcoming Creators Update. The leaked build 14997 of the software contains a new "gamemode.dll" file, which WalkingCat theorizes will enable Windows to adjust its resource allocations to prioritize games when the mode is enabled.

The feature isn't working at this point, but Windows Central says it will function similarly to the Xbox OS, which allocates resources to ensure that games run as well as they possibly can. Despite being a good (and obvious) idea, that's a feature that so far hasn't been supported by Windows.

Beyond the fact that the new dll exists, Game Mode at this point is questions across the board. Will it work automatically, or be a user-selected option? Will it support older Win32 games from other platforms, like Steam, or will it be exclusive to Universal Windows Platform? Could it require particular hardware of some sort? Anything that boosts PC gaming performance is okay by me, but if the focus is too narrow—which is to say, if it's locked to UWP—then I have to wonder just how much of an impact it will have over the long run.

I've reached out to Microsoft for more information about the new mode, and will update if I receive a reply.

Update: In response to my inquiry, Microsoft sent over a brief statement saying that it has "nothing to share at this time."

[MysterD]

PC Gamer - Microsoft turns off AMD Ryzen + Intel Kaby Lake updates & support for Win 7+8.1:
http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-turns-off-windows-781-updates-for-ryzen-and-kaby-lake/

So, if you are going w/ AMD Ryzen or Intel's Kaby Lake, going forward you will need Windows 10.   

[Cobra951]

Win7 lovers, stick with Skylake, I guess.  Kaby Lake is mostly optimization, not truly a next gen.  But, Ryzen . . .

Dirty, dirty pool.

[Xessive]

Oh dick move!

[scottws]

MS is really using its whole tool belt to get people onto Windows 10.  We anticipated this last year and I informed our guy that does the workstation acquisition to identify systems that either were pre-Skylake or were on the list of approved Skylake systems and to only purchase systems from that list.  Anything else can't be supported until we are prepared to upgrade to Windows 10.

[Cobra951]

This guy gets it.

[Cobra951]

Same guy again.  Windows 10 S.  Oh, boy!  Here it comes.  This is a severely locked-down version of Windows 10, not the "special" "extra-nice" that an 'S' after the name would have most of us thinking.  It runs only apps bought through the store, browses the net only with Edge, and searches the net only with Bing.  It is now the standard version of Windows on the new Surface laptops.  Their spin is security, but what you get is basically the same kind of walled-garden environment found on consoles and smartphones.  You can spend an extra $50 to unlock it (for now).

It shouldn't take the help of a tinfoil hat to see where this might lead.  Most people don't know how to prevent updates to their copies of Windows 10.  As Jerry says in the video, the circle is slowly closing in.  The new Creator's update will bring back the OS's default settings.  Maybe this time, you'll really stick to Edge and Cortana.  Slowly . . .

[Quemaqua]

What a bunch of horseshit.

[PyroMenace]

I don't get it...  this is going to lead to all versions of Windows to only use Edge and Bing? It would be the downfall of the OS, no one would implement it in their business or even personal use. This is simply a macbook competitor, which I dont think will get far off the ground at all.

[Cobra951]

I sure hope it goes nowhere.  The scary part is that Microsoft have actually created a closed version of Windows for the so-far-open x86 PC platform.  Not phones, not tablets; full-fledged PCs.  It's like that salesman on your front porch who managed to get his foot in your doorway, and now you can't close the door.  How hard is he going to push the door back at you?  Don't know yet.  I can imagine a financially alluring path to locked PCs, with the intent of gaining enough of the market this way to make punitive measures against open PCs affordable [for Microsoft], and ratchet up the pressure toward their lucrative ecosystem.  (An example of a punitive measure is dropped support for Ryzen and anything after Skylake on Windows versions before 10).

Holdouts would be folks like us and businesses.  The latter can afford a much higher price for open versions of Windows.

.